Why do SDA preach

SabbathBlessings · Jul 27, 2021

tall73 said:
In context Psalm 89:34 is talking about the covenant with the house of David, fulfilled in Christ, who reigns on David's throne.

Psa 89:1 A Maskil of Ethan the Ezrahite. I will sing of the steadfast love of the LORD, forever; with my mouth I will make known your faithfulness to all generations.
Psa 89:2 For I said, “Steadfast love will be built up forever; in the heavens you will establish your faithfulness.”
Psa 89:3 You have said, “I have made a covenant with my chosen one; I have sworn to David my servant:
Psa 89:4 ‘I will establish your offspring forever, and build your throne for all generations.’” Selah
Psa 89:5 Let the heavens praise your wonders, O LORD, your faithfulness in the assembly of the holy ones!
Psa 89:6 For who in the skies can be compared to the LORD? Who among the heavenly beings is like the LORD,
Psa 89:7 a God greatly to be feared in the council of the holy ones, and awesome above all who are around him?
Psa 89:8 O LORD God of hosts, who is mighty as you are, O LORD, with your faithfulness all around you?
Psa 89:9 You rule the raging of the sea; when its waves rise, you still them.
Psa 89:10 You crushed Rahab like a carcass; you scattered your enemies with your mighty arm.
Psa 89:11 The heavens are yours; the earth also is yours; the world and all that is in it, you have founded them.
Psa 89:12 The north and the south, you have created them; Tabor and Hermon joyously praise your name.
Psa 89:13 You have a mighty arm; strong is your hand, high your right hand.
Psa 89:14 Righteousness and justice are the foundation of your throne; steadfast love and faithfulness go before you.
Psa 89:15 Blessed are the people who know the festal shout, who walk, O LORD, in the light of your face,
Psa 89:16 who exult in your name all the day and in your righteousness are exalted.
Psa 89:17 For you are the glory of their strength; by your favor our horn is exalted.
Psa 89:18 For our shield belongs to the LORD, our king to the Holy One of Israel.
Psa 89:19 Of old you spoke in a vision to your godly one, and said: “I have granted help to one who is mighty; I have exalted one chosen from the people.
Psa 89:20 I have found David, my servant; with my holy oil I have anointed him,
Psa 89:21 so that my hand shall be established with him; my arm also shall strengthen him.
Psa 89:22 The enemy shall not outwit him; the wicked shall not humble him.
Psa 89:23 I will crush his foes before him and strike down those who hate him.
Psa 89:24 My faithfulness and my steadfast love shall be with him, and in my name shall his horn be exalted.
Psa 89:25 I will set his hand on the sea and his right hand on the rivers.
Psa 89:26 He shall cry to me, ‘You are my Father, my God, and the Rock of my salvation.’
Psa 89:27 And I will make him the firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth.
Psa 89:28 My steadfast love I will keep for him forever, and my covenant will stand firm for him.
Psa 89:29 I will establish his offspring forever and his throne as the days of the heavens.
Psa 89:30 If his children forsake my law and do not walk according to my rules,
Psa 89:31 if they violate my statutes and do not keep my commandments,
Psa 89:32 then I will punish their transgression with the rod and their iniquity with stripes,
Psa 89:33 but I will not remove from him my steadfast love or be false to my faithfulness.
Psa 89:34 I will not violate my covenant or alter the word that went forth from my lips.
Psa 89:35 Once for all I have sworn by my holiness; I will not lie to David.
Psa 89:36 His offspring shall endure forever, his throne as long as the sun before me.
Psa 89:37 Like the moon it shall be established forever, a faithful witness in the skies.” Selah
Psa 89:38 But now you have cast off and rejected; you are full of wrath against your anointed.
Psa 89:39 You have renounced the covenant with your servant; you have defiled his crown in the dust.
Psa 89:40 You have breached all his walls; you have laid his strongholds in ruins.
Psa 89:41 All who pass by plunder him; he has become the scorn of his neighbors.
Psa 89:42 You have exalted the right hand of his foes; you have made all his enemies rejoice.
Psa 89:43 You have also turned back the edge of his sword, and you have not made him stand in battle.
Psa 89:44 You have made his splendor to cease and cast his throne to the ground.
Psa 89:45 You have cut short the days of his youth; you have covered him with shame. Selah
Psa 89:46 How long, O LORD? Will you hide yourself forever? How long will your wrath burn like fire?
Psa 89:47 Remember how short my time is! For what vanity you have created all the children of man!
Psa 89:48 What man can live and never see death? Who can deliver his soul from the power of Sheol? Selah
Psa 89:49 Lord, where is your steadfast love of old, which by your faithfulness you swore to David?
Psa 89:50 Remember, O Lord, how your servants are mocked, and how I bear in my heart the insults of all the many nations,
Psa 89:51 with which your enemies mock, O LORD, with which they mock the footsteps of your anointed.
Psa 89:52 Blessed be the LORD forever! Amen and Amen.

