Why do some Christians vote Democrat?

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Can anyone list or explain to me Christian reasons to support the Democrat party that outweighs the following list of reasons not to. I appear to be ignorant of the reasons why my Christian brothers and sisters in America often do this.

Please be careful not to suggest that Democrats who say they are Christian are not really as that would be regarded as flaming by the moderators of this forum. Keep to the issues and please be honest when your arguments do not stand up to scrutiny rather than resorting to personal attacks.

IMHO:- Reasons not to support the Democrats would include:

1) More solid support for abortion than the Republicans or though not so much amongst poorer Democrats
Republicans More Unified Than Democrats on Abortion

2) Greater level of support for gay marriage laws and the prosecution of Christians who cannot in good conscience support these laws.
Civil Rights

3) A foreign policy that has helped facilitate the massacre of Christians in the Middle east and the rise of ISIS and done little to nothing to provide actual help to Christians being killed or persecuted in this region. A policy that has promoted Muslim candidates in various African elections e.g. Nigeria and Upper Volta.
State Department Purges Religious Freedom Section from Its Human Rights Reports | CNS News
As Middle East Christians suffer, advocates slam Obama's failure to support religious freedom | WashingtonExaminer.com


4) Poor stewardship of the American economy to the detriment of poor Americans: e.g. health care cost inflation, greater levels of economic inequality and lower levels of social mobility etc.

Income Inequality Worse Under Obama Than George W. Bush

Thirteen Economic Facts about Social Mobility and the Role of Education | Brookings Institution

o-HEALTH-INSURANCE-PREMIUMS-2015-570.jpg
 
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I agree with all points except the last. Is it anti-Christian to be for big government?

To be perfectly honest from a Christian point of view I am not sure the size of government matters so much as its effectiveness for Christian causes.

If the elimination of poverty is a test of the current American model then in absolute terms it has been a success as even the poorest Americans are rich by global standards. If on the other hand a test of freedom is applied that considers all Americans to be fundamentally equal and explores whether they have real opportunity to realise their potential or not then I think that it is clear that the current model does not work and the Democrats have not helped change that.

Personal spending power is eroded by health costs and personal freedoms by a lack of social and economic mobility and by massive inequality between rich and poor so that the rich may have real lifestyle choices while the poor do not.

Big government is not necessarily a solution to these issues as the Chinese model illustrates. People with political power there are very rich and the levels of inequality are similar to those of the USA and the problem of absolute poverty far worse. In Europe Big government has successfully addressed these issues however.
 
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SepiaAndDust

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1) More solid support for abortion than the Republicans or though not so much amongst poorer Democrats

Nothing un-Christian about abortion. A fetus is not a person.


2) Greater level of support for gay marriage laws and the prosecution of Christians who cannot in good conscience support these laws.

Nothing un-Christian about demanding equal rights for all. If a Christian cannot in good conscience give equal treatment to everyone, then that Christian should find another line of work.


3) A foreign policy that has helped facilitate the massacre of Christians in the Middle east and the rise of ISIS and done little to nothing to provide actual help to Christians being killed or persecuted in this region. A policy that has promoted Muslim candidates in various African elections e.g. Nigeria and Upper Volta.

Honestly, what's to be done in such a volatile region? Republicans haven't done any better than Democrats have.

Nothing wrong with supporting a Muslim candidate in a majority-Muslim election.


4) Poor stewardship of the American economy to the detriment of poor Americans: e.g. health care cost inflation, greater levels of economic inequality and lower levels of social mobility etc.

I'd say that the Republicans are more to blame for all of those things than the Democrats.

Still, The poor you will always have with you.


There are Christians, and there are Christians™. I have no interest in being a trademark.
 
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NightHawkeye

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I agree with all points except the last. Is it anti-Christian to be for big government?
Considering that Christianity has been a voluntary call with one of its major objectives being each individual acting charitably toward others ... then yes ... big government's "charity" tends to isolate and harden the hearts of people against the needs of others.

Instead, when everyone is "equal" then all are acutely aware of the inevitable inequities and accusations of unfairness echo incessantly. :doh:
 
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amanuensis63

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Can anyone list or explain to me Christian reasons to support the Democrat party that outweighs the following list of reasons not to. I appear to be ignorant of the reasons why my Christian brothers and sisters in America often do this.

The democratic party as it currently exists champions:

1. Equal Civil rights without caveat
2. Improved access to healthcare for all regardless of income
3. Social safety nets for the poor

Honestly I can't see why anyone wouldn't vote for the Dems from a Christian perspective.

