Why do some Christian's dismiss Creationism?

[ThaiDuykhang]

Yes, very easily.

Firstly, Jesus never says anything in support of or against a modernistic literalist view of Genesis. Why would he? It wasn't part of his message of liberation.

Secondly, he lived in the 1st century AD, 1800 and more years before the modern theory of evolution was first mooted. How could a man who lived before the theory was thought of have any knowledge of said theory, and why would he be any more of an idiot than Plato, who also didn't know about it?

Jesus would no more know about evolution than he would about the plot of The Bold & the Beautiful. Why would he need to?

Yikes!

 

[ThaiDuykhang]

added 2 more arguments in #1, please check them out

 

[gluadys]

What this has to anthing to do with my post?
I just ask you do you think I or any faithful can push a law recognizing wiccan gods as Christian God. answer me yes or no

Even Wiccans would not want their gods recognized as the Christian God. Where do you get this foolishness from?

What both Christians and Wiccans can push for is that the state show no favoritism for one religion over another. Let Wiccans worship their gods in peace and let Christians worship God in peace.

 

[The Lady Kate]

Get this schizophrenia sorted out before making another post. I beg you.

Abusive, aren't you? Why do you hate your fellow Christians so much?

US wages war to liberate Iraq because at considering the situations US believes a war is the best way.

Who said anything about Iraq?

people who don't believe in war are called pacifists and will never wage war.

And is it not possible for a pacifist to look at a situation and say "just this once, war is immoral, but still necessary?

people do something because they believe it's right.

Sometimes they do something because they believe it's necessary.

 

[The Lady Kate]

So abortion is for the best of US and Kerry isn't a member of the US society. you're assuming J Kerry is a schizo. I guess he's more likely a hypocrite than a schizo.

What are you babbling about?

John Kerry, despite his own personal moral objections, believes that abortian is legal, and as such, should remain so. He is willing to defer to the will of the people. He is able to separate his personal feeling from his duties in office.

Whatever his personal moral vaules may be, in this case, he's not willing to impose this one on the nation.

George Bush is a Christian... why doesn't he enforce Christianity as the law of the land? Is he a schizo or a hypocrite?

Are Christian politicians who do not want to enforce Christianity as law being schizos or hypocrites?

 

[The Lady Kate]

added 2 more arguments in #1, please check them out

By now, I would hope you've figured it out, Thaiduykhang... you are the reason Christians dismiss Creationism.

 

[shernren]

I'm showing you God never lie to teach something.

We never said Genesis is a lie. We said Genesis is a myth. If a myth is a lie then Samuel's story and Jesus' parables are lies and the Bible is chock-full of lies even if Genesis 1 is historical. Are you sure you want to go there?

Wrong! the first firmament mean sky which birds fly. the second firmament is the out space. and there're water above horizon before the flood which make enviroment much better so human can live 912 years on average.

Nope, where in Genesis 1 does it say that there are two firmaments? Genesis 1 has one firmament, waters above it and waters below it, and birds flying on the face of the firmament.

You can believe Jesus can heal by laying hand, why can't you believe animals possessed by Satan can talk?

Actually, I do believe that Satan possessed a snake and used it to tempt Adam and Eve. I was comparing mythical characteristics of Genesis 1 to animals speaking in fairy tales, not animals speaking in Genesis 3.

Assuming makes ...

That's the way he created everything. that's the way He told Bible writers to record it. I don't know why something written beautifully can't be true. do things have to be full of blasphemies to be true? think about it.

Is a myth a blasphemy? Don't read blasphemies to your children when you tuck them into bed! Oh, burn the books of blasphemies, those fairy tale books!

Then Jews could work 6 days and rest for the rest of their lives! you observed any macroevolution? no scientist agrees with you. so God created everything in the first 6 days.

God has not created anything for the past 6,000 years. Therefore God has not stopped resting from creating and the "seventh day" is still going on. Heh.

 

[shernren]

I'm showing you God never lie to teach something.