What God says from God's own mouth is final and cannot be altered or broken. Psalm 111:7, 8,Proverbs 30:5,6 This includes God's holy laws that God personally wrote and is stored in the ark of the Most Holy in God's Temple. God did not leave His laws to be written by anyone else, While His holy law has been trampled on by man and the unbelievers, God's saints keep God's laws which is why the devil even through this very medium goes to war with God's saints who keep and love God's commandments. Revelation 12:14, Revelations 14:12

Albion · Jul 27, 2021

mmksparbud said:
Again, history, even the Catholic church itself proves otherwise.

On the contrary, the schedule of worship services that the Catholic Church uses, probably in your own community as well as the others, shows that the Sabbath has not been moved. The church not only has Sunday Masses but the church also has Mass late on Saturday, which fulfils the members' weekly obligation as well as the Sunday ones...and the logic behind that scheduling is that Saturday is the Sabbath.

Again, it is the whole NT and OT that makes up God's word.

That is correct to say. Wouldn't it be helpful for this discussion if it were reflected in all the Sabbatarian replies when the point is raised?

There's no denying that, in post after post on these forums, Sabbatarians post that the Commandments make Saturday the day of worship and that's all there is to it. Eternal. Never capable of being changed. End of discussion. That's all.

That's the way they apparently think they should argue their POV.

EXCEPT THAT, the New Testament gives us a mountain of information about the church that Our Lord established, and included in it is making the first day of the week the principle day of Christian worship. That's the word of God we are referring to.

But this part of the issue is ignored. When I bring it up, the reply I get back is "what verse???" even though this has all been covered before in other threads with the same posters and even though most contributors here know very well what the NT evidence is.

SabbathBlessings · Jul 27, 2021

Saturday night is not Sabbath. The Sabbath is from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown. Lev 23:32

The Sabbath is more than just filling an obligation, which makes it sound like a burden instead of the delight it supposed be and is. The majority of the Catholic services are on Sunday. That is the day that is their priority, not God's seventh day Sabbath, that He asked us to keep holy.

SabbathBlessings · Jul 27, 2021

Albion said:
On the contrary, the schedule of worship services that the Catholic Church uses, probably in your own community as well as the others, shows that the Sabbath has not been moved. The church not only has Sunday Masses but the church also has Mass late on Saturday, which fulfils the members' weekly obligation as well as the Sunday ones...and the logic behind that scheduling is that Saturday is the Sabbath.

That is correct to say. Wouldn't it be helpful for this discussion if it were reflected in all the Sabbatarian replies when the point is raised?

There's no denying that, in post after post on these forums, Sabbatarians post that the Commandments make Saturday the day of worship and that's all there is to it. Eternal. Never capable of being changed. End of discussion. That's all.

That's the way they apparently think they should argue their POV.

