Why do some Christians...

[MoonlightFlower]

...try to enforce their beliefs into America's laws? Didn't your "God" give EVERY human on this planet free will to choose if they want to sin or not?

 

[HypnoToad]

Most people, Christian or not, try to "enforce their beliefs" into law. Most people do not vote in support for laws they disagree with. Most, if not all, laws are based on people's beliefs. Look at theft, murder, kidnapping. Would we have laws against those things of most people didn't believe those things were wrong? Should we repeal those laws because they have a moral basis?

 

[JimfromOhio]

Good Question.

Sin is controlling the world and christian laws cannot stop it. In my view, democracy is a form of government which legislative decisions are made by the people themselves or by representatives who act through the consent of the people. Theocracy (i.e. Christian) is a form of government in which a religion and the government are allied. So, by form of government, we are NOT a Christian nation however America was created with the influence of Christian people as well as non-christians. Our form of government offers people the ability to exercise their faith freely and without interference from the government. To be fair to all faiths, our government is set up to not establish a state religion. This includes promoting one religion over another. Faith is something that individuals must accept or reject. People either take the leap and believe or they do not. It is not something that can be forced.

What is the primary purpose for us Christians need to do? Gospel or government ?

Leave the Government alone and focus on the Gospel--the good news--is that each person, through Jesus Christ, can be forgiven of sin, brought back into fellowship with God, and filled with God’s Spirit for newness of life. Salvation is the bundle of benefits received by the person who believes the Gospel and entrusts his or her life to Christ.

I personally believe Christianity should stay out of politics. I truly believe Jesus didn't want to be involved in government. He didn't when He was alive on earth. He actually stayed out of politics unless He is force to reply to a question regarding government.

But that's one Christian's thoughts !!! Whether you agree or not.

 

[Palatka44]

...try to enforce their beliefs into America's laws? Didn't your "God" give EVERY human on this planet free will to choose if they want to sin or not?

So sinning would be to murder, rob, etc is that what you are advocating? I see no law on the books that you must worship Jesus the Son of God by force of Federal or State law, nor do I see or hear Christians trying to force this ideology through any legislature.
What "sin" do you want to commit that there is a law against?

 

[Westvleteren]

What "sin" do you want to commit that there is a law against?

I want to buy beer on Sundays!

 

[MoonlightFlower]

So sinning would be to murder, rob, etc is that what you are advocating? I see no law on the books that you must worship Jesus the Son of God by force of Federal or State law, nor do I see or hear Christians trying to force this ideology through any legislature.
What "sin" do you want to commit that there is a law against?

What a stupid question.

For one thing, the idea that murder and robery are wrong isn't only just a Christian thing. Pagans, Athiest, Buddhist, etc. also think this.

Now, some examples of the laws I'm talking about are:
~Rights for gays to marry
~Right to have abortion
~Right to buy alchohol on ANY day of the week

 

[Electric Skeptic]

Most people, Christian or not, try to "enforce their beliefs" into law. Most people do not vote in support for laws they disagree with. Most, if not all, laws are based on people's beliefs. Look at theft, murder, kidnapping. Would we have laws against those things of most people didn't believe those things were wrong? Should we repeal those laws because they have a moral basis?

The above simply isn't accurate. Good laws are passed not because they accord with someone's morals, but because they protect citizens which, in turn, protects the state itself. ANY law passed purely on a moral basis is a bad law.

 

[Electric Skeptic]

So sinning would be to murder, rob, etc is that what you are advocating? I see no law on the books that you must worship Jesus the Son of God by force of Federal or State law, nor do I see or hear Christians trying to force this ideology through any legislature.

Many christians are constantly trying to force that ideology through the legislature. Attempts to teach creationism in schools, for example. Apart from that, christians constantly advocate laws to enforce their own (religiously-derived) moral outlook, and denigrate laws that go against that outlook. Just look at how active they are against gay marriage.

What "sin" do you want to commit that there is a law against?

By 'sin', I'm assuming you mean 'thing that is generally viewed by Christians as a sin', and I can think of any number of things that I or others might want to do. Use prostitutes, gamble, public nudity, buy alcohol any time...just about any activity that is illegal but does not actually harm someone other than the doer.

 

[HypnoToad]

The above simply isn't accurate. Good laws are passed not because they accord with someone's morals, but because they protect citizens which, in turn, protects the state itself. ANY law passed purely on a moral basis is a bad law.

How is the decision to protect citezens or the state NOT a moral decision?

 

[Electric Skeptic]

How is the decision to protect citezens or the state NOT a moral decision?

How is it a moral decision? The state, like any organism, protects itself. Nothing moral about it.