No, I showed that God uses myths to teach all the time. If you call myths lies, then the Bible is chock-full of lies even if Genesis 1 is absolutely historical and true.

Wrong! the first firmament mean sky which birds fly. the second firmament is the out space. and there're water above horizon before the flood which make enviroment much better so human can live 912 years on average.

No, Genesis 1 has only one firmament. There are waters above it, waters below it, and birds flying on the face of it.

You can believe Jesus can heal by laying hand, why can't you believe animals possessed by Satan can talk?

But I believe that there was an actual talking snake tempting Adam and Eve! I wasn't comparing to the talking snake of Genesis 3, but to the talking animals of fairy-tales. Assuming makes ...

That's the way he created everything. that's the way He told Bible writers to record it. I don't know why something written beautifully can't be true. do things have to be full of blasphemies to be true? think about it.

Is evolution full of blasphemies? To say that we believe something full of blasphemies should amount to saying that we are not Christian, and counts as a subtle Bible hammer in my judgment.

Then Jews could work 6 days and rest for the rest of their lives! you observed any macroevolution? no scientist agrees with you. so God created everything in the first 6 days.

Gee, no Jews should work, exactly! Good to see you start interpreting the Bible literally! God hasn't stopped resting from creating and therefore the 7th day hasn't finished.

 

[Robert the Pilegrim]

PMed and posted on "Why do some Chrisitan's dismiss Creationism?"

Your Church teaches so, My Church teaches so.

Please cite the chapter and paragraph in the Catholic Catechism that teaches December 25 as the actual date of Christ's birth.

ThaiDuykhang I would ask you to take a deep breath and relax.

Look at the name calling you are engaging in, don't try to excuse it by the fact that others, myself included, have been a bit rough on you.

Is this behaviour that you are proud of?

You think we are acusing God of lieing because we don't believe in a literal interpretation of Genesis.

We disagree. I suggest you show a little respect and perhaps some wisdom in accepting that maybe there are ways of looking at the Bible that you don't understand, rather than making accusations and engaging in name calling.

That doesn't mean you agree, just that respect our right to disagree over what is a peripheral issue in the bigger picture of salvation.

I strongly suspect that most of the people here are not upset with your beliefs, though they disagree with them, they are upset with your attitude that yours is the only way and the fact that you keep bringing up seriously flawed (and mostly old) arguments, particularly about the physical evidence, doing so rather beligerantly and refusing to acknowledge that you may be wrong.

The only argument I've seen you bring up that has any traction at all is the question of Sirius being red.

This is something you will find often in your life, that other Christians don't fully agree with you and yet if you spend some time with them you will find that they too are sincere and devout.

So maybe you should take a break for a while and cool down a bit.

Ah, and maybe others on these threads should do the same.

Yours Truly,
Robert the Pilegrim

 

[ThaiDuykhang]

PMed and posted on "Why do some Chrisitan's dismiss Creationism?"

I'll not debate anything privately. since you posted it here. I'll reply to it here.

Please cite the chapter and paragraph in the Catholic Catechism that teaches December 25 as the actual date of Christ's birth.

ThaiDuykhang I would ask you to take a deep breath and relax.

Look at the name calling you are engaging in, don't try to excuse it by the fact that others, myself included, have been a bit rough on you.

Is this behaviour that you are proud of?

You think we are acusing God of lieing because we don't believe in a literal interpretation of Genesis.

We disagree. I suggest you show a little respect and perhaps some wisdom in accepting that maybe there are ways of looking at the Bible that you don't understand, rather than making accusations and engaging in name calling.

That doesn't mean you agree, just that respect our right to disagree over what is a peripheral issue in the bigger picture of salvation.

I strongly suspect that most of the people here are not upset with your beliefs, though they disagree with them, they are upset with your attitude that yours is the only way and the fact that you keep bringing up seriously flawed (and mostly old) arguments, particularly about the physical evidence, doing so rather beligerantly and refusing to acknowledge that you may be wrong.