EXCEPT THAT, the New Testament gives us a mountain of information about the church that Our Lord established, and included in it is making the first day of the week the principle day of Christian worship. That's the word of God we are referring to.

But this part of the issue is ignored. When I bring it up, the reply I get back is "what verse???" even though this has all been covered before in other threads with the same posters and even though most contributors here know very well what the NT evidence is.

You keep making statements that are never supported with scriptures. Where does Jesus tell His disciples to break God's commandments and teach everyone else?

God told His disciples to make His church on His Word. Jesus is the Rock and the disciples and Jesus all kept the Sabbath. I posted a lot of scripture of the disciples and Jesus keeping the Sabbath in the NT. We are told to follow Jesus as our example which goes with the consistency of the scriptures and God's holy law.

LoveGodsWord · Jul 27, 2021

MMXX said:
I agree with assembling of ourselves together with believers of like mind. But I've done that by attending church on Saturdays, Sundays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays. And home Bible studies. And I think even being on this forum has been a way of assembling, especially during the Covid shutdown.

And I'm sure the Apostles were quite active within the church most days a week. And I doubt the early congregations only got together for a couple of hours once a week. Many gathered together in each other's homes.

But anyways you having said that, the argument over the Sabbath being a day of worship seems moot. Because I don't think there's any objection to worshipping on the Sabbath. But rather there's an objection to the idea that you MUST attend a Seventh Day Adventist Church on Saturday or else you are disobeying the 4th Commandment.

I believe we should continually be worshipping God, and His praise should be continually be on our lips, per Psalms 34.

Hi MMXX, I agree that the Apostles in the early Church met together every day of the week according to the scriptures worshiping God Acts of the Apostles 2:46-47. This of course does not make every day of the week a holy day of rest according to God's 4th commandment *Exodus 20:8-10 now does it? The disciples met everyday of the week but still obeyed Gods' 4th commandment according to the scriptures (e.g. Acts of the Apostles 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2). I was not aware that anyone here has ever said to you that you must attend a SDA Church on Saturday or you are disobeying God's 4th commandment and would be a little surprised if someone said that to you. That of course is not biblical. Did someone actually say that to you?

ozso · Jul 27, 2021

It seems to me that church on Sunday is probably more of a Protestant invention. Catholic churches (at lest the bigger ones) seem to operate 7 days a week. It's the Protestant churches that appear to be closed most of the time. There's a big SDA church I walk by from time to time and I don't recall ever seeing cars in the parking lot or any activity going on.

Albion · Jul 27, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
Saturday night is not Sabbath.

I didn't say anything about "Saturday night." I said "late on Saturday."

These services are not in the morning as is customary but later in the afternoon.

Adventist Dissident · Jul 27, 2021

MMXX said:
It seems to me that church on Sunday is probably more of a Protestant invention. Catholic churches (at lest the bigger ones) seem to operate 7 days a week. It's the Protestant churches that appear to be closed most of the time. There's a big SDA church I walk by from time to time and I don't recall ever seeing cars in the parking lot or any activity going on.

that seems to follow the OT model

Albion · Jul 27, 2021

MMXX said:
It seems to me that church on Sunday is probably more of a Protestant invention.

But the practice of worship on the first day of the week, the Lord's Day, is referred to in the New Testament, and that precedes Protestantism by over a thousand years. Besides, we have ordinary history showing that Sunday worship has been the standard since ancient times.

Adventist Dissident · Jul 27, 2021

Albion said:
But the practice of worship on the first day of the week, the Lord's Day, is referred to in the New Testament, and that precedes Protestantism by over a thousand years. Besides, we have ordinary history showing that Sunday worship has been the standard since ancient times.

that is problematic for SDA teaching, most SDA's will ignore that or try to reinterpret that as meaning Sabbath because they don't know what to do with it, because they think it undermines their claim to the Sabbath and mark of the beast. Properly understood there is No conflict and it does not under mine the SDA teaching.