1) More solid support for abortion than the Republicans or though not so much amongst poorer Democrats
Republicans More Unified Than Democrats on Abortion

One can stand against abortion but still vote for a party that supports the right of access for those who disagree with the pro-life position.

To my knowledge Roe v Wade doesn't force anyone to get an abortion.

2) Greater level of support for gay marriage laws and the prosecution of Christians who cannot in good conscience support these laws.
Civil Rights

Same argument. While one can be against gay marriage it is still possible to support legislation that allows choice for those who do not share the religion.

3) A foreign policy that has helped facilitate the massacre of Christians in the Middle east and the rise of ISIS and done little to nothing to provide actual help to Christians being killed or persecuted in this region. A policy that has promoted Muslim candidates in various African elections e.g. Nigeria and Upper Volta.

There is NO EVIDENCE that Democrats "facilitate" massacre of Christians. This is pure rhetoric.

4) Poor stewardship of the American economy to the detriment of poor Americans: e.g. health care cost inflation, greater levels of economic inequality and lower levels of social mobility etc.

The Democrat presidents in recent history include Clinton under whom the US economy had one of the largest peace time expansions expansions. Reagan expanded the debt immensely. In addition the rate of increase of spending under OBama is less than under George W. Bush.

Income inequality is decried by Republicans as "socialist envy" so it is not possible to use Income Inequality metrics as a pro-Republican position.
 
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Nothing un-Christian about abortion. A fetus is not a person.

Psalm 139 disagrees with you:

13For You formed my inward parts;
You wove me in my mother’s womb. 14I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Wonderful are Your works,
And my soul knows it very well.
15My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth;
 
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tulc

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Can anyone list or explain to me Christian reasons to support the Democrat party that outweighs the following list of reasons not to. I appear to be ignorant of the reasons why my Christian brothers and sisters in America often do this.

Please be careful not to suggest that Democrats who say they are Christian are not really as that would be regarded as flaming by the moderators of this forum. Keep to the issues and please be honest when your arguments do not stand up to scrutiny rather than resorting to personal attacks.

IMHO:- Reasons not to support the Democrats would include:

1) More solid support for abortion than the Republicans or though not so much amongst poorer Democrats
Republicans More Unified Than Democrats on Abortion

2) Greater level of support for gay marriage laws and the prosecution of Christians who cannot in good conscience support these laws.
Civil Rights

3) A foreign policy that has helped facilitate the massacre of Christians in the Middle east and the rise of ISIS and done little to nothing to provide actual help to Christians being killed or persecuted in this region. A policy that has promoted Muslim candidates in various African elections e.g. Nigeria and Upper Volta.
State Department Purges Religious Freedom Section from Its Human Rights Reports | CNS News
As Middle East Christians suffer, advocates slam Obama's failure to support religious freedom | WashingtonExaminer.com


4) Poor stewardship of the American economy to the detriment of poor Americans: e.g. health care cost inflation, greater levels of economic inequality and lower levels of social mobility etc.

Income Inequality Worse Under Obama Than George W. Bush

Thirteen Economic Facts about Social Mobility and the Role of Education | Brookings Institution

o-HEALTH-INSURANCE-PREMIUMS-2015-570.jpg

well, it's kind of hard to explain but I'll try:
because I want too. :wave:
huh....I guess it wasn't really all that hard after all. :sorry:
tulc(thinks a harder question would be: decaff coffee, why does it exist?) :cool:
 
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mindlight

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Nothing un-Christian about abortion. A fetus is not a person.

The vast majority of Christians disagree, the teaching of the major churches is clear on this as is scripture.


Nothing un-Christian about demanding equal rights for all. If a Christian cannot in good conscience give equal treatment to everyone, then that Christian should find another line of work.

Equality of worth and dignity does not extend to making an equivalence between good and evil nor enshrining lies into law. Also the First Amendment quite clearly defends religious freedoms.

Honestly, what's to be done in such a volatile region? Republicans haven't done any better than Democrats have.

Iraq was left in a far better state by the Republicans than it is in now. The rise of ISIS has a lot to do with Obamas keenness to get out of Iraq before mature checks and balances had developed in Iraqi political institutions and especially regarding the relationship between Sunni and Shias. But yes the Republicans also made big mistakes in Iraq and the church often paid the price under them also.
 
