Why do people like Seventh-day Adventist and Adventist doctrine?

[stuart lawrence]

here?




here?



here?


Just where would we go to see you engage in an actual Bible discussion on the texts posted???

You are sure the law God desires you to keep has been written on your mind and placed on your heart aren't you?
Only you appear to think nothing of continuously breaking that law. It reminds me of a certain church i went to a couple of years back, amazing

 

[stuart lawrence]

This is what Christians can do in their hearts. Harden them against the Holy Spirit and grieve it.

Mat_18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
Heb_3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
Heb_3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
Jas_3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
Eph_4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Anyone can override the Holy Spirit with their own stubbornness, they harden their heart against the truth to not inconvenience themselves, and justify themselves going against God. Just as so many walk way from a marriage that they should not, but they'll justify doing so because the spouse isn't everything they thought, because they "deserve" to be happy, and so on and on. They will go against that still small voice even when it is screaming at them.

You know, I had better hopes for you. I actually thought, you might be a wee bit more open to seeing the absurd position your church holds in respect of insisting everyone observes a set Saturday sabbath while accepting people as christians who have no consciousness of sin by not observing it.
But you are the same as the other chap, proved spiritual truth showing that position to be absurd means nothing to you. You are only interested in holding to your set denominational belief even when it is shown to be absurd to hold.
A testament to what is often the futility of websites such as these

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

You believe through the law placed within you, you become conscious of sin. Yet your denomination accepts as Christians people who have no consciousness of sin by failing to observe a set saturday Sabbath.

I fail to see any <<set saturday Sabbath>> in any <<law placed within>> anyone, <through>> which anyone would <<become conscious of sin>>.

This is nonsensical. Speak some Bible realities, so one perhaps could understand you.

 

[mmksparbud]

You know, I had better hopes for you. I actually thought, you might be a wee bit more open to seeing the absurd position your church holds in respect of insisting everyone observes a set Saturday sabbath while accepting people as christians who gave no consciousness by not observing it.
But you are the same as the other chap, proved spiritual truth showing that position to be absurd means nothing to you. You are only interested in holding to your set denominational belief even when it us shown to be impossible to hold.
A testement to what is often the futility of websites such as thsse

You have only shown me how absurd your position is, and how very wrong, and judgmental for you keep insisting that people on here " think nothing of continuously breaking that law" Apparently you have a crystal ball and can see into the hearts of others. You have the right to believe whatever foolish thing you want. No one on this planet will ever have to answer to any SDA for what they believe----we all will stand before God one day and He knows the secret hearts of all. No one will ever be judged by what light they have not be given, only by what they have and have refused. There are times when it is best to shake the "dust off your feet" and carry on ad I am going to be unlatching this thread and will not answer any more alerts. May God bless your efforts to know Him and His will for you.

 

[stuart lawrence]

I fail to see any <<set saturday Sabbath>> in any <<law placed within>> anyone, <through>> which anyone would <<become conscious of sin>>.

Speak some Bible realities, so one perhaps could understand you.

Im only going to write this once. If you don't understand it further conversation would be futile.
Bob Ryan believes all of the TC are written on the mind and placed on the heart of the believer, including the observance/ keeping of a specific seventh day Sabbath.
He also believes( correctly) that through the law placed within us we become conscious of sin.
He would agree you can only be a Christian if the law God requires you to keep is placed within you.
Do you understand so far?
So as Bob Ryan believed the law concerning observing a specific Saturday Sabbath is within you, and through the law placed within you, you become conscious of sin, he must believe every christian is conscious they sin by failing to observe a specific saturday Sabbath. Surely you can follow that
Yet at the same time, he and the SDA church accept as Christians people who have no consciousness they sin by failing to observe a specific saturday Sabbath.
The position is ridiculous. He contradicts himself
Now if you want to respond by not acknowledging That obvious absurd position, I will ignore you. I joined this website for serious debate not farce

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.

I need to supply the background of the SDA to reach the CAC.

Background and history of the SDA. Christianity Protestantism, Anabaptists Restorationism, Pietism, Millerism, then the Great Disappointment.

Young Ellen White was converted at a Methodist camp, age 9. (Wikipedia)

Well first of all there is no such thing as a "young Ellen White at age 9" because at age nine should she would be Ellen Harmon.

Secondly her family was Methodists and the william Miller had no churches, congregations or denomination so she remained in the Methodist church until her local congregation demanded that any methodists that believed in a second coming that was before the millennium - as Miller taught - would need to separate from their local congregation.

So then - home fellowships where a few families that had been excommunicated from various denominations - would meet.

Ellen White's visions started at age 17.

There is no such thing as a 17 year old Ellen White - she would still be "Ellen Harmon" at 17 and still living at home -- in a Methodist home at that. Not Sabbath keeping and not believing in any of the distinctive SDA doctrine.