Albion · Jul 27, 2021

icedragon101 said:
that is problematic for SDA teaching, most SDA's will ignore that or try to reinterpret that as meaning Sabbath because they don't know what to do with it, because they think it undermines their claim to the Sabbath and mark of the beast.

Sure. They have been taught a different account of things. But there are relatively few Sabbatarians in the world, just as there are relatively few denominations whose people own everything in common or believe that the Second Coming of Christ has already taken place. It makes for spirited debates on forums like this one, but otherwise the Christian world continues on its course.

ozso · Jul 27, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi MMXX, I agree that the Apostles in the early Church met together every day of the week according to the scriptures worshiping God Acts of the Apostles 2:46-47. This of course does not make every day of the week a holy day of rest according to God's 4th commandment *Exodus 20:8-10 now does it? The disciples met everyday of the week but still obeyed Gods' 4th commandment according to the scriptures (e.g. Acts of the Apostles 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2).

I case you missed me saying so, I observe the Sabbath. I put aside any labors and restrict my activities to keep it holy. Not that I'm into doing unholy things the rest of the week, but I'm extra strict during the Sabbath. And I make sure to pray and worship. So it's not like I'm anti-sabbath. So I have no reason to deny any New Testimement scripture saying Christians kept the Sabbath. If it's there. Now those verses in Acts you gave, are not telling me the disciples kept the Sabbath. I'm not arguing they didn't. I'm just saying I don't see those verses really saying they did. And the real question is, is there anything about the churches Paul wrote his letters to keeping the Sabbath or any instruction for them to do so? I'll go over those whole chapters in Acts to see if my mind is changed any. I'm perfectly open to having my mind changed regarding this.

LoveGodsWord said:
I was not aware that anyone here has ever said to you that you must attend a SDA Church on Saturday or you are disobeying God's 4th commandment and would be a little surprised if someone said that to you. That of course is not biblical. Did someone actually say that to you?

That's the impression I got.

Major1 · Jul 27, 2021

icedragon101 said:
is proof that the Christ will rule and regin in Jerusalem for 1000 years and we are to wait for God to establish that regin, in stead of trying to do it ourselves, this is the prophetic basis of Sabbath being the seal of God and sunday being the mark of the beast. The church will try to do that job it's self, instead of wait for God to do it. the will over step the boundry between religious worship and moral obediance, they will force religious observance, not just moral behavior.

I do not agree. You are simply quoting SDA teachings given to you without any Scripture to validate it.

What happens in eternity can not be applied to todays life. I agree 100% that the keeping of the Sabbath was important...to the Jews. But Christ was the end of that direction and with Him began a New Covenant based on HIM and not the law.

"THEN" in the eternal state there will be NO presence of sin to taint our existence there in as there is today.

Again......ALL SDA followers such as yourself really place way too much weight on the Saturday-Sunday thing. There are many, many more theological concerns that you could spend your energy on.

ozso · Jul 27, 2021

Albion said:
But the practice of worship on the first day of the week, the Lord's Day, is referred to in the New Testament, and that precedes Protestantism by over a thousand years. Besides, we have ordinary history showing that Sunday worship has been the standard since ancient times.

What I should have said was Sunday morning only. I live downtown were there's a lot of churches I walk by, and it seems most of them say they're open Sunday morning. And that's it.

I agree the the main church day pretty close to day one has been Sunday, because that's the day the Resurrection took place. That's the day the Risen Christ appeared to His disciples. How can that not be a Holy Day?

But I suppose the idea is the Catholics hatched some insidious plot to change the Sabbath day in order to...?

Major1 · Jul 27, 2021

icedragon101 said:
Exodus 19 & 20

moedim's were set up at creation, not exodus therefore we conclude that the appointment of the Sabbath was the time God came to visit.

