Why do SDA preach

MMXX said:

Okay that's a good one. Best read with the entire chapter. I'll meditate on it.

I'm not aware of any qualms about that.

There's no dispute I'm aware of that the sabbath was still observed in Jerusalem after the Resurrection.

As mentioned above, I think the whole of Hebrews 4 covers a lot.

Seems "the Lord's Day" is only mentioned in Revelations 1:10. I thought I read some SDA saying "the Lord's Day" is not in the Bible. I know the "the Lord's Day" is usually associated with Sunday. So I'll need to examine that further as well.

So out of those, all of Hebrews 4 and Revelation 1:10 have caught my attention the most.

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One thing I have learned over the years Brian is that generally we cannot know the truth of Gods' Word from debate forums or word of websites. Which is why in our earlier discussion I was asking you with so many different teachings of Christianity out there how can we ever know what God's truth is. Well I asked you this because these was the same dilemma I was facing in my Christian experience. So this post here is only to be a help to provide a few promises from Gods' Word that might be helpful to you so I pray you might be patient and see it through.

The simple answer to finding the truth of Gods' Word is by seeking Jesus for it. God I believe can guide us through His Spirit as we seek him for a knowledge of His truth through His Word. What you have said here is important because I believe each one of us cannot know the truth of Gods' Word unless we seek God in His Word for an understanding of it, laying down what we might think in order for God to be our guide and teacher.

Many do not know it but this is a part of God's new covenant promise to us that he wants to be our guide and teacher so we can know the truth of His Word. I just wanted to leave you with some wonderful promises from Gods' Word that show what I am sharing with you that they might be as helpful to you as they have been to me. God being our teacher is a part of God's new covenant promise as found in Hebrews 8:11. Jesus says if we ask him for His Spirit to be our guide and teacher as we seek Him through His Word He will teach us all thing and bring all things to our remembrance in John 14:26 and when He the Spirit of truth will come he will guide you into all truth *John 16:13. These promises are conditional of course to asking Jesus to be our guide and teacher and asking for His Spirit and claiming his promises. Then Jesus says; If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free *John 8:31-32. (see also 1 John 2:27). Jesus also gives us this promise here; If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself in John 7:17. So even though there are so many different Christian religions in the world today in fulfillment of the very words of Jesus, if we honestly want to seek Jesus to know the truth of His Word he promises to be our guide and teacher and we will know the truth of God and the truth He promises will set us free.

I share these scriptures with you because they are all a part of my testimony. I was never brought up SDA. I only use to read my bible at home and then one day I thought maybe I should go out and find a Church to join. While thinking this I read in my bible that in the last days there will be many false prophets and false Christs that if it were possible they shall deceive God's very elect. When reading this scripture I viewed the false prophets as false messengers and teachers (this is a meaning in the Greek) and Christ is the head of the body which is the church so I was viewing a false Christ as a false Church and all of a sudden I thought to myself there are so many different Christian church's in the world all professing to be Gods' chosen how am I ever going to find the right one?

At this thought I became quite concerned and prayed to God dear God how will I ever know your truth all those Church's in the world cannot be right can they? I believe God guided me to these promises that I have shared with you today from his Word in regards to Him wanting to be my guide and teacher if I only ask Him and seek Him through His Word. It was like he was speaking to me personally in all his promises above and when he said If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself in John 7:17. Anyhow before I made a decision to join any church I asked God if He could show me who His true Church was today according to His Word. '

I started claiming His promises above as I was reading His Word and slowly but surely started learning more of His Word. I asked God, praying dear God thank you for these promises but who is your true Church? I know I cannot find who your true Church is unless you guide me and teach me and show me who they are?

I continued over some time reading God's Word and found these scriptures which seemed to stay with me that seemed to describe who Gods Church was according to the scriptures here...

[1.] God’s people are described as God’s sheep that hear believe and follow Gods Word *John 10:26-27

[2.] God’s people are described as God’s saints that keep the commandments of God and the faith or teachings of Jesus *Revelation 14:12.

[3.] God’s people are described as those who the dragon (devil) is making war with because they keep the commandments of God *Revelation 12:17

[4.] God’s people are described as having the testimony of JESUS which is the Spirit of Prophecy. They know the end day prophecies *Revelation 19:10

[5.] God’s people are described as being blessed because they washed their robes in the blood of the lamb *1 Peter 1:18-19; Revelation 7:14; Revelation 12:11; Revelation 22:14

[6.] God’s people are described as being blessed because they keep Gods commandments and receive eternal life *Revelation 22:14

[7.] God’s people are described as being born again and do not practice sin (breaking Gods’ commandments) *1 John 3:6-9

[8.] The different between the children of God and the children of the devil is that the children of God do not practice sin (breaking God’s commandments) and the children of the devil do *1 John 3:6-10.

……………………….

The question we all must consider is how do we know we know God and are Gods saints according to the scriptures? Well Gods saints are in every Church who are living up to all the light of the knowledge of Gods’ Word that God has revealed to them and in times of ignorance when we do not know any better God winks at but when God gives us a knowledge of His Word he calls all men everywhere to believe and follow it *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; James 4:17.

