Why do people try to obey the law when it's not possible

[disciple1]

Galatians chapter 5 verse 14
The entire law is summed up in a single command.
Romans chapter 9 verses 30-Romans chapter 10 verse 4
What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. As it is written: See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame. Brothers my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. For I can testify about them that they are Zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own the did not submit to God's righteousness, Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

 

[Steve Petersen]

I couldn't think of a better statement to illustrate what the Word says about what we are NOT accountable to do and what we ARE accountable to do.

The law of ordinances are no longer for us today. The punishments for not keeping the spirit of that same law though are. IF we walk in the Spirit we are not under the law. The law was given because of transgressions. If we transgress, we come under the law.

That same loving and righteous God now asks us to do something which He gave us the ability to do, by His Spirit and our reborn nature, to walk in divine love. It's requirements go way beyond what the law of ordinances required. Nonetheless, we can keep our hearts and we can walk in love and fulfill all the righteous requirements that the law was a shadow of.

We can never dismiss our accountability to walk in love and although we are to consider ourselves dead unto sin (so that we can walk in newness of life), we must not sin (meaning we can). If we do, we must repent, turning our hearts toward Him and purposing to walk in love again, and be cleansed.

Oh the irony. The first time the concept of walking in the Spirit is mentioned in the Bible is here:

Ezekiel 36:24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

 

[Alive_Again]

I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

Of course that doesn't mean we will always keep them. It means, if we do not harden our hearts to the move of His Spirit, we will hear and be able to do them. We must choose each day who we will serve (making Jesus Lord by doing His Word).

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Mark, here is one very specific passage, it even names the law of moses. Not just one part of the law. but the whole law. i'd like to hear your take before digging up more.

Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”

The apostles and elders met to consider this question. After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? (Acts 15:5-10)

Sorry, but I am going to be responding less frequently now because I am in the midst of a pretty heavy teaching load for the next four weeks. I will try to respond when I can.

In the Acts passage you cite, I agree, he is talking about the law of Moses. I think that there is a difference between the word "bear" and the word "keep". At best this seems to me ambiguous, but especially so since I quoted two passages that clearly say that people "kept" the law. But please show me more passages.

it happens i took a break too around the same time .

your analysis of the sentence doesn't take away from its meaning in that bear is in relation to the yoke and keep is in relation to the law.

bear implies its a burden .. and the passage clearly says that one cannot keep it .

 

[mmksparbud]

I'll ask again--what about Enoch, Elijah and Moses--Well Moses did have to die 1st, but he wasn't under for long before going up--
Enoch and Elijah must have kept the law as God intended or they could not have been translated without seeing death.----OK--so 2 out a few billion is pretty steep--still, if they managed it--by faith, it has always been by faith.

 

[disciple1]

2 Corinthians chapter 3 verses 12-17
Therefore, since we have such a hope,we are very bold we are not like Moses who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. But when ever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
Galatians chapter 4 verses 22-31
For it is written that Abraham had two sons,one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise.
These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. For it is written: "be glad, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud, you who have no labor pains; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband. Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. At that time the son born in the ordinary way persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. But what does the Scripture say? Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.

 

[JamesThaddeusMartin]

The problem is that most do not understand that the law was not given for us to keep. It was given to identify our transgressions. Ask yourself, would a loving and righteous God give us something to do which he knew we could not do? Looking at it from that perspective creates a whole other picture.

hismessenger

??????

New Testament...

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” (Jn 14:15)



Old Testament...

"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter; Fear God and keep His commandments; for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecc 12:13)



Sounds about right


JTM

 

[disciple1]

1 John chapter 1 verse 8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
James chapter 2 verse 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

1 John chapter 1 verse 8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
James chapter 2 verse 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

if we claim to be without entanglement .. we deceive ourselves and that which sets free from bondage .. is not in us

whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it .. therefore judge with mercy.

 

[Epoisses]

The problem is that most do not understand that the law was not given for us to keep. It was given to identify our transgressions. Ask yourself, would a loving and righteous God give us something to do which he knew we could not do?

Yes this is exactly what he did. The old covenant was a cruel joke that God played on the Israelites. God condemned them for not keeping the Law and then when they actually tried to keep it they were doubly condemned (scribes and pharisees)! One of those damned if you do and damned if you don't situations.

There was a logical reason for this, however, and that is that God wants us to see the futility of trying to be good or keeping the Law. The ones who never try will never really know for sure or not. The ones who try and think they become righteous in the process are deceived and become like the pharisees. And lastly the ones who try and realize the utter impossibilty of it and see their sinfulness (for the Law can only show us our sinfulness; it can't make us righteous) will surrender all to Jesus and receive his righteousness (the real thing).

The third group is the correct one.

 

[mark273]

Genesis 26:4-5

4b And in your offspring all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, 5 because Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Deuteronomy 30:11-14

11 For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend to heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it.

2 Kings 18:5-6

He trusted in the Lord, the God of Israel, so that there was none like him among all the kings of Judah after him, nor among those who were before him. 6 For he held fast to the Lord. He did not depart from following him, but kept the commandments that the Lord commanded Moses.

Luke 1:6

And they were both righteous before God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and statutes of the Lord.

Did what you said could not be done.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Genesis 26:4-5


Deuteronomy 30:11-14


2 Kings 18:5-6


Luke 1:6


Did what you said could not be done.

