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Why Do We Get Onto the Rich About Taxes?

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by Saucy, Nov 24, 2017.

  1. Saucy

    Saucy CF's resident Norse Irishman Supporter

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    It seems everywhere I look these days, the left is constantly wanting new entitlements. When those of us on the right say we can't afford that stuff, we're told that we just need to increase taxes on the wealthy.

    "They just need to pay their fair share!" they say, as if the rich aren't paying enough. But that doesn't match up with reality.

    In fact, the top 40% of earners in this country pay 106% of the taxes! The bottom 40% pay -9%. Yes, you read that right. NEGATIVE NINE PERCENT!

    Those on the top tax bracket paid 69% of all the taxes.

    Top 40% paying ALL income taxes, and leaving a tip

    The reason why the lower 40% pay negative taxes is the tax credits and other benefits they get from the government. So, I'm wondering, as a capitalist who believes people should get to keep more of what they earn, why we need to keep placing an even larger and larger burden on those who the money and are already keeping everything afloat as it is.

    We already have many entitlements, grants, and tax breaks for those making less. Why do we need to keep giving them more and more?
     
  2. Aldebaran

    Aldebaran Star Power!

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    It seems to be mostly a symptom of envy in this world. The poor and middle class see that they don't have something someone has who makes more than them, and so they feel that they were somehow cheated out of it. We don't hear that as much as poor saying it about the middle class though, because that wouldn't be as popular of a message with the MSM due to it being such a large class, although the middle class could easily be seen by the lower class to have so much more.
     
  3. Saucy

    Saucy CF's resident Norse Irishman Supporter

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    yeah that's the only thing I can think of. I can't tell you how many times my own faith was questioned because I don't think we should raise the taxes on the rich to give even more to the poor, as if the poor are entitled to anything more than what they get. They already get free health insurance, free transportation, free college, food stamps, tax credits, and other forms of welfare. That's not enough for them apparently.
     
  4. Aldebaran

    Aldebaran Star Power!

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    Correct. I mean, I believe in a welfare program to a certain degree, but there has to be a limit to it.
     
  5. Saucy

    Saucy CF's resident Norse Irishman Supporter

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    I know people who refuse to get jobs because they might lose some of their welfare benefits or their food stamps might get cut. I also believe in helping the needy, but they've become so complacent and comfortable getting by on government assistance that they don't even try.
     
  6. Rion

    Rion "Trigger Warning" is one of my triggers Supporter

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    1. They're easy to demonize.
    2. They're a minority.
    3. It's easy to find instances of rich people being jerks.
    4. What leftists mean when they say 'fair share' increasingly means equality of outcome, not opportunity.
    5. State sponsored welfare means they don't have to personally take responsibility and be involved.
     
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  7. Multifavs

    Multifavs CF's Multi-Named Knightess Supporter

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    I've never heard about anything that has been said here. All I've heard is that the rich can afford to pay more taxes and won't be struggling if they do, while the poor can't afford to pay more taxes and will be in trouble if they do.
    I agree that people shouldn't be abusing the forms of welfare there are, but at the same time there are many poorer people who could not survive without them. Some of them can't get a job and the welfare is all they have for support.
     
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  8. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It is easy to demonize this group as well. But one should do that with knowledge.

    Cash Assistance Caseload
    A total of 1.6 million families, composed of 4.1 million recipients,
    received TANF - or MOE - funded cash in March 2015 . The bulk of the “recipients” were children — 2.9 million in that month. The cash assistance caseload is heterogeneous. The type of family historically thought of as the “typical” cash assistance family — one with an unemployed adult recipient — accounted for less than half (45%) of all families on the rolls in FY201 3. Additionally, 17% of cash assistance families had an employed adult, while 38% of all TANF
    families were “child=only” and had no adult recipient. Child-only families include those with disabled adults receiving Supplemental Security Income (SSI), adults who are nonparents (e.g., grandparents, aunts, uncles) caring for children, and families consisting of citizen children and ineligible noncitizen parents.

    Some of this necessity for children is do to an absent parent not paying child support. In many cases this money is reclaimed by the state through withholding income tax refunds and garnishing future wages. I know a guy who had to pay $3,600 to the state 20 yrs later. The original amount that the state provided to his two children was $1,200.
     