Many do not know that the religious teachers of the world of fallen away from God’s Word in order to follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God. BABYLON is described as being fallen. The mother church and her daughters *Revelation 14:8; Revelation 17:1-5. She has changed times and law *Danial 7:25 and supplanted her own day of worship for which there is no scripture in place of God’s 4th commandment which is one of God’s 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4.

God has his people in all of these Church’s and is calling his people out of Babylon from following the traditions and teachings of men back to the pure Word of God. *Revelation 18:1-5. The hour is coming and now is that the true worshipers will worship God in Spirit and in truth. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth. *John 10:16; John 4:23-24.

What is the test to know if we know God?

1 John 2:3-4 [3], And HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [4], HE THAT SAITH, I KNOW HIM, AND KEEPETH NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS, IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM

In times of ignorance God winks at but when he gives us a knowledge of the truth of his Word calls all men everywhere to believe and follow. God’s sheep hear His voice (the Word) and follow it.

...............

SUMMARY: I became a Sabbath keeper and SDA because I believe God guided me to this Church through His Word and this is my testimony! God's Church through faith according to the scriptures keep all the commandments of God not some of them according to the scriptures and this is the difference between 99% of all the Churches of the Word. - YES the Sabbath of God's 4th commandment! 99% of the Churches of the Word are not following God's Word. God is calling His people out to return to His Word and follow Him in Spirit and in truth *Revelation 18:4

If your interested you can read my personal testimony here

Hope this is helpful

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ What is it in the new moon appointed times that is no more and was a shadow of things to come? - Animal sacrifices; bunt offering, sin offering, meat offering and drink offerings. *Numbers 28:11-15. What were these "there shadows of things to come? Sound familiar?

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Your response here...

tall73 said:

So you assemble on the new moon, but without the sacrifices? It was only sacrifices that were the shadow?

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What was the reason to assemble on the new moons? Worshiping God and the animal sacrifices right? If these were shadows of things to come and fulfilled and continued in Christ under the new covenant what reason is there now to assemble on the new moons just like the annual Feast days under the new covenant? - There is none.

Hope this is helpful.

tall73 said:

Show me where it says they were only included because of that. It calls in appointed time. It is included in a list of appointed times. And just like the other appointed times it had sacrifices.

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Why? We are talking about the "shadow laws" fulfilled in Christ under the new covenant. All the appointed times under the old covenant including everyday of the week had animal sacrifices for sin offerings. I already provided a detailed scripture response in regards to this in post # 412 linked. These are all "shadow laws" fulfilled and continued in Christ therefore no need to keep full moon feast any longer. Also, as pointed out from the scriptures in other posts already from Genesis 1:14 and Leviticus 23 the other purpose of the new moons was to show the timing of the annual Feast days also connected to the shadow laws of the Levitical Priesthood, earthly Sanctuary, animal sacrifices for remission of sins and atonement all once again fulfilled and continued in Christ in the heavenly Sanctuary under the new covenant that the Lord pitched and not man based on better promises. I think I have provided enough scripture here don't you showing there is no purpose of the new moon feasts in he new covenant don't you? Most of this of course is repetition already presented from scripture already from the previous posts to you.

tall73 said:

Yet we just had a protracted discussion by the Adventists earlier in the thread that it was in fact a time of worship, and an appointed time.

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What was discussed earlier with you and me was the perpetuity of the Sabbath as an everlasting covenant between God and His people as shown in Exodus 31:16 and how it links directly to Isaiah 66:21-23 which proves that the Sabbath will be continued to be kept in the new earth as well as the new moons as a dedication of worship to God. This of course has nothing to do with we we not longer keep new moons today as outlined through the scripture to you in our discussion though the old and new covenant scriptures. So your point here is what? You did not make one.

tall73 said:

You didn't show that. That was my point. You quoted a text talking about the moon, and just supplied the application to the new moon assembly.

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Sorry I respectfully disagree. You were shown from Genesis 1:14 and Leviticus 23:3; 5; 7; 24; 27; 34-36; 39; 41 as well as Numbers 28:9-31; Numbers 29:1-40 and Leviticus 16:5-10 that the purpose of the new moon for times and seasons to show the starting times of God's annual Feast days and the relationship of the new moon feasts to the annual Feasts to the "shadow laws" fulfilled in Christ under the new covenant. All the appointed times under the old covenant including everyday of the week had animal sacrifices for sin offerings that are now not a requirement under the new covenant (see Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27; Hebrews 10:1-10. We have already done over this in some detail now. All your saying here is you disagree with the scriptures shared with you without actually showing why you disagree.

tall73 said:

The plural is a non-starter because the plural is used in Ezekiel 45 in the LXX where the context spells out the weekly Sabbath is included in a parallel listing of appointed times.