 

[HypnoToad]

For one thing, the idea that murder and robery are wrong isn't only just a Christian thing. Pagans, Athiest, Buddhist, etc. also think this.

Now, some examples of the laws I'm talking about are:
~Rights for gays to marry
~Right to have abortion
~Right to buy alchohol on ANY day of the week

So, for which laws are we allowed to use our moral judgement for? Only the ones where everyone agrees?

 

[HypnoToad]

How is it a moral decision? The state, like any organism, protects itself. Nothing moral about it.

"The State" is nothing more than a collection of it's citizens. People vote to protect the State because they are protecting themselves. So, do you believe the decision to protect ourselves is NOT a moral decision??

 

[icy_crusader]

~Rights for gays to marry
~Right to have abortion
~Right to buy alchohol on ANY day of the week

You need to remember that this country was founded and kept strong by its moral base, a moral base influenced by christianity. Not all the founding fathers were christians, but they understood christian morals.
Also, don't confuse rights and priveleges. 'Right' is an overused word in America today. The question is whether gays should be allowed the privelege to wed. Abortion is totally based on the opinion of when a baby is formed and I really have nothing to say about buying alchohol any day of the week. I really see no reason for it.

 

[Electric Skeptic]

So, for which laws are we allowed to use our moral judgement for? Only the ones where everyone agrees?

None. Morals should have nothing to do with laws.

"The State" is nothing more than a collection of it's citizens. People vote to protect the State because they are protecting themselves. So, do you believe the decision to protect ourselves is NOT a moral decision??

No, I woudln't call it a moral decision. It's a decision every organism makes...if it's a moral decision when I make it, it's a moral decision when a cat makes it? A dog? An oyster? It's an instinct - there's not even a decision involved.

 

[RThibeault]

...try to enforce their beliefs into America's laws? Didn't your "God" give EVERY human on this planet free will to choose if they want to sin or not?

What do you mean by enforce my beliefs? I don't nor have I legislate others to believe what I do. I do believe in voting for those whose values are similar to mine, as I am sure most people do. Now if another Christian proposes a law which I tend to agree with because of my personal values then again I will support such laws, as I am sure most people would or should vote.

A Christian might say the same thing, why do non-Christians try to enforce their beliefs into America's laws? Does not every human have the free will to choose to worship "God" or not? It would seem non-Christians don't feel every human has the free will to choose.

If religion is the opiate of the masses, then why can't you allow us to enjoy our religion?

 

[HypnoToad]

None. Morals should have nothing to do with laws.

So, how does one decide what's right and what's wrong without a moral decision?

 

[Electric Skeptic]

You need to remember that this country was founded and kept strong by its moral base, a moral base influenced by christianity. Not all the founding fathers were christians, but they understood christian morals.

The claim that this country was founded and ketp strong by its moral base is one that I find completely unsupported. Certainly, the documents - the declaration of independence, the constitution - don't draw on christian morals.

Also, don't confuse rights and priveleges. 'Right' is an overused word in America today. The question is whether gays should be allowed the privelege to wed. Abortion is totally based on the opinion of when a baby is formed and I really have nothing to say about buying alchohol any day of the week. I really see no reason for it.

The question isn't whether you "really see no reason for it" - the question is what reason is there AGAINST it.

 

[Electric Skeptic]

What do you mean by enforce my beliefs? I don't nor have I legislate others to believe what I do. I do believe in voting for those whose values are similar to mine, as I am sure most people do. Now if another Christian proposes a law which I tend to agree with because of my personal values then again I will support such laws, as I am sure most people would or should vote.

If a non-christian proposes a law which outlaws a practise I find distasteful or immoral, I will NOT support such a law. "I think it's wrong" is NOT a valid basis to illegalise an activity.

A Christian might say the same thing, why do non-Christians try to enforce their beliefs into America's laws? Does not every human have the free will to choose to worship "God" or not? It would seem non-Christians don't feel every human has the free will to choose.

Please show where non-Christians try to enforce their beliefs into America's laws? Please show how non-Christians don't feel every human has the free will to choose?

 

[Electric Skeptic]

So, how does one decide what's right and what's wrong without a moral decision?

Without a moral decision, one can't decide what's MORALLY right and wrong. But the law should have nothign to do with what's MORALLY right and wrong. It should have to do with what's right and wrong in terms of protecting its citizens. Nothing else.

 

[HypnoToad]

No, I woudln't call it a moral decision. It's a decision every organism makes...if it's a moral decision when I make it, it's a moral decision when a cat makes it? A dog? An oyster?

No, because animals aren't humans, nor do they have the mental capacity to make moral judgements the way humans do.

It's an instinct - there's not even a decision involved.

So, when people vote, they are only following instincts, and have no thought involved in the process? Yeah, right.