The biblical chapter that summarizes these festival days, these moedim, is Leviticus 23. Most specifically, Leviticus 23:1-4. (Note: Moedim is translated as “appointed times” in verses 2 and 4.)

The Lord spoke to Moses: “Speak to the Israelites and tell them: These are My appointed times, the times of the Lord that you will proclaim as sacred assemblies. Work may be done for six days, but on the seventh day there must be a Sabbath of complete rest, a sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; it is a Sabbath to the Lord wherever you live. These are the Lord's appointed times, the sacred assemblies you are to proclaim at their appointed times.” (HCSB) (emphasis ours)

The remainder of Leviticus 23 discusses the moedim, the holy days, in their sequence through the year.

Same question my friend. What is the Scripture basis? Leviticus 23 they are call appointment. So God makes an appointment he comes for a visit.

nice way of trying to pit the God against the holy spirit, but it won't work when you look at what God says he is trying to accomplish. The restoration of the Garden of Eden. in order to do that you need 3 things a holy people, a holy place and a holy time. Do you find it curious that Jesus did his work on the sabbath. He specifically set out to cause a problem and show his Lordship over the sin and creation on the Sabbath day. His first act of power was at a party, celebrating a creation ordinance.

Incorrect!

There is nothing in Exodus 19 or 20 that says ..........
""worship can be done on any day, but God does not come for a visit on any day other day".

Posting something does not make it true!

You did not specify a number of that Scripture and I can only assume that is because there is none.

You are welcome to use the word "moedim" in an effort to validate a false dicomimy but it is not valid.

HOLY days and feat days are not the point. Those are times and events given to and for the Jews and they play NO part in the life of the Christian.

Albion · Jul 27, 2021

MMXX said:
What I should have said was Sunday morning only. I live downtown were there's a lot of churches I walk by, and it seems most of them say they're open Sunday morning. And that's it.

I do acknowledge that issue, but is it a "Protestant" thing? Not likely. So why is it a Catholic thing to have daily Mass? Well, Catholic teaching holds that Mass is something more than just the celebration of the Lord's Supper, and consequently it's required of every priest to say Mass every day. Of course, it's usual to have these be open to the public.

But really, most of the weekday Masses are without a sermon and are attended--in most communities and parishes--by only a handful of people. Protestants don't view the ministry that way or the worship services either, but they often do have Wednesday evening worship and/or Bible Study, which is quite important in some denominations, so it's not necessarily a week with nothing happening.

Major1 · Jul 27, 2021

mmksparbud said:
Bottom line, the Sabbath is a commandment from God---the New moon is not a commandment! Will it be observed on the new earth---apparently so. but it is not a commandment for this earth---the Sabbath is. And you have to understand what you read---all festivals were called sabbaths. But there was only one---THE SABBATH--

LOL!!--- You take one verse to determine doctrines!!?? Read the whole book of Revaluation!!! IT IS TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY ABOUT WORSHIP!

You are correct. There is no argument from me. However, to say that must then mean that you are a JEW.

Genesis 2:2-3.......
" By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day HE rested from all HIS work. Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it HE rested from all the work of creating that HE had done."

READ the Scripture. There is NO commandment made to the people and no mention of the word SABBATH. GOD rested not man.

The WORD SABBATH does not appear in Scripture until Exodus 20:8-10 when God spoke to the children of ISRAEL and told them.......
“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns.”

In the 2nd reading of the Law in Deuteronomy 5:12 God told those very same people....
“Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the LORD your God has commanded you.”

First, salvation is by faith in Christ alone. It’s not kept by things that you do.

Second, early Christians met on the first day of the week. They met on Sunday in honor of the resurrection of Christ. Nowhere in Scripture does it say that the Sabbath changed from Saturday to Sunday.

Acts 20:7..........
“On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight.”

Sabbath was originally given to the Jewish people. It pointed to a future day when Jesus would die on a cross. In the Old Testament, man approached God on the basis of animal sacrifice. He fell short.