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Sorry I respectfully disagree. The plural from Colossians 2:16 and Ezekiel 45:17 shows in both passages that context is to the meat and drink offerings, new moons and the sabbaths (plural) in the Feast days. We of course are talking about all the sabbath under the old covenant linked into the animal sacrifices and feast days. As posted some time ago, beside the "seventh day Sabbath of God's 4th commandment which is simply every "seventh day" of the week meaning it is inside the annual Feast days and outside of the annual Feast days (because it is continually every "seventh day") there were sabbaths that where only annual ceremonial sabbaths that were connected directly to the Feast days that were not Gods' 4th commandment that could fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle. These annual ceremonial shadow sabbaths connected to the Feast days included; (1) Feast of Unleavened Bread (first and last day) *Leviticus 23:6-8 (2) Feast of Trumpets *Leviticus 23:24-25 (3) Day of Atonement *Leviticus 23:27-32 (4) Feast of Booths *Leviticus 23:34-36 (5) Feast of First Fruits *Leviticus 23:39 (6) Feast days of Holy convocation of no work (sabbaton Colossians 2:16 *Leviticus 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36. Your comments here were already addressed in earlier posts to you and are not relevant as no one is arguing the Gods' 4th commandment was not included as a holy convocation (meaning a calling out to a public gathering and sacred place) in the annual Feast days. So I see your argument here as a strawman and a distraction to our conversation as it is an argument that is not relevant to the scriptures being shared with you here.

tall73 said:

And the Sabbath was in fact a memorial of creation--given to Israel as a covenant with them. And it is a sign of God's sanctification--given to Israel. And it was also a memorial of redemption from Egypt (Deut. 5) of Israel. And it also had sacrifices as an appointed time. And it was included in Ezekiel 45, which is a listing of the appointed times, along with reference to sacrifices, and we see the same kind of list in Colossians, but you want to say it is not there. But it is, because it is referring to appointed times and their sacrifices.

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As posted earlier this is a moot point and comes down to who the bible defines who Gods' Israel is in the new covenant. As shown through the scriptures earlier Gods' Israel in the new covenant are no longer all those who are born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham but are now all those who are born of the Spirit through faith in the promises (see Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:28-29; Romans 2:28-29) Therefore Gods' Israel today are simply all those who believe and follow Gods' Word. As shown earlier when Jesus says that the Sabbath was made for all mankind in Mark 2:27 there was no Jews, no Moses, no Israel, no sin and no plan of salvation given because there was no sin only Adam and Eve who were created on the sixth day of the creation week (see Genesis 1:26-31 and Genesis 2:1-3). God's 4th commandment does not say the Sabbath was a memorial of Egypt as shown from the scriptures earlier it says it is a memorial of creation as shown in the wording of the 4th commandment that says in v8 and 11

Exodus 20:8; 11
[8], REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, TO KEEP IT HOLY.

Memorial pointing backwards while the reason is given in v11

[11], FOR IN SIX DAYS THE LORD MADE HEAVEN AND EARTH, THE SEA, AND ALL THAT IN THEM IS, AND RESTED THE SEVENTH DAY: WHEREFORE THE LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, AND MADE IT A HOLY DAY.

Which of course points back to Genesis 2:1-3

Genesis 2:1-3
[1], THUS THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH WERE FINISHED, AND ALL THE HOST OF THEM.
[2], And ON THE SEVENTH DAY GOD ENDED HIS WORK WHICH HE HAD MADE; AND HE RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made.
[3], And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY, AND MADE IT HOLY <THE 7TH DAY>: BECAUSE THAT IN IT HE HAD RESTED FROM ALL HIS WORK WHICH GOD CREATED AND MADE.

You seem to be forgetting that EVERYDAY had animal sacrifices and sin offerings under the old covenant so your argument that the Sabbath had animal sacrifices is a moot point (Numbers 2:-3-8). This was inside and outside the annual Feast days. Your also forgetting that the Sabbath (seventh day) in the Feast day was called a holy convocation so it was different to the normal Sabbath outside of the annual Feast day in that is was a Sabbath that was included in the calling out of God's people to a public gathering to a sacred place. It was included in the annual Feast day because it was weekly and some feasts went longer then seven days or could start on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle. Your also forgetting that God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that are the standard of sin if broken and righteousness when obeyed outside of the annual Feast days.

tall73 said:

The Sabbath is a ceremonial law in the heart of the covenant document with Israel.

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This is more repetition already addressed in some detail from the scriptures already. God's Israel according to the new covenant scriptures are no longer those born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham but are now all those who are born of the Spirit through faith in the promises (Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:28-29; Romans 2:28-29 etc)

All of God's 10 commandments (including God's 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath of creation) are all moral laws. That is they give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172. They are our duty of moral right doing and love to God (first four commandments) and our moral right doing of love to our neighbor (second six commandments) and if we break anyone of them according to the scriptures we stand guilty before God of sin (James 2:10-11). God's 4th commandment therefore is not a ceremonial law as it is a "memorial" that points backwards to the finished works or creation were God commands us to "Remember" *Exodus 20:8 the Sabbath do to keep it holy. It is our duty of love to God and therefore is moral right doing at to how we love God.

At the same time as posted early to you from the scripture, I do agree that there were ceremonial sabbaths in the annual Feast days. These however were not the same as Gods' 4th commandment that is also outside of the old covenant Feast days and were simply annual sabbaths that were linked directly to the annual Feast days and not to a day outside of the Feasts. There annual ceremonial Sabbaths could call on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle unlike God's 4th commandment that was simply every seventh day as a memorial of creation and the annual ceremonial sabbaths were only linked to the annual Feast days. These annual shadow sabbaths connected to the Feast days included; (1) Feast of Unleavened Bread (first and last day) *Leviticus 23:6-8 (2) Feast of Trumpets *Leviticus 23:24-25 (3) Day of Atonement *Leviticus 23:27-32 (4) Feast of Booths *Leviticus 23:34-36 (5) Feast of First Fruits *Leviticus 23:39 (6) Feast days of Holy convocation of no work (sabbaton Colossians 2:16 *Leviticus 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36. Unlike God's 4th commandment that is linked only to the "seventh day" of the week. These ceremonial sabbaths are linked directly to the Feast days and can fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle.