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WirSindBettler

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Nothing un-Christian about abortion. A fetus is not a person.

"For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb. I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from you,
when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them."
Psalm 139:13-16

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations."
Jeremiah 1:5

"But when He who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by His grace, was pleased to reveal His Son to me, in order that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone;"
Galatians 1:15-16
Nothing un-Christian about demanding equal rights for all. If a Christian cannot in good conscience give equal treatment to everyone, then that Christian should find another line of work.

"But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol's temple, will he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols? And so by your knowledge this weak person is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died. Thus, sinning against your brothers and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble."
1 Corinthians 8:9-13
 
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mindlight

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Considering that Christianity has been a voluntary call with one of its major objectives being each individual acting charitably toward others ... then yes ... big government's "charity" tends to isolate and harden the hearts of people against the needs of others.

Instead, when everyone is "equal" then all are acutely aware of the inevitable inequities and accusations of unfairness echo incessantly. :doh:

In the pre welfare state days of the early church you are right that giving was not compulsory, was act of loving charity and further was only within the church from Christian to Christian. So there is not a clear model for a comprehensive and universal welfare state in scripture although the parable of the Good Samaritan is often referred to.

The European welfare states have proven efficient stewards of a nations resources and have resulted in comprehensive care. There is an argument to be made that this has reduced real charity between individuals, has resulted in things like abortion at tax payers expense and has helped to remove the hunger and aspiration that characterises growing economies and cultures. But it works a lot better and more cheaply than the American system.

My criticism of the Democrats is more on the lines of the fact that despite claiming to represent the poors interests they have actually performed very badly cutting the cost of welfare and enabling social mobility and equality of opportunity. It may well be that a small state model is actually more effective to help the poor in the US context.
 
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SepiaAndDust

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The vast majority of Christians disagree, the teaching of the major churches is clear on this as is scripture.

Why should anybody care what the vast majority of Christians agree on? Like people of all stripes, most Christians don't generally know what they're talking about, but they rarely let that stop them from talking.

Scripture is far from clear, and the Bible is neither directly inspired nor infallible, so whatever verses get tortured into agreement with any particular position don't really matter.

Peoples' views on abortion comes down to one question--is a fetus a person? I say no. Feel free to disagree.


Equality of worth and dignity does not extend to making an equivalence between good and evil nor enshrining lies into law. Also the First Amendment quite clearly defends religious freedoms.

The equivalence between good and evil is being made by the Christians who are doing evil and calling it good when they want basic rights and freedoms for only some.


Iraq was left in a far better state by the Republicans than it is in now. The rise of ISIS has a lot to do with Obamas keenness to get out of Iraq before mature checks and balances had developed in Iraqi political institutions and especially regarding the relationship between Sunni and Shias. But yes the Republicans also made big mistakes in Iraq and the church often paid the price under them also.

When you think Republicans are at fault, they're "big mistakes". When you think Democrats are at fault, they "helped facilitate the massacre"....
 
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SepiaAndDust

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"For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb. I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from you,
when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them."
Psalm 139:13-16

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations."
Jeremiah 1:5

"But when He who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by His grace, was pleased to reveal His Son to me, in order that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone;"
Galatians 1:15-16


"But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol's temple, will he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols? And so by your knowledge this weak person is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died. Thus, sinning against your brothers and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble."
1 Corinthians 8:9-13

Ignored until you learn to write your own posts. Copy / Paste arguments are worthless, even Scriptural ones.
 
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mindlight

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The democratic party as it currently exists champions:

1. Equal Civil rights without caveat

Equality seems to be a secular liberal concept as it has been realised in the USA and Europe rather than a Christian one. An Archangel and a caterpillar may well be equally inferior to God and yet there is a serious inequality between them which is not a problem in itself. We are all made in Gods image and that implies an equal dignity. We are all equally capable of being saved by Christ and all have potential access to a future with God. But I cannot see much in the bible about the necessity of an equality of outcome regarding incomes and wealth for instance.

Also while races and sexes are clearly of equal worth in scripture and a gay man or a Muslim has an equal dignity with a Christian there is nothing in scripture that asserts a sinful lifestyle or commitment to a false religion as being an equal choice to righteous living and true worship. Allowing the people the freedom of their freewill choices within limits seems compatible with scriptures but to promote sinful lifestyles and enshrine sins into law as if they were equivalent to righteous choices seems to show a loss of discernment and of understanding of the difference between right and wrong.

