Why do so many men have no real friends? And what can we do to fix this problem?

[fide]

The internet is not a church. Get it?

The Church is people, who gather in church buildings, and on the internet, and here you are among us. Are you trying to get it too? It is get-able, for those who are seeking. Are you seeking something?

 

[RileyG]

Seriously - rural living and less social media, I believe lead to more friendships. In the country you know everyone for miles around. We go back to the city to visit family at times, and there are hundreds of people on one block and nobody talks to each other.

From my perspective, rural living leads to the "small town mentality." People think the entire world revolves around them, so they gossip and they treat each other like garbage. Small towns are NOT friendly. They're probably the most toxic place for friendships IMHO.

 

[Sir Robbins]

The Church is people, who gather in church buildings, and on the internet, and here you are among us. Are you trying to get it too? It is get-able, for those who are seeking. Are you seeking something?

church, by my definition, is a building and nothing further. I am not seeking anything. The online forum is simply a place to chat for me.

 

[Veloman]

I agree with the notion that men need friends. I also have observed how manly friendships have eroded over the past 4 decades. I think the LGBT agenda, and social media are the big two reasons why (among others). The push to do all things "digitally" vs. in real life (analog) since the late 90s has completely derailed hundreds of years of what used to be accepted social norms. Heck, most Millennial and Gen-Z adults I come across don't have even half the social skills/maturity of a Gen-X adolescent. I don't blame them though, because it is the previous generations (late Baby Boomers/early Gen-X specifically) that allowed/created this problem. It started in the 60s with one word: counterculture.

 

[Sir Robbins]

I agree with the notion that men need friends. I also have observed how manly friendships have eroded over the past 4 decades. I think the LGBT agenda, and social media are the big two reasons why (among others). The push to do all things "digitally" vs. in real life (analog) since the late 90s has completely derailed hundreds of years of what used to be accepted social norms. Heck, most Millennial and Gen-Z adults I come across don't have even half the social skills/maturity of a Gen-X adolescent. I don't blame them though, because it is the previous generations (late Baby Boomers/early Gen-X specifically) that allowed/created this problem. It started in the 60s with one word: counterculture.

my issue is being someone in the middle ground of the world. I am not the drinking, bar hopping type but not the stay in a safe place type either. I hang in cigar lounges and though I've chatted with the same people for years, I'd never call them friends or talk to them about private things.

 

[ValeriyK2022]

my issue is being someone in the middle ground of the world. I am not the drinking, bar hopping type but not the stay in a safe place type either. I hang in cigar lounges and though I've chatted with the same people for years, I'd never call them friends or talk to them about private things.

Habit 2: Begin With the End in Mind is based on imagination—the ability to envision in your mind what you cannot at present see with your eyes. It is based on the principle that all things are created twice. There is a mental (first) creation, and a physical (second) creation. The physical creation follows the mental, just as a building follows a blueprint.

If you don’t make a conscious effort to visualize who you are and what you want in life, then you empower other people and circumstances to shape you and your life by default. It’s about connecting again with your uniqueness and then defining the personal, moral, and ethical guidelines within which you can most happily express and fulfill yourself. habit-2

If you continue to lead this lifestyle, then where will you be in 10, 20 or 30 years. And in 50?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Why is having little or no friends a problem?

Heck, my wife is my best friend.

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

Hope y'all don't mind me chiming in here. My wife is concerned that I don't have any close male friends. For me, I think the big issue is that while I have friends, they tend to be restricted to an area of activity such as work, church, gaming, rather than just a general friendship. I don't go out with anyone for a beer or dinner or anything like that.

 

[ValeriyK2022]

Hope y'all don't mind me chiming in here. My wife is concerned that I don't have any close male friends. For me, I think the big issue is that while I have friends, they tend to be restricted to an area of activity such as work, church, gaming, rather than just a general friendship. I don't go out with anyone for a beer or dinner or anything like that.

Оne person I know told me that he once traveled with his family from his hometown to another. And in the middle of the road (more than an hour away) the car broke down. It was 1:00 am. It was not possible to call a technical assistance specialist. The motor was not running and it was very cold outside. Wife and children in the car. He called his friend and he came in the middle of the night and helped them, took their car in tow (despite the fact that he had to work in the morning). Is there such a friend among your friends?