You are mixing up the annual ceremonial "shadow sabbaths" (plural) connected only to the annual Feast days shown to you earlier from *Leviticus 23:6-8; Leviticus 23:24-25; Leviticus 23:27-32; Leviticus 23:34-36; Leviticus 23:39; Leviticus 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36 that are not God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken. Your mixing up the annual ceremonial sabbaths in the Feast days from Colossians 2:16 and Ezekiel 45:17 with Gods' 4th commandment that gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken and is a part of God's eternal law in the new covenant that gives us a knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20: Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4).

tall73 said:

But in Acts 15 and 21, though the Gentiles were included in the promises, and included in the blessings to Abraham, and included in Israel, they were not in fact required to be circumcised and keep the whole law. Throughout the NT they are required to obey moral commandments, including those in the ten. But just as the other memorials for Israel with sacrifices, etc. the Sabbath was included in Colossians 2.

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As posted already the "shadow laws" of circumcision only point to a new heart by faith under the new covenant promise of Hebrews 8:1-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. No where does it talk about God's 10 commandments in Acts of the Apostles 15 or Acts of the Apostles 21 no longer being a requirement for Christian living. Once again your mixing up or making your arguments in "shadow laws" fulfilled and continued in Christ under the new covenant with God's eternal law (10 commandments) that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken and righteousness when obeyed *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4

tall73 said:

Yet we have no record of that being commanded of mankind until Israel, and in the context of a sign and a covenant, and a two way memorial with them. Just as the other appointed times were given to Israel, and most said to be forever statutes for them throughout their generations in all their dwellings.

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According to Jesus the Sabbath was made for mankind in Mark 2:27. The Sabbath was made for man on the "seventh day" of the creation week according to Genesis 2:1-3 while mankind was made on the sixth day of creation according to Genesis 1:26-31. There was no Israel, no Moses, no Jew, no sin and no plan of salvation given because it was not needed because there was no sin when Jesus made the Sabbath for mankind. There was only Adam and Eve (mankind). Your simply making an argument in silence. Yet we know from the scriptures that Gods' people had the spoken Word of God before the written Word of God and they know what sin was as well as Gods' laws (Genesis 26:5).

tall73 said:

No in fact I am not confused. That a memorial, sign, covenant with Israel with attendant sacrifices is ceremonial is manifestly obvious. Now of course it was still very much required of them, and so were the other ceremonial aspects. What is the grain and drink offering for thou shalt not kill? What is the grain and drink offering for thou shalt not commit adultery? Seem silly? That is because those are moral principles, and the Sabbath is a ceremonial aspect in the heart of the covenant document--unique to that people.

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This is more repetition but happy to show again from the scriptures why your claims here are not true. Firstly as posted earlier you seem to be forgetting that animal sacrifices were not only associated with the Sabbaths and the new moons and the Feast days but to EVERY DAY of the week under the old covenant. So if your going to try and make your argument that the Sabbath of God's 4th commandment must be ceremonial under the new covenant because of animal sacrifices then every day of the week must be ceremonial. Obviously in the new covenant that is not true right? So what has changed under the new covenant? It is the Priesthood, the ceremonial Sanctuary laws and animal sacrifices and sin offering for remission of sins that pointed to Jesus that were all "shadows of things to come" (see Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27 and Hebrews 10:1-22. The problem your having and I can see it even if you cannot is that your mixing up the "shadow laws" from the Mosaic book of the covenant (Exodus 24:7) with God's eternal law that under the new covenant gives us the knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4). The Mosiac laws for remission of sins are now fulfilled and continued in Christ to who they pointed to and his ministration in the new covenant on our behalf based on better promises *Hebrews 8:1-6. God's 10 commandment in comparison have the same role they always have and that is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) and to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith (Galatians 3:22-25). Obedience to God's 10 commandments therefore is how love is expressed both to God and our fellow man *Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; Romans 3:31; Romans 8:4; 1 John 3:6-9; Revelation 14:12.

Hope this is helpful.

tall73 said:

He literally says they have become judges with evil thoughts. Jas 2:3 and if you pay attention to the one who wears the fine clothing and say, “You sit here in a good place,” while you say to the poor man, “You stand over there,” or, “Sit down at my feet,” Jas 2:4 have you not then made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? He is applying the principle in the law against partiality.