2. Improved access to healthcare for all regardless of income

There is nothing that says this should be an automatic right for Christians to support programmes for non Christians but it is clear that comprehensive schemes are generally more efficient.

3. Social safety nets for the poor

Honestly I can't see why anyone wouldn't vote for the Dems from a Christian perspective.

Absolute poverty is not a real issue in the USA and relative poverty is not a moral issue. But I also agree with the concept of a comprehensive safety net on the grounds of good stewardship.

One can stand against abortion but still vote for a party that supports the right of access for those who disagree with the pro-life position. To my knowledge Roe v Wade doesn't force anyone to get an abortion.

If abortion is murder of a defenceless child that position seems to lack Christian perspective.

Same argument. While one can be against gay marriage it is still possible to support legislation that allows choice for those who do not share the religion.

Civil contracts did that and were adequate to ensure freewill choices were respected and property rights in such relationships protected. But gay marriage enshrines lies in to law and thereby undermines the authority of law.

There is NO EVIDENCE that Democrats "facilitate" massacre of Christians. This is pure rhetoric.

Obamas indecent haste to get out of Iraq is a root cause for the rise of ISIS as was his dithering over Syria which allowed time for the revolution to be hijacked by radical Islamists.


The Democrat presidents in recent history include Clinton under whom the US economy had one of the largest peace time expansions expansions. Reagan expanded the debt immensely. In addition the rate of increase of spending under OBama is less than under George W. Bush.

Clinton was a good steward reducing debt and managing the economy well. He did not have 911 and its aftermath to deal with and he was lucky not to have the banking crash of 2008 on his watch. Since America had no rivals at that time thanks to the previous republican administration it might have done better. Also the hard choices which laid the foundations for American prosperity in the 90s were really laid by George Bush Senior.

Income inequality is decried by Republicans as "socialist envy" so it is not possible to use Income Inequality metrics as a pro-Republican position.

The levels of inequality between the super rich and the poorest is massive in the USA and there are social stability and efficiency issues arising from such discrepancies. But if the Democrats are supposed to be the poor mans choice how come inequality of income and wealth has increased under the Democrats and social mobility declined?
 
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mindlight

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Beware.

Those equating their faith to a particular political party are going to hear:

Depart from me, I never knew you.

Doesn't matter which political party.

There are no perfect Christian parties on this planet agreed.

The view may well be that Republicans tend to be greedy and gun ho and the Democrats deceived and immoral for instance in US politics. But one can check out the overall models and ask the question which one seems to be the better response to the Christian message.
 
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pakicetus

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1) More solid support for abortion than the Republicans or though not so much amongst poorer Democrats

I'm not sure making abortions tougher to get (which is all politicians can do, since they can't ban it) is a better way to prevent them than reducing unwanted pregnancies and taking away the reason many people want abortions in the first place: the knowledge that their child will grow up impoverished. Do you think most Republicans would want to expand social welfare programs if I told them it would lead to fewer abortions?

2) Greater level of support for gay marriage laws and the prosecution of Christians who cannot in good conscience support these laws.
Huh? What "prosecution of Christians" is going on?

Discrimination against gay people causes them psychological harm -- sometimes horrible psychological harm. I have to side with the victims: it's a matter of principle. I'm a member of three heavily stigmatized minority groups, so I know what it can be like to live in a society that treats you as an inferior. Screw that.

3) A foreign policy that has helped facilitate the massacre of Christians in the Middle east and the rise of ISIS and done little to nothing to provide actual help to Christians being killed or persecuted in this region. A policy that has promoted Muslim candidates in various African elections e.g. Nigeria and Upper Volta.
What's wrong with promoting Muslim candidates? Muslims can be good people, and they're certainly capable of being the lesser of two evils. Hell, some Muslim candidates run against other Muslims.

I read the two articles you posted about the State Department and Obama's failure to appoint someone to head a "special envoy" to help persecuted Christians. They both seem quite bad -- especially the latter. I'll have to learn more about the topic before I comment, however - keeping in mind that the entire Democratic Party isn't identical to Obama.

4) Poor stewardship of the American economy to the detriment of poor Americans: e.g. health care cost inflation, greater levels of economic inequality and lower levels of social mobility etc.
Healthcare cost inflation is a long-term trend that started way before Obama was President. You should know that from the graph you just posted: it shows healthcare cost inflation since 1999, continuing right through the Bush years. And income inequality is a 40-year trend that really took off in the 1980s, the wonder years for the Republican Party. Not that they're entirely to blame; inequality has also been worsening in most other countries, whose domestic policies the Republicans (and Obama!) don't control.