  9. Saucy

    Saucy CF's resident Norse Irishman Supporter

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    Well, I often think about it like this:

    If it weren't for the rich, no one would have jobs. They pay for the salaries of everyone who works for them. Many companies also pay for insurance for their employees, pay for them to go to school, and give them many benefits. No one would have anything if it wasn't for rich people paying them to do a job.

    The rich also donate a lot of money to charity and what you don't often hear, they pay MORE than all of the taxes. But now people want more stuff. They want free college, free healthcare for all, free everything. The government is $20 trillion in debt. Our infrastructure is falling apart. Our military equipment is falling apart. We pay over $100 billion each year to take care of illegal immigrants. We send billions and even trillions of dollars overseas in aid packages. If there's a disaster anywhere in the world, the Americans are usually the first ones there on the ground to help.

    I just think we should let people choose to do more with their money rather than forcing it through taking more taxes.
     
  10. Babe Ruth

    Babe Ruth Member

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    Amen. And I think as Christians we hope that people will share their wealth with less fortunate neighbors.
    But that doesn't necessarily mean we trust the government to facilitate that transfer of wealth. It should be more voluntary. And punitive taxes, collected by irresponsible/wasteful government agencies isn't the ideal paradigm.

    People able to retain more of their earnings, giving to more efficient charities would be ideal.. but things are what they are in 21st century America.
     
  11. pakicetus

    pakicetus sternodraugaz

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    bc they don't need the money and other people do. There are lots of other reasons but that's the most important one.
     
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  12. Doug Melven

    Doug Melven Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion those who want to grant welfare know that the people will take it, and if they take it, the government gets control of them because they are dependent on the government.
    When everyone is completely dependent on the government the left will drop the hammer and we will be a totalitarian state.
    That is also why the left wants to take guns away from the people. They don't want anybody fighting back
     
  13. Strathos

    Strathos No one important

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  14. FenderTL5

    FenderTL5 Well-Known Member

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    math.

    The bottom line doesn't always tell the story.
    Citizen A makes $100 and pays $10 in taxes.
    Citizen B makes $1,000,000 and pays $100 in taxes.
    Who paid more?

    The article is only addressing federal income tax. Many, maybe even most, who get every nickle back that was paid in federal income tax still pay payroll taxes, sales taxes, state & local taxes, gas taxes. If they happen to be fortunate enough to buy property/house they will pay property taxes. As a percentage of income, many low income people will pay more than the wealthy who take advantage of numerous mechanism to exclude wealth from taxation.


    As it applies to giving, this math principle has been addressed.
     
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  15. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    Well there's stuff like this...

    Paradise Papers Shine Light on Where the Elite Keep Their Money

    You know, the trillions of dollars they hide under avoid paying taxes.
     
  16. Saucy

    Saucy CF's resident Norse Irishman Supporter

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    And why do they do this? Because more and more the left believes they're entitled to the money other people make. Like Trump said, if their taxes are lower, then they'll bring more of their own money back and won't feel the need to hide their money.
     
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  17. Saucy

    Saucy CF's resident Norse Irishman Supporter

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    Technically, in your scenario, the person who made $100 paid more. They paid a higher percentage, but that's not the case in real life either. The rich are paying much higher percentages.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    Trump's a moron. There's exactly zero evidence that if you give the wealthy more money it benefits everyone else. It only benefits the wealthy.

    If I cheated on my taxes to the tune of millions of dollars, they'd throw me in jail for a decade...and that's exactly what should happen to the very wealthy who cheat on their taxes. Let some of them rot and die in prison then we'll see what the rest of them do.
     
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  19. FenderTL5

    FenderTL5 Well-Known Member

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    This chart still only addresses the individual, federal income tax. It does not include the regressive taxes that tend to hammer working families like sales tax which some will pay on 100% of their incomes.
     
  20. PreviouslySeeking...

    PreviouslySeeking... Member

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    You're right. I don't want to tax the rich more. I just want to cut military spending & corporate welfare. That will cover what we need.
     
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