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No one said in James 2:1-7 that the man was not showing partiality to the rich-man over the poor man. I was in disagreement to your claims that James 2:1-12 is not talking about God's 10 commandments and showing partiality between God's 10 commandment does not make you a transgressor of the law which James 2:1-7 is leading into with James 2:8-12 where James is showing that if we have partiality in the 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin. Therefore this become a little bit of a challenge for you and your friends because you claim that God's 4th commandment is abolished, and we are now to follow the man-made teaching and tradition of Sunday worship now and break God's 4th commandment denying the very warning of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9 that says if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God no matter how much we might try we are not worshiping God. The example of partiality in James 2:1-7 is only leading to James talking about partiality in obeying God's 10 commandments which is the subject matter of James 2:8-12. All your posting here is a distraction to the scriptures teaching that if we break anyone of Gods' 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin. This does not sit well for many because God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandment that many are knowingly breaking by showing partiality to Sunday worship which is a man-made teaching and tradition in preferring to God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments.

tall73 said:

You have it backwards. All the law AND the prophets hang on the two--love God and love your neighbor--not the other way around.

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Well that is not true at all, but allow me to explain why. In Matthew 22:36-40 Jesus is quoting specifically from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 which was a response to which is the great commandment in the law. Jesus responded by saying You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind this is the first great commandment and the second is like to it, you shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

So the two great commandments here are simply summing up the law and the prophets! Paul makes they very clear in Romans 13:8-10 when he say that love is expressed through obedience to God's law and specifically states that loving our neighbor as our self is summing up all those commandments in God's 10 commandments that are to do with how we express our love to our fellow man.

Romans 13:8-10
[8], Owe no man anything, but to LOVE ONE ANOTHER: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW.
[9], For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and IF THERE SHALL BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is BRIEFLY SUMMED UP in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF.
[10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

tall73 said:

The ten, like the other commandments, stem, from those two. Which is why they are the greatest commandments.
TAnd by doing so he is referencing law outside of the ten before he ever mentions the ten:
Jas 2:8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.
Jas 2:9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it.

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No. Your trying to separate love from obedience to Gods' law when Jesus says there is no separation and on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. As shown from the scriptures already love is not separate from Gods 'law it is expressed through obedience to Gods' 10 commandments showing how we are to express both our duty of love to God and our fellow man. The two great commandments therefore are summarizing how love to God and love to man are expressed through the Word of God as an inward action of obedience to God's law in fulfillment of God's new covenant promise in Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-36 and Ezekiel 36:24-27.

Romans 13:8-10
[8], Owe no man anything, but to LOVE ONE ANOTHER: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW.
[9], For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and IF THERE SHALL BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is BRIEFLY SUMMED UP in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF.
[10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

Love is not separate from obedience to Gods' law it is expressed as Paul shows by obeying Gods' law. Therefore to say that we love our fellow man by knowingly lying or stealing from them or saying we love God by knowingly breaking his Sabbath according to the scriptures is not how love is expressed.

As shown in Romans 13:8-10 the royal law "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" is not outside of the 10 commandments. Loving our neighbor as yourself is expressed in obedience to those laws in God's 10 commandments from the heart that show us how we love our fellow man.

James is expressing the same thing when he says...

JAMES 2:8-12
[8], If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:
[9], But if ye have respect to persons, YOU COMMIT SIN, AND ARE CONVINCED OF THE LAW AS TRANSGRESSORS.
[10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit NO ADULTERY, yet if thou KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW
[12], So speak you, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

It is quite clear that the scriptures here teach that if we show partiality to anyone of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin. This includes God's 4th commandment which of course is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4.

tall73 said:

You say you have not argued that they are not. But then you keep talking about the ten being the moral law, and others as supplemental, etc. They were all part of the law. That was the whole point of if you break one point you break the whole thing.

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We hone in on God’s 10 commandments because scripture in James 2:10-11 are specifically talking about God’s 10 commandments. You and your friends focus on anything else accept God’s 10 commandments as a distraction because you know that if the scriptures are talking about the 10 commandments then the 10 commandments here include God’s 4th commandment “seventh day” Sabbath which is one of the 10 commandment and as James says if we show partiality preferring some of God’s 10 commandments over others we stand guilty before God of sin and breaking the whole law.

James 2:10-11 [10], FOR WHOEVER SHALL KEEP THE WHOLE LAW, AND YET OFFEND IN ONE POINT, HE IS GUILTY OF ALL. [11], FOR HE THAT SAID, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, SAID ALSO, DO NOT KILL. NOW IF YOU COMMIT NO ADULTERY, YET IF YOU KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF THE LAW.

This my friend includes Gods’ “seventh day” Sabbath which is God’s 4th commandment that is one of God’s 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4. If we show partiality keeping some of God’s 10 commandments over others we stand guilty before God of sin. Not a place any of us should be in don’t you think?

tall73 said:

Except I have not argued that Paul's list there is wrong. What I have argued is that one of the ten is ceremonial and whatever you do with the other ceremonial laws in Col. 2 you have to do with it. And Ezekiel 45, a similar listing of the appointed times, shows it is included. So I am not making an antinomian argument. Gentiles still have moral requirements. But the Sabbath is not moral but ceremonial.