Adventist Dissident · Jul 27, 2021

Major1 said:
I do not agree. You are simply quoting SDA teachings given to you without any Scripture to validate it.

I am not quoting sda teaching, because that is not sda teaching. As far as scripture goes. I was commenting on a scripture passage. so I did not need to quote it again. I think people are able to view context for themselves. I won't do the work for you.

[qoute]What happens in eternity can not be applied to todays life. I agree 100% that the keeping of the Sabbath was important...to the Jews. But Christ was the end of that direction and with Him began a New Covenant based on HIM and not the law.[/qoute]Now who is quoting Evagelical theology without biblical or even historical evidence.

"THEN" in the eternal state there will be NO presence of sin to taint our existence there in as there is today.

Again......ALL SDA followers such as yourself really place way too much weight on the Saturday-Sunday thing. There are many, many more theological concerns that you could spend your energy on.

glad you have an opinion, NO one asked you. Don't know why I should adopt it as my own, you have not made the case. Some stranger on the internet shows up and tells me I should change my view, because he says so. OK, all right, I will do that. I will change everything because you said so.

Major1 · Jul 27, 2021

icedragon101 said:
I am not quoting sda teaching, because that is not sda teaching. As far as scripture goes. I was commenting on a scripture passage. so I did not need to quote it again. I think people are able to view context for themselves. I won't do the work for you.

[qoute]What happens in eternity can not be applied to todays life. I agree 100% that the keeping of the Sabbath was important...to the Jews. But Christ was the end of that direction and with Him began a New Covenant based on HIM and not the law.[/qoute]Now who is quoting Evagelical theology without biblical or even historical evidence.

"THEN" in the eternal state there will be NO presence of sin to taint our existence there in as there is today.

glad you have an opinion, NO one asked you. Don't know why I should adopt it as my own, you have not made the case. Some stranger on the internet shows up and tells me I should change my view, because he says so. OK, all right, I will do that. I will change everything because you said so.

No one has to do any work on the Scriptures for me. However, it is always proper and correct and acceptable that if you want others to read what you post of a Scripture, YOU should post the Book, the chapter and verse so as to illiminate any assumptions.

What I gave you was not an opinion. The Scriptures tell us that in heaven there will no sin. WHY did you think that was an opinion?????

I did not tell you to change anything!!!!!!

That comment came from YOU.

When you read the Word of God and feel like something you have been told is wrong......then it is wrong my friend and I have nothing to do with it.

John 17:17...........
"Sanctify them with truth, MY WORD IS TRUTH"!

Adventist Dissident · Jul 27, 2021

Major1 said:
No sir. You can not do that in any way. You can not change what I think as what I KNOW comes from the Word of God and that never changes my friend.

It is that you argue for something that is SDA doctrine and not Bible truth. THAT is the concern.

that is an opinion, and everybody has one.

All of you SDA believers want to keep the Old Testament law, but you are not keeping the law with the same seriousness. In reality.....The commandment of the Sabbath required you to do no work. You couldn’t pick up sticks, you couldn’t travel past a Sabbath’s day journey, you couldn’t go get food on the Sabbath, you could not start a fire, if your mule fell into a ditch you would have to let him drown because the law would not allow you to help him neither would it allow you to save your own child if he fell into that same ditch.

So the question is....why follow the Sanbbath if you will not follow ALL of the Law ??????

That is very hypocritical. Dont you think???

we don't base our observance on the O.T. but out of the Garden of Eden.

Many people want to hold on to the Old Testament styled Sabbath, but do not obey the Old Testament styled Sabbath. Many, I am assuming that YOU are cooking, traveling, going to the market, doing yard work, and more all on the Sabbath. Where do we draw the line?

you keep the sabbath according to the purpose of the sabbath. anything that does not conform to the purpose goes. so that begs the question what is the Sabbath for?[/QUOTE]

Why do SDA preach

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