It's not hypocrisy unless I actually claim that I am not sneering at you. I never said I wasn't sneering at you. I never said I was either. That would be rude.
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It's not hypocrisy unless I actually claim that I am not sneering at you. I never said I wasn't sneering at you. I never said I was either. That would be rude.Ah yes, I am ridiculous, but you are not sneering at me, I am supposedly sneering at you. Such hypocrisy.
I know what death means, and it doesn't mean "continue to live forever". I just use the dictionary to try to get you to understand what death means.Unlike Timothew, I am not relying on the dictionary for theological concepts. I know of no dictionary that takes any theological stance on death.
Sneering won't help your case, Tim.Would a bible verse work, or does it have to be from an atheist's dictionary?
This clearly states that the soul is not destroyed in the first death, which completely contradicts your whole case, as FWG said. You never answered his question, what happens to the soul after the first death, since Matthew 10:28 makes it clear that people cannot destroy the soul by killing someone in the first death?How about Matthew 10:28?
Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Welcome back from a self proclaimed excile. Appears you have had a change of heart.No Norah,
That is not the reason that I don't believe in eternal torture in Hell. A plain reading of scripture shows that the result of sin is death, not eternal torture in hell. Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Those who believe in Jesus Christ receive eternal life and those who do not believe do not receive eternal life. Those who reject Jesus Christ will perish and those who do not reject Jesus Christ will not perish.
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."
This is what the Scriptures say, and I do not believe in eternal torture in hell because I believe what the scriptures say.
I did answer his question. Both body and soul are destroyed in the second death. Just as Jesus said, and I agree with him.Sneering won't help your case, Tim.
This clearly states that the soul is not destroyed in the first death, which completely contradicts your whole case, as FWG said. You never answered his question, what happens to the spirit after the first death, since Matthew 10:28 makes it clear that people cannot destroy the soul by killing someone in the first death?
I would think that also....
It starts to get ridiculous, doesn't it?
I also drink the same water that atheists drink and breathe the same air.
I'm just saying what scriptures say. The wages of sin is death. People perish or they have eternal life. They do not have both.Welcome back from a self proclaimed excile. Appears you have had a change of heart.
We have been over this ground before. What the "scriptures says" is debated and we agree to disagree. My post to Nora goes to why people would look to scripture to find an answer they wish to find in the first place.
I still maintain if people did not think God has a problem with suffering, especially eternal suffering then there would be no need to seek justification in "what scripture says" to solve the imagined problem for God.
If you are honest with yourself you will admit that you sneer at me far more than I sneer at you. You want to claim that objective arguments are sneering because that is the only why you have of dismissing them, but that is a polemic technique rather than an attempt at getting at the truth.It's not hypocrisy unless I actually claim that I am not sneering at you. I never said I wasn't sneering at you. I never said I was either. That would be rude.
Are you intentionally trying to be deceptive? The question was about the first death, not the second death. Can you read? You've been asked this same question repeatedly. Or are you just trying to twist out of an uncomfortable question like a shifty politician?I did answer his question. Both body and soul are destroyed in the second death. Just as Jesus said, and I agree with him.
As I said, simply claiming scripture says something to justify holding one's beliefs about hell does not address the reason one thinks it must be so. This is especially true when the bulk of all Christians from the beginning would disagree with this claim about "what scriptures say".I'm just saying what scriptures say. The wages of sin is death. People perish or they have eternal life. They do not have both.
The first death is death, where the person is dead until he is resurrected by Jesus Christ at his return. I told him that. The destruction of the body and soul occurs at the second death. I told him that. It is only in your imagination that I am acting like a shifty polititian. I answered his question, you didn't like it. Oh well. Then you insulted me.Are you intentionally trying to be deceptive? The question was about the first death, not the second death. Can you read? You've been asked this same question repeatedly. Or are you just trying to twist out of an uncomfortable question like a shifty politician?
Well, then you got the "root cause" wrong, in my case.As I said, simply claiming scripture says something to justify holding one's beliefs about hell does not address the reason one thinks it must be so. This is especially true when the bulk of all Christians from the beginning would disagree with this claim about "what scriptures say".
So rather than continue making yes it does, no it does not taunts against one another about "what scripture says", I still prefer to address the root cause for the disagreement, which is the imagined problem God has with suffering and especially eternal suffering.
Good luck getting an answer.Are you intentionally trying to be deceptive? The question was about the first death, not the second death. Can you read? You've been asked this same question repeatedly. Or are you just trying to twist out of an uncomfortable question like a shifty politician?
You still haven't answered the question of what happens to the soul and spirit after the first death?The first death is death, where the person is dead until he is resurrected by Jesus Christ at his return. I told him that.
Alright, I apologize if you felt insulted, but you are still evading the question. I can only surmise that you don't have an answer. What else do you expect me to think?The destruction of the body and soul occurs at the second death. I told him that. It is only in your imagination that I am acting like a shifty polititian. I answered his question, you didn't like it. Oh well. Then you insulted me.
So you get your theology from a dictionary? No wonder you're theology is so insightful!
I gave an answer. I answered the question. Why do you say "good luck getting an answer as if he had not gotten an answer?Good luck getting an answer.
Ok, so you never in your lifetime believed in the orthodox view of Hell. It is hard to keep track of al the varied beliefs and stories here. I thought your belief in this had changed, which BTW is not an uncommon story in UT. My bad.Well, then you got the "root cause" wrong, in my case.
Yeah, I don't think he is going to answer about what he thinks happens to the soul and spirit after the first death either. He has put too much effort into avoiding the question at all costs to give in now.Good luck getting an answer.
I tried some time back and the best I could do is get a response describing the afterlife before Judgment which really left me with seeing no discernable difference between that state and the state described as "annihilation" after Judgment. However, when I stated that the two states were equally "non-existent" I was accused of falsely portraying the view of another.
I agree with your assessment that even if not an outright denial of the existence of a human soul, this view essentially makes the soul/spirit meaningless and unessential aspect of Christianity, and in that aspect no different than the atheist saying when die, we are just dead. Which is pretty much the response I got when asked to explain the afterlife prior to resurrection for Judgment.
Have asked repeatedly for an explanation of how the states (before resurrection for Judgment and after being thrown in Hell) WERE NOT equal and never got an answer. I doubt one is forthcoming here.
You still haven't answered the question of what happens to the soul and spirit after the first death?
Alright, I apologize if you felt insulted, but you are still evading the question. I can only surmise that you don't have an answer. What else do you expect me to think?
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