 

[stuart lawrence]

You have only shown me how absurd your position is, and how very wrong, and judgmental for you keep insisting that people on here " think nothing of continuously breaking that law" Apparently you have a crystal ball and can see into the hearts of others. You have the right to believe whatever foolish thing you want. No one on this planet will ever have to answer to any SDA for what they believe----we all will stand before God one day and He knows the secret hearts of all. No one will ever be judged by what light they have not be given, only by what they have and have refused. There are times when it is best to shake the "dust off your feet" and carry on ad I am going to be unlatching this thread and will not answer any more alerts. May God bless your efforts to know Him and His will for you.

You must be conscious you sin if you fail to keep the law placed within you. On this point bob Ryan and i agree. He and you believe the fourth commandment as written is written on your mind and placed on your heart. Therefore you must believe every christian is conscious they sin if they fail to observe a specific seventh day Sabbath.
Yet at the same time as you hold That belief, you both, as well as the sda church accept people as christians who have no consciousness they sin by failing to observe a specific seventh day Sabbath
I have to say, yours and his failure to acknowledge the ridiculous position you find yourselves in, the contradiction of That position is to me, mind boggling.
You are not interested in accepting the truth here are you, just fanatically claiming your churches position is correct when it Is impossible for That to be true

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

You are sure the law God desires you to keep has been written on your mind and placed on your heart aren't you?
Only you appear to think nothing of continuously breaking that law. It reminds me of a certain church i went to a couple of years back, amazing

Who's got a guilty mind on here?

 

[BobRyan]

Now we can proceed to the present era.

Yesterday the leaders of the Seventh-day Adventist (SDA) church, with world headquarters in Silver Spring, Maryland, and a membership of almost 30 million, voted on an article of
reorganization, based on a decade of long-standing differences and numerous lawsuits between regional church leaders in the United States, Canada, Western Europe and the rest of the world church. The preliminary agreement of reorganization, reached late Tuesday night, would separate the church into two distinct entities with no formal ties to each other.

This would be only the second time in its 161-year history that a major split has occurred. The world church would retain the name Seventh-day Adventists; the new church would be called the Christian Adventist Church (CAC). The first major split occurred about a decade ago with the formal separation of the SDA church in China from the church’s Maryland headquarters.

The tension started in earnest in 2009 with disagreement over issues of interpretation of biblical creation, women’s ordination, tithing, the gift of prophecy, and the relevancy of some of its doctrines; namely the doctrine of the Investigative Judgment, which has had a long history of detractors. Failure to come to any consensus eventually led to many church districts moving out on their own against the guidance of the church’s administrative body, known as the General Conference. (Christian News Media)
.

The article you are quoting is from 2014 - and is pure fiction.

If you look at the bottom of the SPECTRUM page it says --
"This was tongue-in-cheek in 2014...was it too optimistic about how long the church will last?"

the church today is a little under 20 Million.

SPRECTRUM is one of the most misleading fringe-SDA sites you can possibly rely on for accuracy.

In this world - you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

I tell you the truth - but you keep looking for the off-the-wall 'sources' and you get to the point where you are now opposing even your own pro-sunday scholars on the subject of the Ten Commandments.

Try the narrow gate. It is a lot less twisty and turn-y

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

You must be conscious you sin if you fail to keep the law placed within you. On this point bob Ryan and i agree. He and you believe the fourth commandment as written is written on your mind and placed on your heart. Therefore you must believe every christian is conscious they sin if they fail to observe a specific seventh day Sabbath.
Yet at the same time as you hold That belief, you both, as well as the sda church accept people as christians who have no consciousness they sin by failing to observe a specific seventh day Sabbath
I have to say, yours and his failure to acknowledge the ridiculous position you find yourselves in, the contradiction of That position is to me, mind boggling.
You are not interested I accepting the truth here are you, just fanatically claiming your churches position I correct when it Is impossible for That to be true

Stuart Lawrence of christianforums is keepsabbathholy of topix is happysabbath of topix etc. very unimpressively and unconvincingly trying his best to look and write like he's illiterate.

Post script,
Stuart Lawrence, it seems to me, have recently created another pseudonym for himself by the name of the christianforums poster klutedavid.

 

[stuart lawrence]

This thread has become farcical, so no point in remaining in it.
Still, one thing it has shown is the sda church cannot see spiritual truth that should be very easy to see. And its members seem not to care about spiritual truth made plain to them, they are more interested I holding to a belief that contradicts itself to stand by their churches belief rather than admit the truth.
A testament to following after the written code, rather than the Holy Spirit.
If you shun following after the holy spirit you shun spiritual truth for he leads into truth
And according to Paul it is one way or the other, it cannot be both

 

[BobRyan]

You are sure the law God desires you to keep has been written on your mind and placed on your heart aren't you?

I am also sure that it is still wrong to "take God's name in vain" Ex 20:6.

Do you find that part of scripture to be a problem - because it spoken by God Himself and written with His own hand?

Does it bother you that even the majority of your own pro-sunday scholars do not condemn God's TEN Commandments - yet you respond in this way to someone saying that they think it is wrong for christians to take God's name in vain -- and your problem is just - "because it is in God's Ten Commandments"?