Walking blameless does not mean not breaking the law tho. read what Jesus said about the priests profaning the sabbath and were blameless. and what is written of David that he was blameless in all he did except in his dealings with Uriah the hittite . so David killed a lot of people had multiple wives .. did all sorts of things that would be considered breaking the law .. but was considered "blameless" except in this one matter.

 

[Epoisses]

Did what you said could not be done.

People who realize that it's impossible to keep the Law and then go to Jesus and receive his righteousness will be keeping the Law. Not the old one but the new one of God's agape love.

Every child of Adam is born into this world under a death sentence. God's law looks at each and every one of us as sinners condemned to death. It doesn't matter what anyone does from that point on. No amount of good deeds can ever erase that sentence.

The only hope for anyone is to realize this and surrender our condemned life to Jesus and receive his spotless robe of righteousness. When the Law looks at us and sees Christ's righteousness in our hearts by faith, the death sentence is commuted and we are granted everlasting life.

In the old covenant where it cryptically talked of people keeping the law and being blameless, it simply meant that those people had learned to live lives of faith. Keeping the law of Moses is nothing. Trained monkeys and atheists can do that.

 

[disciple1]

James chapter 2 verse 13 Judgement without mercy will be shown anyone who hasn't been merciful mercy triumphs over judgement.
James chapter 2 verse 18 Show me your faith without deeds and I'll show you my faith by what I do.
Luke chapter 10 verses 25-37
On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher, he asked, what must I do to inherit eternal life? What is written in the Law? he replied. How do you read it? He answered: Love the lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and Love your neighbor as yourself. You have answered correctly, Jesus replied. Do this and you will live. But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, And who is my neighbor? In reply Jesus said: A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too , a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. Look after him said, and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have. Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers. The expert in the law replied, The one who had mercy on him. Jesus told him, Go and do likewise.
Galatians chapter 5 verse 6 The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself in love,

 

[mark273]

Walking blameless does not mean not breaking the law tho. read what Jesus said about the priests profaning the sabbath and were blameless. and what is written of David that he was blameless in all he did except in his dealings with Uriah the hittite . so David killed a lot of people had multiple wives .. did all sorts of things that would be considered breaking the law .. but was considered "blameless" except in this one matter.

They were considered to be keeping the law. You are getting now to what my point has been all along if you read my posts. The way the Bible uses the phrase "keep the commands, law" is what is important, not our theological debates. And the Bible says that people did keep the law.

Now once we have established that, we need to ask about the reason for Christ and the gospel. So much of our logic in soteriology is based on the idea that the reason Christ had to come was that no one could keep the law. But I have demonstrated from the Bible that people could and did keep the law.

So we need to revise this bit of our logic and think through other possibilities.

 

[Willie T]

They were considered to be keeping the law. You are getting now to what my point has been all along if you read my posts. The way the Bible uses the phrase "keep the commands, law" is what is important, not our theological debates. And the Bible says that people did keep the law.

Now once we have established that, we need to ask about the reason for Christ and the gospel. So much of our logic in soteriology is based on the idea that the reason Christ had to come was that no one could keep the law. But I have demonstrated from the Bible that people could and did keep the law.

So we need to revise this bit of our logic and think through other possibilities.

Do you see no problem with the point that if you fail any of the law, you fail all the law in its totality?

BTW, Abraham lied about his relationship to his wife.... twice, I believe, almost causing others to commit adultery. And both Abraham and Zechariah doubted the angel of God concerning their future children. (sometimes considered a no-no)

 

[Willie T]

Another point to keep in mind on this "obeying" thing is the bragging agreement that the Israelites later made in Exodus (first in chapter 19, and then again a few chapters later) that they could, and would "keep all that the Lord has said".

I think they forsook much of the protection and "overlooking" God must have done prior to this. They blew that promise so badly that within a short space of time from that first promise, God had Moses tell the Levites to "kill all the people in the camp". 3,000, as I recall.

There is likely some heavy-duty "failing to keep the law" going on there, somewhere.

 

[mark273]

Another point to keep in mind on this "obeying" thing is the bragging agreement that the Israelites later made in Exodus (first in chapter 19, and then again a few chapters later) that they could, and would "keep all that the Lord has said".

I think they forsook much of the protection and "overlooking" God must have done prior to this. They blew that promise so badly that within a short space of time from that first promise, God had Moses tell the Levites to "kill all the people in the camp". 3,000, as I recall.

There is likely some heavy-duty "failing to keep the law" going on there, somewhere.

Feel free to point out that they sinned. I agree that they sinned. However, that did not keep God from saying the things that he did about their keeping the law. I agree with your points, but what do you have to say about the verses I quoted? How do you interpret them? It is not enough simply to say that they sinned and that is the end. God said that they kept the law.

 

[disciple1]

In Matthew chapter 1 verse 19 Joseph was said to be a righteous man.
And in Romans chapter 2 verse 29 No a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.
But that's the only way I see to be blameless or righteous is by love. By the law your only going to make God angry because you can't obey it. But you can love, and God is love it's 1 John chapter 4 verse 8 and 16
If you won't accept that there's nothing I can tell you.

 

[Willie T]

Feel free to point out that they sinned. I agree that they sinned. However, that did not keep God from saying the things that he did about their keeping the law. I agree with your points, but what do you have to say about the verses I quoted? How do you interpret them? It is not enough simply to say that they sinned and that is the end. God said that they kept the law.

I can't say why God deemed them righteous. You can try to hinge your hope on those verses if you choose. But the Bible makes it too plain that we don't get to play that game.