Why do people try to obey the law when it's not possible

[Gregory Thompson]

It is our fruit that tells the honest tale. If you're not walking in agape love it's because you're walking in your own strength.

 

[disciple1]

Galatians chapter 5 verse 14
The entire law is summed up in a single command love your neighbor as yourself.
Matthew chapter 21 verses 31,32
I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and prostitutes did and even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.
Luke chapter 3 verses 7-9
John said to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?Produce fruit in keeping with repentance, And do not begin to say to yourselves, We have Abraham as our father. For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
James chapter 2 verse 25
In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?

 

[bugkiller]

1 John chapter 1 verse 8 If anyone claims to be without sin they deceive themselves and the truth is not in them.
James chapter 2 verse 10 If anyone keeps the whole law yet stumbles at just one point there guilty of breaking all of it.
Galatians chapter 3 verses 24,25,23
So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith now that faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law before this faith came we were held prisoners by the law locked up until faith should be revealed.

Good question. Maybe they feel safe. I think it appeals to the flesh (pride) as well.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

What? My stove and refrigerator is a person? OH NO!

No they are not people. But if you run even a pilot light you are buying goods and services that require someone to work on your behalf. The fact that they are not physically at your house makes no difference because of the delivery method. They in fact are emplyoeed by your for your personal benefit which is prohibited by the 4th commandment as found in Ex 20:8-11. Same goes for electric and water. What about the modern day ass or ox? Do you ride your beast of burden (vehicle) to worship? This is forbidden by the same commandment. It is very interesting when my sabbatarian neighbor's pick-up is a vehicle and an ox. The law (10 Cs) condemns either way.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

36. "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?"
37. And He said to him, " `you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.”
38. "This is the great and foremost commandment.
39. "The second is like it, `you shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
40. "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."

Do you believe that the ENTIRE Torah of God and the Prophets hang and depend on these two commandments?

Why yeppers I do as a matter of fact. Now exactly how does that obligate the Christian to the defunct law that has no jursidiction?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

You have yet to show me how I'm NOT keeping God's Torah.
The refrigerator argument holds no (cold) water.

No but your buying of electricity to make cold water or perishables does.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Psalm 119.

[1 John 2:3-6]
3. By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4. The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
5. but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:
6. the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
7. Beloved, I am not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard.

Another one who only sees one purpose of the Law? Do you agree with any part of Psalm 119?

So you have a pronoun problem. Whose commandments are we to keep?

John 15:10 - If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

What commandments is Jesus talking about that we are to keep? Which commandments did Jesus keep? I think everyone would say the law and the 10 Cs.

I John 3:23 - And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. Did Jesus say this love one another was a new commandment in John 13:34? Here is the verse - A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

You're probably referring to Luke 24:44 which says: Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."

Not sure if you know this, but Messiah is coming back a second time to fulfill many things that was prophesied and spoken that have YET to be fulfilled.
The fact that He's coming back in and of itself is proof that not EVERYTHING has been accomplished.
Acts 3:18-21 explains this PERFECTLY:
18. "But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled.
19. "Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;
20. and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you,
21. whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.

Messiah fulfilled EVERYTHING concerning His first coming.
He is however coming back to fulfill EVERYTHING concerning His second coming. The restoration of all things is kind of a big deal when it comes to EVERYTHING being accomplished

Yes an all things concerning Him had been fulfilled. Of course this refers to Mat 5:17-18. Jesus said It is finished! John 19:30 Jesus completed His mission successfully and we have salvation. The only other option is to deny we have salvation.
Now to show that a jot or tittle of the law has passed I present Heb 7:12 - For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
If Jesus is your priest the law is changed. If the law is not changed God is a sinner just like you and I. Jesus is from the tribe of Judah and not Levi. He can not be a priest according to the law. This invalidates the common claim made with Mat 5:17-18.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Hold the phone. Do you understand this verse to suggest that the Law of God and the Prophets and their prophecies have “run their course” and are no longer necessary at the time that John’s head was on the plate???

Perhaps that question alone will make you think twice about what you are saying here.
Messiah hadn’t even died when John’s head was on the plate. Messiah went on to teach the correct way of following the Law of God, He continued fulfilling prophecy after prophecy. Basically ALL He did throughout His ministry was fulfill, teach and do what the Law of God and the Prophets directed and prophesied for Him to do. That’s without even getting into the apostles constant usage of the Law of God to teach valuable lessons, and CONSTANT re-iteration of the Prophets to verify Truth.

In fact Revelations 19:10 tells us that the very testimony of Messiah is the spirit of Prophecy. Without the Torah (God’s Law) and the Prophets it is impossible for us to know and verify who the real Messiah is. In fact Yeshua Himself contantly used the Law and the Prophets to show others who He really was. So for you to even suggest that verse 16 of Luke 16 states that the Holy Law of God and the Prophets are no longer valid, or relative is to discount most of the Scriptures.