The only argument I've seen you bring up that has any traction at all is the question of Sirius being red.

This is something you will find often in your life, that other Christians don't fully agree with you and yet if you spend some time with them you will find that they too are sincere and devout.

So maybe you should take a break for a while and cool down a bit.

Ah, and maybe others on these threads should do the same.

Yours Truly,
Robert the Pilegrim

Papal teaching isn't limited to Catechism.
here is a Christmas homily by JPII in 2004
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/homilies/2004/documents/hf_jp-ii_hom_20041224_christmas-night_en.html

You are born on this Night, our divine Redeemer, and, in our journey along the paths of time, you become for us the food of eternal life.​

Well Jesus' birthday may be Dec 24th. since this is a midnight mass, it may also land in Dec 25th. This should settle the question.

Show me a namecalling from me. I called you charlatan?
Show me a personal attack from me. I use "since you're a thief, you're wrong?" as an argument?

If you can refute my arguments, no matter how old it is, you lost.
You claim my arguments are faulty, but you can't prove it. you lost.
According to you God said something he didn't do, you don't think it's lying? you lost.
People do believe in different things. on the matter of Creation/TE, only one is correct. And I'm here to draw people closer to Bible.
Someone who believe in evolution and after being refuted, repent and believe in God's words. they're sincere. Someone who believe in evolution and after being refuted, starts namecalling or switch to some other topic. they're not sincere.

 

[ThaiDuykhang]

No, I showed that God uses myths to teach all the time. If you call myths lies, then the Bible is chock-full of lies even if Genesis 1 is absolutely historical and true.

Do you have a Bible at hand. show me a lie.
When God(most possibly you mean Jesus) say something not historical, he told it explicitly. Genesis simply is written as historic fact.

No, Genesis 1 has only one firmament. There are waters above it, waters below it, and birds flying on the face of it.

You're distorting Bible just to attack it. birds fly in the firmament. the heaven birds fly in isn't the heaven we want to go in afterlife. there're 3 heavens in all.

Is evolution full of blasphemies? To say that we believe something full of blasphemies should amount to saying that we are not Christian, and counts as a subtle Bible hammer in my judgment.

Just because Genesis is written beautifully, you don't believe it's real. Darwin's book is full of racism, blasphemies, fa and you believe it's true. what's the logic?

Gee, no Jews should work, exactly! Good to see you start interpreting the Bible literally! God hasn't stopped resting from creating and therefore the 7th day hasn't finished.

If you think the 7th day hasn't finished then no one should rest. as simple as that. If the 7th day is 1000 years then you can work 6 days and rest for 1000 years. I don't know which you failed to understand.

 

[ThaiDuykhang]

Even Wiccans would not want their gods recognized as the Christian God. Where do you get this foolishness from?
.

You're right. then why do you(or Lady Kate) assume I will push for something I don't agree. It's foolish as you put it.

 

[ThaiDuykhang]

Abusive, aren't you? Why do you hate your fellow Christians so much?

Not abusive, Kerry believe something is good for the society isn't good for himself and pushes it. that's medically called schizophrenia. ask any doctor if you like.

Who said anything about Iraq?

To show people do something because they feel it's right and necessary.

And is it not possible for a pacifist to look at a situation and say "just this once, war is immoral, but still necessary?

It's impossible. find a pacifist. they'll told you all wars are immoral and unnecessary.

 

[ThaiDuykhang]

What are you babbling about?

John Kerry, despite his own personal moral objections, believes that abortian is legal, and as such, should remain so. He is willing to defer to the will of the people. He is able to separate his personal feeling from his duties in office.

Whatever his personal moral vaules may be, in this case, he's not willing to impose this one on the nation.

George Bush is a Christian... why doesn't he enforce Christianity as the law of the land? Is he a schizo or a hypocrite?

Are Christian politicians who do not want to enforce Christianity as law being schizos or hypocrites?

Catholic Church teaches law should forbid abortion. so you're more willing to follow a heretic?

