Why do some denominations not believe in Once Saved, Always Saved?

[Gibs]

Did you miss the point entirely? No one is against works. Everyone believes that performing works of love is Christ-like and what a disciple ought to do. Whether or not this earns you salvation is the question.

Sure, what matters is whether we have found and fulfilled the Way He has made.

That is not any other way that man has conjured up

 

[Rick Otto]

Sure, what matters is whether we have found and fulfilled the Way He has made.

That is not any other way that man has conjured up

I found, I fulfilled,... I saved. Yeah me.

 

[Gibs]

I found, I fulfilled,... I saved. Yeah me.

He leadeth me!

1Jo 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
1Jo 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
1Jo 2:28 ¶ And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
1Jo 2:28 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

And any honest sheep will eventually come to the conclusion that we don't always do sheep works, and when we don't we are doing goat works.

Jesus is very specific about what separates the sheep from the goats. You can read it yourself if you don't understand in Matt 25.

 

[mark kennedy]

Jesus is very specific about what separates the sheep from the goats. You can read it yourself if you don't understand in Matt 25.

Did you know Jesus is the only one who discusses hell? It's mentioned a few other places but nothing like this:

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ (Matt. 25:41-42)​

The mark of discipleship is the fruit of the Spirit, Jesus goes on for several chapters about this:

By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. (John 13: 35)​

How you treat believers is something God takes personally.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[squint]

Jesus is very specific about what separates the sheep from the goats. You can read it yourself if you don't understand in Matt 25.

Sorry to tell you but all believers do goat works now and then if not more often than sheep works.

 

[Gibs]

To be a goat is very undesirable, we must be one of His little sheep of His fold,

Mt 25:31 ¶ When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mt 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mt 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mt 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

 

[squint]

To be a goat is very undesirable, we must be one of His little sheep of His fold,

Mt 25:31 ¶ When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mt 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mt 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mt 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

In order to avoid being a goat one must continually and only do sheep works. Anyone who sez that is all they do are probably lying.

IN any case they are two separate animals, goats and sheep. No one is turned from being a goat to a sheep or vice versa.

The real test involved in the parable however is honesty.

If anyone reads the parable and 'exempts themselves' from doing goatworks, they are in fact DECEIVED already. Not to mention dishonest.

s

 

[Gibs]

In order to avoid being a goat one must continually and only do sheep works. Anyone who sez that is all they do are probably lying.

IN any case they are two separate animals, goats and sheep. No one is turned from being a goat to a sheep or vice versa.

The real test involved in the parable however is honesty.

If anyone reads the parable and 'exempts themselves' from doing goatworks, they are in fact DECEIVED already. Not to mention dishonest.

s

There is no free pass into Heaven for any continuing in sin and He will make none an android, a robot, He has made us all free to chose Heaven or eternal death.

Love alone can fulfill the law and we need to test ourselves as if we are measuring up. The law first must be in our hearts that it too will be our law of love as it is our God's.

It is not galling or grating to do what we love to do and this is the same of the Law of Love of God. The first 4 to our God who first loved us and then to our fellow man the last 6.

To say we have love and not doing His will we should then know and realize that we have fallen short of the love we must have.

Then the question, How can we grow in Love enough to please Him.

The answer is, by beholding Him who first loved us enough of God the Father not only giving of Him self to come down from Heaven to dwell in Jesus Christ made of Woman in the fullness of time but to give to us His one and only beloved begotten Son to die in our place for our sin and pardon us and credit His merits and white robe to us.

How could He give more? He did this to redeem us from infraction of His law and so now do you think He would abrogate it which it well shows that He is standing by or He would not have paid such a price!

Let us not be foolish but LORD make us wise unto your Salvation!

Ro 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Then to our God,

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

 

[squint]

There is no free pass into Heaven for any continuing in sin and He will make none an android, a robot, He has made us all free to chose Heaven or eternal death.

The continuing claim from you appears to be that you are (and have been since you supposedly were saved) SINLESS.

Most sane believers here would consider such a claim a blatant lie.

So, start with honesty and we'll see where it goes from there.

Have you been sinless since the day you (performed whatever exercise you performed to be born again)

 

[Albion]

There is no free pass into Heaven for any continuing in sin

While I do not think the term 'free pass' is fair or accurate, I certainly do believe that the Bible is correct in teaching that we are forgiven of our sins through Faith.

He will make none an android, a robot

I don't know anyone who has said that he did or that we are such, so that's just a straw man argument.

He has made us all free to chose Heaven or eternal death.

He has made it possible for us to choose, but the issue concerns what happens next. Do you feel that God is faithless enough to let Satan have those who converted through His gift of Grace? I cannot say "yes" to that, no matter how I look at this matter.

 

[Gibs]

The continuing claim from you appears to be that you are (and have been since you supposedly were saved) SINLESS.

Most sane believers here would consider such a claim a blatant lie.

So, start with honesty and we'll see where it goes from there.

Have you been sinless since the day you (performed whatever exercise you performed to be born again)

Do you actually think Jesus would tell anyone to go and do something He hasn't enabled us to do? Check these,

Joh 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
Joh 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

Folks, we just need to pick up on His enabling and that is Christ in you, the HOPE of Glory!

 

[squint]

Do you actually think Jesus would tell anyone to go and do something He hasn't enabled us to do? Check these,

Joh 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
Joh 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

Folks, we just need to pick up on His enabling and that is Christ in you, the HOPE of Glory!

There was a simple question posed to you that only requires a yes or no response.