Even if income inequality is somehow Obama's fault, what is the Republican Party willing to do about it? Most Republican voters don't even think our level of inequality is a problem, and every time a Democrat talks about inequality, Republicans call it "class warfare."

Also, you're probably wrong about upward mobility worsening. Since this forum won't let me post links until I have fifty posts, you can look up a New York Times article called "Upward Mobility Has Not Declined, Study says" that claims upward mobility has stayed the same for the last 20 years. Incidentally, what will the Republican Party ever do to increase upward mobility? Cut social spending and abolish the estate tax? I think it's astonishing that Republican politicians can decry welfare as a "handout" that isn't earned, when they have no problem with huge amounts of money falling in people's laps just for having rich parents.

Now I'll explain why I can be a Christian and vote Democrat. A lot of the things Jesus said are utterly ignored by the Republican Party: it's almost impossible for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven (in which case you'd think we'd be doing them a favor by taking their money), forgive everyone for everything, "punish" people by heaping kindness and generosity on them, and be compassionate towards the poor. But my main objections are secular:

1. The Republican Party believes a scarily inaccurate version of reality. My first test of someone's judgment is "Do they believe in magic or conspiracy theories?" My second test is "Do they accept science?" Since the Republican Party actually accepts magic and conspiracy theories over science in multiple different areas, they fail both tests massively.

Out of all the Republicans who ran for President in 2012, only Jon Huntsman and Mitt Romney accepted evolution: the rest believed in young-Earth creationism. Now, I'm perfectly fine if you're a young-Earth creationist, but these people are expected to help run the most powerful country on Earth! They should understand enough science to know the Proto-Indo-Europeans were more than a couple hundred years removed from the dinosaurs. And if they won't bother to understand science, they should at least trust the consensus of people who do, instead of assuming their gut instincts know better.

Same thing with Global Warming. 97% of climate scientists say Global Warming is happening and it's caused mostly by humans. Did that stop the Republican Party from voting overwhelmingly to deny anthropogenic global warming in January? Did it stop them from promising to promote "private stewartship of the environment" and oppose any regulations to combat global warming at their 2012 National Convention? No. Because they believe their uneducated guesses and conspiracy theories are more trustworthy than the expert judgment of evil liberal scientists.

And I'm not even done with the crazy conspiracy theories. About half of Republicans believed, right after the 2012 elections, that ACORN had stolen the Presidency for Obama -- even though it had been out of existence for two years. Over half believe Obama is a Muslim "deep down." 62% believe Obama is trying to take everyone's guns (which he can't even do). Almost half believe he's secretly trying to stay in office for a third term. 42% believe Muslims are secretly implementing Sharia in American courts -- which is actually higher than the percentage who think that isn't true. (You can easily look up any of this. Most of it is from an October 2013 Public Policy Polling poll that I can't link to because I don't have 50 posts.)

I also can't really trust the judgment of anyone who thinks the Bible is both literal and infallible. Anyone with a remotely adequate knowledge of history or science should know the Bible is full of claims that can't possibly be true. It says the Earth is flat and rests on four pillars. It says multiple times that God was about to kill all the Jews before Moses convinced him to change his mind (with really impressive arguments, actually). It says "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." It says Pharaoh's wizards were able to turn sticks into snakes and change the weather. You can conclude one of two things about people who claim the Bible is infallible: Either they believe in witchcraft, or they're willing to trust the complete accuracy of a book without even knowing what's in it. I won't vote for anyone like that. I'm scared to vote for anyone who even has to pander to those people. It would be exactly like voting for a believer in shape-shifting lizard people.

A lot of Republican politicians even say Obama is a socialist! That means they have no idea what capitalism or socialism even are. They won't even type the terms into Google. I expect politicians to know as much about economics as I knew in 8th grade. Actually, I expect them to know much, much more. That eliminates every single politician who thinks Obama is a socialist.

2. Contradictory rhetoric, lack of self-awareness. How can you express empathy for people who are "struggling under the Obama economy," then turn around and call poor people lazy and undeserving? How can you pretend economic outcomes are purely a matter of personal responsibility, then turn around and say Obama should do a better job with the economy? Does the government have a responsibility to help the needy or not?

Welp, that's all I'm willing to say for now. Believe me, I have much, much more. I'll probably post some of it later.
 
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