Common misinterpretation of Gal 5:3. You are only looking at ONE of the MANY purposes for the Law of God, and a purpose for the unbeliever at that. Do you truly believe that the Law of God holds no value in the life of the BELIEVER?

Please show us any place in the Gospels Jesus taught others to follow the law. This I gotta see.

What about the very next verse where we are told to make a choice between the law and grace? Onc can not have both. The makes no provision for grace (salvation - eternal life). Grace cancels or voids any law. Law and grace can not be both administered on the same action. The law always gets its price of death, always - no exceptions.

bugkiller

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Acts 24:14
"But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets"

Can you say amen to the above statement today?

Yeppers I can. The rules have changed according to Jeremiah and Hosea for starters. Jesus has testified to this fact as recorded in 3 Gospels.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Question: at what exact point did the Law become obsolete?


It is finished is in reference to the sacrifice He came do pay on our behalf. It is finish absolutely does not mean the Holy Law and Word of My Father is now finished and obsolete. It’s almost laughable to suggest that God gave His people His Holy Law to instruct them in the set apart way that they should walk, only to send His Son to make that same Holy Law extinct. And for what? Because of our wickedness? God’s Law is perfect (Psalm 19:7), it’s our hearts that needs changing.

If you look at all the New Covenant passages such as Jer. 31 and Ez 36, the common theme is the changing NOT of the Law of God but rather of the hearts so that we may follow, obey and walk according to His Holy Torah. This can’t happen unless our heart is circumcised. This is why Paul in Romans 3:31 tells us that BY NO MEANS do we make void the Law of God upon salvation, rather we ESTABLISH it!

How can this be said? What does not according to mean? I think one should also consider the words make and new found in Jer 31:31. If that is not clear enough Check Heb 8:8 for the same words. Check the original language. There can be no mistake with the Heb 8:8 quote of Jer 31:31.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

What was nailed to the cross was the list of offenses, our sins, not God’s Holy Word. It’s almost blasphemous to purport that God would nail His Word to the cross. And for what purpose? Why would the Holy Law of God need to be nailed to the cross? The Law of God is not what we needed salvation from. It was our dire condition as slaves of sin. We needed to be redeemed from the condemnation of our lawlessness.

Again you are looking at the Law from the perspective of unbelievers. The Law of God in the life of the believer is something to be desired, sweeter than honey, perfect, holy, righteous, true, good, a light to our path, to be meditated on day and night, delighted in and loved. Messiah didn’t die to free us from the gift of the Father to His children.

What? He will place His feet on the Mt. of Olives? Where’s that in the “Law”? Besides, the point is mute, simply because all the prophecies about Messiah have not yet come to pass.
“Behold, a day is coming for the LORD when the spoil taken from you will be divided among you. For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city. Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle. In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.” - Zech. 14 Unless of course you believe that this has already come to pass.

Let me make it simple. If the above prophecy concerning the Messiah has NOT yet come to pass, the Law of God cannot possibly pass away (more accurately not even the smallest stroke of the Torah of God can pass away). [[Unless of course He was lying]]

Not if one reads Jer 31:31-33.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Should I read the whole thread?

bugkiller

 

[Steve Petersen]

1 John chapter 1 verse 8 If anyone claims to be without sin they deceive themselves and the truth is not in them.
James chapter 2 verse 10 If anyone keeps the whole law yet stumbles at just one point there guilty of breaking all of it.
Galatians chapter 3 verses 24,25,23
So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith now that faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law before this faith came we were held prisoners by the law locked up until faith should be revealed.

Why did you obey your parent's even though you still failed occasionally?

Why do anything if you can't do it perfectly then, eh?

 

[bugkiller]

Why did you obey your parent's even though you still failed occasionally?

Why do anything if you can't do it perfectly then, eh?

Why of course it is only because of the law. ehehehe

But in a more serious tone it was more to keep from getting a whippin for disobedience and most of the time because I did like them at least maybe because I was dependant on them for life needs.

bugkiller

 

[disciple1]

Romans chapter 9 verses 30-Romans chapter 10 verse 4
What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. As it is written: See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame. Brothers my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. For I can testify about them that they are Zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own the did not submit to God's righteousness, Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Romans chapter 9 verses 30-Romans chapter 10 verse 4
What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. As it is written: See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame. Brothers my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. For I can testify about them that they are Zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own the did not submit to God's righteousness, Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Hmm...same Greek word for 'end' used here:

1 Peter 1:9 9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls

Does that mean when you become saved, faith ends?

 

[disciple1]

To follow Christ you lay down your life as he did for you.
As Jesus said there is no greater love than to lay down your life for your friends.
And the spirit gives life the flesh counts for nothing.
Galatians chapter 5 verse 6
The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself in love.
Most people have to give up selfishness and that's the main thing.
Show mercy and you will be shown mercy.

 

[bugkiller]

Hmm...same Greek word for 'end' used here:



Does that mean when you become saved, faith ends?

Hardly. Such would be to throw out the reward or goal of faith.

bugkiller

 

[disciple1]

I faith doesn't express itself in love it has no value.