George Bush is bring back Christian values to US. he can't enforce Christianity as a state religion because 1) it's against constitution. 2) you can't force a religion among people. you can only convert someone to Christianity only if he wishes. 3) Christianity has never been a state religion. Catholicism and Protestantism have been. but never Christianity as whole.

 

[ThaiDuykhang]

By now, I would hope you've figured it out, Thaiduykhang... you are the reason Christians dismiss Creationism.

If a Christian before choosing his stance on Creationism/TE see the status of TEs in this thread, I bet $100 he'll choose Creationism

 

[The Lady Kate]

Not abusive, Kerry believe something is good for the society isn't good for himself and pushes it.

I find it highly unlikely that John Kerry will ever personally require an abortion.

And I'm sure that if a member of his own family, let's say a daughter, were to consider it, I'm sure he would do everything he could, as a father, to prevent it. he would consider that bad for his family.

But he is not about to speak for every father in the country, now is he? He's is going to allow fathers, mothers, etc... the right to make their own decisions, and, despite his own personal moral objections, make sure that the government does not interfere.

Or did you assume that pro-choice automatically means pro-abortion?

that's medically called schizophrenia. ask any doctor if you like.

It might be, if Kerry was requiring people to get abortions... he's not. Nobody who's pro-choice is. He's allowing people to do so... or not, according to their own consciences.

Now, you might wish for our politicians to impose their wills upon others... you might even do it yourself if you were in a position of power.

That's medically called megalomania. Ask any doctor if you like.

 

[The Lady Kate]

If a Christian before choosing his stance on Creationism/TE see the status of TEs in this thread, I bet $100 he'll choose Creationism

You'd lose. And the very fact that you're willing to bet on it shows why.

 

[The Lady Kate]

Catholic Church teaches law should forbid abortion. so you're more willing to follow a heretic?

Going to burn me at the stake? Or will stoning suffice?

George Bush is bring back Christian values to US.

Failing miserably at it, IMHO. I see very little in Bush's actions that show any values, let alone Christian ones.... but that's a topic for another thread.

he can't enforce Christianity as a state religion because 1) it's against constitution.

Which Congress has the right to amend... so why not?

2) you can't force a religion among people. you can only convert someone to Christianity only if he wishes.

But you don't seem to have issues with forcing religious values on other people against their wishes.

3) Christianity has never been a state religion. Catholicism and Protestantism have been. but never Christianity as whole.

Given the hundreds of different Christian denominations, it's not surprising.

 

[ThaiDuykhang]

Going to burn me at the stake? Or will stoning suffice?

In the old days, you would have been burned at the stake, I don't doubt that. Generally heretics aren't stoned.

Failing miserably at it, IMHO. I see very little in Bush's actions that show any values, let alone Christian ones.... but that's a topic for another thread.

If you're unwilling to debate why bring it up.

Which Congress has the right to amend... so why not?

Bush isn't the Congress

But you don't seem to have issues with forcing religious values on other people against their wishes.

Sure I don't have any. God tell us homosexuality is wrong. I have no problem trying to write it into law. For this, I'm doing God's will.

 

[gluadys]

Catholic Church teaches law should forbid abortion. so you're more willing to follow a heretic?

George Bush is bring back Christian values to US. he can't enforce Christianity as a state religion because 1) it's against constitution. 2) you can't force a religion among people. you can only convert someone to Christianity only if he wishes. 3) Christianity has never been a state religion. Catholicism and Protestantism have been. but never Christianity as whole.

And Kerry supports legal abortion because
1) it is against the constitution to forbid it,
2) you can't force a religion among people and abortion is opposed on religious grounds,
3) there is no state religion permitted by the US constitution.

That doesn't mean he personally approves abortion. It means he personally believes in upholding the constitution. You cannot write Catholic teachings into the law unless the constitution is changed.

Perhaps you think it is hypocritical for an American Catholic to seek the presidency until the constitution is changed?