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Your trying to argue Paul's list is wrong by trying to argue that love is separate from Gods' law. As shown in Matthew 22:36-40 and Romans 13:8-10 and James 2:8-12 collectively (we can include also 1 John 5:2-3 here) Love is the new covenant promise that writes Gods' law on the heart so that we become obedient to Gods' law so love therefore is expressed in obedience to those laws in God's 10 commandments and His Word showing how we love our neighbor and those laws in God's 10 commandments and His Word showing how we love God. Of course Gods 4th commandments is one of Gods' 10 commandments and our duty of love to God and is why Jesus says If you love me keep my commandments; If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. (John 14:15: John 15:10). Let's close here with John.
1 John 5:2-3 [3], For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.[4], For whatever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith. Love is not separate from God's law it is expressed through obedience to Gods' law written on the heart which is God's new covenant promise to all those who believe and follow His Word. This also includes Gods' 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments.

Hope this is helpful.

tall73 said:

It is relevant because you don't actually DO all the commandments. James, etc. did. The gentiles were not required to.

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Actually it is not relevant as no one is required under the new covenant to keep any one of the "shadow laws" fulfilled and continued in Christ under the new covenant based on better promises *Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27 and Hebrews 10:1-22. Gentiles are not a part of God's kingdom. God's Israel under the new covenant is no longer those born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham but all those who through faith are born of the Spirit according to the promise (Romans 9:6-8; Romans 2:28-29; Galatians 3:28-29). If you are not a part of God's Israel who are now all those who believe and follow God's Word you have no part in God's new covenant promise which is to Israel *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31:36 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. God did not make a covenant with Gentiles but with Israel defined in the new covenant as all those who have been born of the Spirit to believe and follow Gods' Word.

tall73 said:

No, He gave them the law by which one lives if they do it. THEN moreover He gave them a sign.

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No. The law included the Sabbath (Exodus 20:1-17). The "addition" in Ezekiel 20:11-13 is that the Sabbath was not only one of Gods 10 commandments but it was also a sign to God's people that they worship the only true God of creation and it is God who sanctifies them.

Ezekiel 20:11-13
[11], AND I GAVE THEM MY STATUTES, AND SHOWED THEM MY JUDGMENTS, WHICH IF A MAN DO, HE SHALL EVEN LIVE IN THEM.
[12], MOREOVER (Further more; continuing from what was stated in v11) ALSO I GAVE THEM MY SABBATHS, TO BE A SIGN BETWEEN ME AND THEM, THAT THEY MIGHT KNOW THAT I AM THE LORD THAT SANCTIFY THEM (another reason the Sabbath was given to God’s people).
[13], But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury on them in the wilderness, to consume them.

So according to the scriptures God made the Sabbath commandment a sign to God's people that they worship the only true God of creation and it is God who sanctifies them.

tall73 said:

But Acts 15 and 21 did not place all the law on the Gentiles. And the Jewish believers went on keeping all of it--not just the ten. But you don't. So if you are Israel, you should be trying to get back to Jerusalem for Pentecost like Paul was. And that was quite some time after Jesus fulfilled the sacrifices of that feast.
Gentiles are included in the promise. They are not required to keep all the law:
Act 15:5 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses.”
Act 15:6 The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter.
The issue was whether they had to be circumcised and keep the law of Moses.
And the decision that went out did not in fact require them to:
23 They wrote this letter by them: The apostles, the elders, and the brethren, To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: Greetings. 24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment— 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

Farewell.

Then in Acts 21, quite some time later, the same is reiterated. It is stated that James and the Jewish bretheren are zealous for the law. And in this case it is made even more clear that Paul was accused of turning Jewish believers from circumcision and the customs of the Jewish people. And this included aspects of the law because the plan was to make plain Paul also kept the law. But again there was no issue with him in regards to gentile believers, and they reiterate they were not required to do these things.

Act 21:17 When we had come to Jerusalem, the brothers received us gladly.
Act 21:18 On the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present.
Act 21:19 After greeting them, he related one by one the things that God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.
Act 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified God. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed. They are all zealous for the law,
Act 21:21 and they have been told about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or walk according to our customs.
Act 21:22 What then is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come.
Act 21:23 Do therefore what we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow;
Act 21:24 take these men and purify yourself along with them and pay their expenses, so that they may shave their heads. Thus all will know that there is nothing in what they have been told about you, but that you yourself also live in observance of the law.
Act 21:25 But as for the Gentiles who have believed, we have sent a letter with our judgment that they should abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality.”
Indeed, the covenant was with Israel. And gentiles were included in that by faith. But Acts 15 and 21 spells out they didn't have the same requirements.

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You could have saved yourself some time here as your making argument again that no one is making. No one said that all the law was placed on new covenant believers. As posted already the "shadow laws" of circumcision only point to a new heart by faith under the new covenant promise of Hebrews 8:1-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. No where does it talk about God's 10 commandments in Acts of the Apostles 15 or Acts of the Apostles 21 no longer being a requirement and the standard for Christian living. Once again your mixing up or making your arguments in "shadow laws" fulfilled and continued in Christ under the new covenant with God's eternal laws (10 commandments) that under the new covenant give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken and righteousness when obeyed *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4

Hope this is helpful.

tall73 said:

a. the same thing you do with those needs to be done with the weekly Sabbath, listed in Ezek. 45 and in Col. 2.
b. Paul still wanted to be back in Jerusalem for Pentecost, long after Jesus' death.
You do not in fact keep all the law as the brothers with James did, or as Paul did.
Now you said with the new moon the only part that was a shadow was the sacrifices. Why wouldn't you apply that to the appointed times if you are a Jew spiritually? And yet Paul didn't dispute the plan offered, or that he lived in observance of the law.