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

Оne person I know told me that he once traveled with his family from his hometown to another. And in the middle of the road (more than an hour away) the car broke down. It was 1:00 am. It was not possible to call a technical assistance specialist. The motor was not running and it was very cold outside. Wife and children in the car. He called his friend and he came in the middle of the night and helped them, took their car in tow (despite the fact that he had to work in the morning). Is there such a friend among your friends?

Yeah, I'd be able to get help like that. This is more about hanging out with some guys or having a male friend that I can really talk to about things. In my case, I have male friends that are a part of a given activity, but not just someone to hang with and shoot the #^$ with.

 

[zippy2006]

Aristotle observed a truth about (real) friendship in saying, "In a friendship of virtue, what you love is the person, not just the fun times you have together or useful things they do for you." And in this (real) friendship, the common link or bond is (real) virtue.

This reveals the scarcity of friendships in today's world: we live in an unrighteous world, where persons of (real) virtue are few and far between.

Yes, but the same was true in Aristotle's day.

It is interesting that the article says:

Finally, Christianity opens the door to friendship with anyone by urging us to love everyone, even our enemies.

Contrary to some of the initial posts I don't think social media is the primary culprit. I think it is rather the way that the West understands masculinity. But this final paragraph of the article is also one of the problems, not one of the solutions. One of Aristotle's central tenets here is that you cannot be friends with anyone or everyone, and that people who claim to do this actually have no friends at all. I think men and women need to be both more picky and more persevering in their friendships, but being picky as opposed to trying to be 'inclusive' is an important key here. It's as much a matter of dropping crappy acquaintances as seeking new friends, and these go hand in hand.

 

[zippy2006]

Hope y'all don't mind me chiming in here. My wife is concerned that I don't have any close male friends. For me, I think the big issue is that while I have friends, they tend to be restricted to an area of activity such as work, church, gaming, rather than just a general friendship. I don't go out with anyone for a beer or dinner or anything like that.

I struggle with this as well. A few things I hope to do:

• Establish a stronger foundation of acquaintances with virtuous men. These are seeds for mature friendship. The more seeds the merrier.
• Pursue those seeds which show promise with a more tenacity than I have in the past.
• Challenge new friends and old friends to virtue, especially when problems arise. Although this can undermine friendships, it provides an opportunity for rectification, strengthening of the friendship, and mutual upbuilding.

 

[Veloman]

Yes, but the same was true in Aristotle's day.

It is interesting that the article says:


Contrary to some of the initial posts I don't think social media is the primary culprit. I think it is rather the way that the West understands masculinity. But this final paragraph of the article is also one of the problems, not one of the solutions. One of Aristotle's central tenets here is that you cannot be friends with anyone or everyone, and that people who claim to do this actually have no friends at all. I think men and women need to be both more picky and more persevering in their friendships, but being picky as opposed to trying to be 'inclusive' is an important key here. It's as much a matter of dropping crappy acquaintances as seeking new friends, and these go hand in hand.

I struggle with this as well. A few things I hope to do:

• Establish a stronger foundation of acquaintances with virtuous men. These are seeds for mature friendship. The more seeds the merrier.
• Pursue those seeds which show promise with a more tenacity than I have in the past.
• Challenge new friends and old friends to virtue, especially when problems arise. Although this can undermine friendships, it provides an opportunity for rectification, strengthening of the friendship, and mutual upbuilding.

What you say here is absolutely correct. However, most every "man" (if you want to call them that) is too shallow to be a real friend. My observations lead me to believe that being more than a fair-weather friend is just too inconvenient. People love themselves more than others (a shame). It's what it is.

 

[zippy2006]

What you say here is absolutely correct. However, most every "man" (if you want to call them that) is too shallow to be a real friend. My observations lead me to believe that being more than a fair-weather friend is just too inconvenient. People love themselves more than others (a shame). It's what it is.

It is true that many may not be capable of deep friendships, but for Aristotle friendship and self-love are not incompatible, and this is because when we love a friend we love him as another self. We see ourselves in our friend, and our life together is a shared life ("our" life). So in an odd way, finding a friend magnifies all of life, including self-love. There is a good argument to be made that deep friendships expand self-knowledge and thus deepen and refine self-love.

Somewhat relatedly, Chesterton, speaking of friendship in a marital context said:

"Through all this ordeal his root horror had been isolation, and there are no words to express the abyss between isolation and having one ally. It may be conceded to the mathematicians that four is twice two. But two is not twice one; two is two thousand times one."​