Here is how it works.

Am I a sinner? Yes.

Are you a sinner?

 

[Albion]

Do you actually think Jesus would tell anyone to go and do something He hasn't enabled us to do? Check these,

Joh 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
Joh 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

Folks, we just need to pick up on His enabling and that is Christ in you, the HOPE of Glory!

And you're t taking that wording to be some sort of a guarantee rather than an admonition? :o

 

[Gibs]

While I do not think the term 'free pass' is fair or accurate, I certainly do believe that the Bible is correct in teaching that we are forgiven of our sins through Faith.


I don't know anyone who has said that he did or that we are such, so that's just a straw man argument.


He has made it possible for us to choose, but the issue concerns what happens next. Do you feel that God is faithless enough to let Satan have those who converted through His gift of Grace? I cannot say "yes" to that, no matter how I look at this matter.

That is right, we are not made to comply, we must choose it from the heart! Never will He make us an android!

The straw man is the theology that we are given a free pass, when it is clear, we must be overcomers.

No we cannot of ourselves do anything, we must have Christ dwelling within and that takes a full and complete surrender, nothing withheld and most will not come to be fully broken upon Him.

Christ in you is the only hope of Glory and then we can do all things, including being and overcomer.

Read these verses well,

Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
Col 1:29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

 

[Tellastory]

Why do some denominations, such as the Church of God, not believe in Once Saved Always Saved, even though the Bible clearly outlines that salvation is eternal? That is, salvation is by grace through faith and it is something that cannot be taken from you.

While I believe that grace covers such Christians and that they are genuinely saved for putting their faith in the Lord, Jesus Christ, it must be somewhat troublesome to think that backsliding will result in you becoming detached from the Lord. It seems like it would hinder someone's growth in the Lord rather than promote obedience.

The thing is that God chooses us and we respond. He doesn't let go of us once we're a Child of God.

Sometimes it seems like such denominations haven't viewed the Bible in its entire scope, interpreting. What is your take on this subject?

As you say, one should take the whole Bible in account to see the truth on the subject, but problems arises when changed meanings in some parts of the Bible.. like 1 Corinthians 1:18 of the NIV having it as "being saved" instead of "are saved" as in the KJV, then doubt comes in regarding that topic.

Then you have those that use scriptural references on how God is going to judge His House and those that fail to depart from iniquity are left behind at the pre trib rapture event when the Bridegroom comes, thinks the scripture on those left behind were never saved and others think those professed believers are "fake believers" and are going to hell.

So the problem is Bible version: I recommend the KJV for having the final say and rely on Jesus Christ as your Good Shepherd to show you why.

And the other is leaning on Jesus to discern those scriptural references as to why many errant believers think OSAS is not true to see that it is about how God will judge His House at the pre trib rapture event to see why those left behind are still His in spite of it as they are the vessels unto dishonour in His House to be received later after the great tribulation

Matthew 18:11-14 & John 6:39-40 & 2 Timothy 2:10-13 & 2 Timothy 2:18-21 & 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 & Hebrews 12th chapter & 1 Peter 4:17-19

 

[Albion]

That is right, we are not made to comply, we must choose it from the heart! Never will He make us an android!

I don't think this "android" comparison is helpful. When we respond to God's grace, I suppose we could say that we're being drawn against our will, but I don't think that's an accurate way of putting it. Still, it's what happens thereafter ("OSAS") that's the topic of this thread, I believe.

No we cannot of ourselves do anything, we must have Christ dwelling within and that takes a full and complete surrender, nothing withheld and most will not come to be fully broken upon Him.

Do I understand you correctly to say that we must decide whether or not to accept God's grace? If so, I can't agree. How could a sin-dimmed, damaged, confused, being like the human make such a decision? It sounds so simple to say, but when you think about it a little, it would be like a primitive tribesman comprehending a radio and making a good judgment about it, having never seen or heard of one.

 

[Gibs]

I don't think this "android" comparison is helpful. When we respond to God's grace, I suppose we could say that we're being drawn against our will, but I don't think that's an accurate way of putting it. Still, it's what happens thereafter ("OSAS") that's the topic of this thread, I believe.


Do I understand you correctly to say that we must decide whether or not to accept God's grace? If so, I can't agree. How could a sin-dimmed, damaged, confused, being like the human make such a decision? It sounds so simple to say, but when you think about it a little, it would be like a primitive tribesman comprehending a radio and making a good judgment about it, having never seen or heard of one.

It remains a truth that we are deciding our destiny in the here and now.

Will we choose life or will we choose death. It is not of obedience of works alone that will suffice, it is love that works by faith that alone can.

 

[Albion]

It remains a truth that we are deciding our destiny in the here and now.

Are we? Or are we incapable of determining that on our own?

Will we choose life or will we choose death. It is not of obedience of works alone that will suffice, it is love that works by faith that alone can.

The saved will, of course, choose life and goodness, but that doesn't owe to their own abilities or judgment, nor does such activity determine their eternal destiny. It is already determined when we engage in a Christ-like lifestyle.

 

[Gibs]

Are we? Or are we incapable of determining that on our own?


The saved will, of course, choose life and goodness, but that doesn't owe to their own abilities or judgment, nor does such activity determine their eternal destiny. It is already determined when we engage in a Christ-like lifestyle.

No, none not one is predestined for life or death! That premise would not even be logical!

It is HOW we have determined to engage a Christ like life style. Too many want to make it their way which is not His Way at all. Too many have made it that continuing as they are will suffice.