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No. Not at all. As shown through the scriptures earlier Gods 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments in the new covenant that give us the knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4) and according to the scriptures if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. Your continuing to mix up the annual ceremonial sabbaths only found in the annual Feast days that are not God's 4th commandment (see Leviticus 23:6-8; Leviticus 23:24-25; Leviticus 23:27-32; Leviticus 23:34-36; Leviticus 23:39; Leviticus 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36) with God's 4th commandment which is God's eternal law being a part of God's 10 commandments that is an everlasting covenant continued in the new earth (Exodus 31:16; Isaiah 66:22-23). As shown through the scriptures earlier the annual ceremonial sabbaths (plural) are only linked to the annual Feast days where as Gods' 4th commandment is every seventh day of the week on a continuous weekly cycle. So your mixing up the ceremonial "shadow sabbaths" in the Feast days with God's eternal Sabbath that is a perpetual covenant to Gods' people *Exodus 31:16 that will be continued to be kept in the new earth *Isaiah 66:22-23. All the Sabbaths (plural including the 4th commandment), new moons, animal sacrifices, meat and drink offerings connected to the Feast days are no more because the Feast days are no longer a requirement under the new covenant. That does not mean God's 4th commandment is not a requirement because it has always been outside of the Feast days as an everlasting covenant and is God's 4th commandment given at creation to all mankind that God calls his people to keep as a holy day of rest. You have been shown in some detail now that Colossians 2:16 and Ezekiel 45:17 show the context to the shadow laws here is to the meat and the drink offerings, the new moons and the sabbaths (plural) in the annual Feast days. Not God's 4th commandment that gives us the knowledge of what sin is in the new covenant (Romans 3:4; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4). Your mixing up God's eternal law with God's shadow laws of things to come under God's new covenant promise.

HAPPY SABBATH!

Wackadoodledo!!!!!

1 John 2:3-4 like all of first John, is about Christ and being a follower of Christ. It's about knowing you are saved through Christ, and about following the commandments Christ gave in the four gospels. No Christian follows all of the commandments given to Israel through Moses. There are hundreds of those commandments. And there are few who can name all of them from memory. If anyone can quote a hundred of them, they've done well. But that still leaves hundreds more. If someone obeys five hundred of the commandments given by Moses, they've done quite well. But that still leaves over a hundred commandments they broke. And God said that if you break just one of the commandments He gave through Moses, you have broken all of them.

Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them. Deuteronomy 27:26

Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:19

Whoever keeps the whole law but stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. James 2:10

The Law is not limited to 10 commandments. Or 100 commandments. But ALL of the commandments. The entire Law down to the smallest bit of it.

MMXX said:

1 John 2:3-4 like all of first John, is about Christ and being a follower of Christ. It's about knowing you are saved through Christ, and following the commandments Christ gave in the four gospels. No Christian follows all of the commandments given to Israel through Moses. There are hundreds of those commandments. And there are few who can name all of them from memory. If anyone can quote a hundred of them, they've done well. But that still leaves hundreds more. If someone obeys five hundred of the commandments given by Moses, they've done quite well. But that still leaves over a hundred commandments they broke. And God said that if you break just one of the commandments He gave through Moses, you have broken all of them.

Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them. Deuteronomy 27:26

Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:19

Whoever keeps the whole law but stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. James 2:10

The Law is not limited to 10 commandments. Or 100 commandments. But ALL of the commandments. The entire Law down to the smallest bit of it.

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According to the scriptures we know God by keeping his commandments (1 John 2:3-4). Those who say they know God and do not keep us commandments are lying and the truth is not in them. Sin which is defined in the scriptures as knowingly breaking anyone of Gods' 10 commandments (James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20; see also James 4:17 and Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil according to John in 1 John 3:6-10. Those who are born of God according to these scriptures do not practice sin (breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments) leading to a people that follow God who obey His commandments (see Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14; 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:2-3). Saying the law is not limited to God's 10 commandments is an argument no one is making and is a distraction. That said we are in the new covenant now not the old covenant and many of the "shadow laws" of the old covenant are now fulfilled and continued in Christ to who they pointed to (all the laws of the Levitical Priesthood, all the laws of animal sacrifices and sin offerings, all the laws of the Sanctuary and it's annual Feast days, circumcision etc etc). The argument here is God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken and righteousness is when obeyed. Brake one you brake them all (James 2:10-11). No one can claim to know God according to the scriptures by knowingly breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments which are our duty of love to God and our fellow man.

May God bless you as you seek Him through his Word

I read that using electricity and writing is forbidden during the Sabbath.
That building or creating anything, like creating a post, is forbidden during the Sabbath.

MMXX said:

I read that using electricity and writing is forbidden during the Sabbath.
That building or creating anything, like creating a post, is forbidden during the Sabbath.

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Is it wrong to do good and God's Work on the Sabbath Brian? - see Matthew 12:1-8

"James 2:10-11" keeps being posted as being about keeping ten commandments. But ten commandments is only a mere 1.63% of the Whole Law James said we have to keep. I'm sure it's very inconvenient, but the Whole Law is 100% of the Law.