That should be a "wake up call" for you my friend.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The problem with these websites is, many on them will never yield to spiritual truth when they are shown to be wrong. What matters to them is simply clinging to their set denominational beliefs, whether they are correct or incorrect.
You cannot refute the truth I showed you in my posts earlier, so you simply ignore them, and the scripture requested and continue to reem the letter off you fail to understand.
Why are SDA in such a muddle?
Because they follow the written code, not the Holy Spirit

If you would be followed, the Holy Spirit would be followed, hey?!

You have long got stuck in the <<SDA muddle>> yourself; so you still have to find, <<spiritual truth>>, before you might start realise how to <<yield to spiritual truth>>.

 

[stuart lawrence]

I am also sure that it is still wrong to "take God's name in vain" Ex 20:6.

Do you find that part of scripture to be a problem - because it spoken by God Himself and written with His own hand?

Does it bother you that even the majority of your own pro-sunday scholars do not condemn God's TEN Commandments - yet you respond in this way to someone saying that they think it is wrong for christians to take God's name in vain -- and your problem is just - "because it is in God's Ten Commandments"?

That should be a "wake up call" for you my friend.

Let me tell you something. I have far more conviction of sin than you will ever have.
Your heart is shown by writing nonsensical posts to me that completely contradict what I have many times stated.
That doesn't bother you of course. You have no conscience concerning it, while at the same time you insist the moral law must be upheld.
Let me tell you something else. There isva dividing line in Christianity, but it is not according to denomination but rather the holy Spirit
Biblically speaking you can become a christian without the filling of the Holy Spirit, that is a separate event. Those who don't have or accept the filling available cannot see as much as those who do. For the holy spirit leads into truth.
But you carry on making your rather immature posts to me suggesting i don't care about taking the Lords name in vain after I have repeatedly stated what I have in this thread.
You simply endorse the truth of scripture
The biggest sinners in Christs view, the most guilty were those who most earnestly looked to the letter of the law and hung everything on it, as you do

 

[stuart lawrence]

A christian said to me last year:
The SDA don't have any covenant.

I wondered what she meant. I don't anymore

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Im only going to write this once. If you don't understand it further conversation would be futile.
Bob Ryan believes all of the TC are written on the mind and placed on the heart of the believer, including the observance/ keeping of a specific seventh day Sabbath.
He also believes( correctly) that through the law placed within us we become conscious of sin.
He would agree you can only be a Christian if the law God requires you to keep is placed within you.
Do you understand so far?
So as Bob Ryan believed the law concerning observing a specific Saturday Sabbath is within you, and through the law placed within you, you become conscious of sin, he must believe every christian is conscious they sin by failing to observe a specific saturday Sabbath. Surely you can follow that
Yet at the same time, he and the SDA church accept as Christians people who have no consciousness they sin by failing to observe a specific saturday Sabbath.
The position is ridiculous. He contradicts himself
Now if you want to respond by not acknowledging That obvious absurd position, I will ignore you. I joined this website for serious debate not farce

No Bible; sorry me no understands.

 

[stuart lawrence]

No Bible; sorry me no understands.

I know you don't understand, no need to state that

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

This thread has become farcical, so no point in remaining in it.
Still, one thing it has shown is the sda church cannot see spiritual truth that should be very easy to see. And its members seem not to care about spiritual truth made plain to them, they are more interested I holding to a belief that contradicts itself to stand by their churches belief rather than admit the truth.
A testament to following after the written code, rather than the Holy Spirit.
If you shun following after the holy spirit you shun spiritual truth for he leads into truth
And according to Paul it is one way or the other, it cannot be both

If you would stop identifying yourself with and as the Holy Spirit, you might be listened to. Or spoke Bible. But you don't; you just speak SELF and a terrible obsession with SDAism. There's no purpose in your madness, nor method. Is there anything POSITIVE you have to say? Then say it! Otherwise please keep your word.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Let me tell you something. I have far more conviction of sin than you will ever have.
Your heart is shown by writing nonsensical posts to me that completely contradict what I have many times stated.
That doesn't bother you of course. You have no conscience concerning it, while at the same time you insist the moral law must be upheld.
Let me tell you something else. There isva dividing line in Christianity, but it is not according to denomination but rather the holy Spirit
Biblically speaking you can become a christian without the filling of the Holy Spirit, that is a separate event. Those who don't have or accept the filling available cannot see as much as those who do. For the holy spirit leads into truth.
But you carry on making your rather immature posts to me suggesting i don't care about taking the Lords name in vain after I have repeatedly stated what I have in this thread.
You simply endorse the truth of scripture
The biggest sinners in Christs view, the most guilty were those who most earnestly looked to the letter of the law and hung everything on it, as you do

Shucks ... I'll never catch up; and he’ll never hang up!

 

[stuart lawrence]

If you would stop identifying yourself with and as the Holy Spirit, you might be listened to. Or spoke Bible. But you don't; you just speak SELF and a terrible obsession with SDAism. There's no purpose in your madness, nor method. Is there anything POSITIVE you have to say? Then say it! Otherwise please keep your word.

If you understand spiritual truth you can explain the message contained in the letter cant you.

Why are sinful passions aroused in people by the law if they live under it? Rom7:5

That might be difficult for you. I have met no one who quotes the Greek who understands the core message Paul wrote of