It seems like a lot of loopholes are created as an excuse for not keeping the Whole Law.

MMXX said:

"James 2:10-11" keeps being posted as being about keeping ten commandments. But ten commandments is only a mere 1.63% of the Whole Law James said we have to keep. I'm sure it's very inconvenient, but the Whole Law is 100% of the Law.

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James 2:10-11 keeps being posted Brian because it is talking specifically about the 10 commandments and quotes them saying if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of breaking all of them. Of course in the new covenant now no one practices the "shadow laws" of remission of sins no fulfilled and continued in Christ based on better promises.

MMXX said:

It seems like a lot of loopholes are created as an excuse for not keeping the Whole Law.

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True. Many people use this argument as a distraction to breaking God's 4th commandment "seventh day" Sabbath. I do not know they are loopholes though more than trying to find excuses not to believe and follow God's word. (see what Jesus says in John 3:19-21). We do not need to worry though because Jesus says; If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. (John 7:17). You do know under the new covenant we do not need to follow the old covenant Mosiac laws of animal sacrifices and sin offerings through a Levitical Priest under an earthly Sanctuary, the annual Feast days, including circumcision today right Brian? These alone are about 60% of the old testament laws that are now fulfilled and continued in Christ and God's plan of salvation for all mankind under the new covenant (see Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27 and Hebrews 10:1-22).

LoveGodsWord said:

James 2:10-11 keeps being posted Brian because it is talking specifically about the 10 commandments and quotes them saying if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of breaking all of them. Of course in the new covenant now no one practices the "shadow laws" of remission of sins no fulfilled and continued in Christ based on better promises.

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It is talking specifically about the 10 commandments. What proof is there of that?

MMXX said:

It is talking specifically about the 10 commandments. What proof is there of that?

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James 2:10-11 mentions them. The subject matter is the 10 commandments here you go look (highlighted in red)

James 2:10-11 [10], FOR WHOEVER SHALL KEEP THE WHOLE LAW, AND YET OFFEND IN ONE POINT, HE IS GUILTY OF ALL. [11], FOR HE THAT SAID, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, SAID ALSO, DO NOT KILL. NOW IF YOU COMMIT NO ADULTERY, YET IF YOU KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF THE LAW.

These are two of God's 10 commandments found in Exodus 20:1-17.

Look here...

1. Thou shalt not kill (Exodus 20:13)
2. Thou shalt not commit adultery (Exodus 20:14)

Hope this is helpful.

LoveGodsWord said:

James 2:10-11 mentions them. The subject matter is the 10 commandments here you go look (highlighted in red)

James 2:10-11 [10], FOR WHOEVER SHALL KEEP THE WHOLE LAW, AND YET OFFEND IN ONE POINT, HE IS GUILTY OF ALL. [11], FOR HE THAT SAID, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, SAID ALSO, DO NOT KILL. NOW IF YOU COMMIT NO ADULTERY, YET IF YOU KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF THE LAW.

These are two of God's 10 commandments found in Exodus 20:1-17.

Look here...

1. Thou shalt not kill (Exodus 20:13)
2. Thou shalt not commit adultery (Exodus 20:14)

Hope this is helpful.

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I figured that was the reasoning.

What say you regarding:

It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. 2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
Galatians 5:1-6

It sounds like being under obligation to keep the Whole Law is a bad position to be in. Now is Paul saying under obligation to keep the Ten Commandments? Or the Whole Law? Both Paul and James use the same words for "Whole Law" ὅλον νόμον.

MMXX said:

I figured that was the reasoning.

What say you regarding:

It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. 2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
Galatians 5:1-6

It sounds like being under obligation to keep the Whole Law is a bad position to be in. Now is Paul saying under obligation to keep the Ten Commandments? Or the Whole Law? Both Paul and James use the same words for "Whole Law" ὅλον νόμον.

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"Circumcision" is not one of God's 10 commandments. Circumcision is a "shadow law" from the old covenant of a new heart by faith representing the new covenant promise of Hebrews 8:10-12 and is not a requirement in the new covenant as posted earlier. Circumcision is also not one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken.

As Paul says in 1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing but the keeping of the commandments of God and again in Romans 3:28-29 [28], For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:[29], But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

So Brian, if James 2:10-11 says if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin how do you think that compares with the majority of Christianity who only keeps some of them?

Hope this is helpful

LoveGodsWord said:

"Circumcision" is not one of God's 10 commandments. Circumcision is a "shadow law" from the old covenant of a new heart by faith representing the new covenant promise of Hebrews 8:10-12 and is not a requirement in the new covenant as posted earlier. Circumcision is also not one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken.

As Paul says in 1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing but the keeping of the commandments of God and again in Romans 3:28-29 [28], For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:[29], But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

So Brian, if James 2:10-11 says if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin how do you think that compares with the majority of Christianity who only keeps some of them?

Hope this is helpful

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I figured you'd focus circumcision instead of addressing my actual question.

What do you think was Paul talking about when he said:

"under obligation to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace"?

Is Paul saying that being under obligation to keep the whole law (Galatians 5:3; James 2:10) is a good thing or a bad thing?