Why do people hate the Seventh Day Adventists?

Andrewofthetribe said:

Who said Jesus was an angel?

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Calling Jesus mMichael who is an arch angel is calling Jesus an angel.

You are just trying to twist with semantics and word play. And you can't get around it with talk such =as " No God came in the FORM of an angel: he is not an angel

ViaCrucis said:

And I'm saying that the seventy weeks doesn't begin with Cyrus' command to rebuild Jerusalem, it began with Jeremiah's prophecy, the seventy weeks covers the period of the Babylonian Exile.



You do know what the word "messiah" means right?

כֹּה־אָמַר יְהוָה לִמְשִׁיחֹו

"koh-amar YHVH l'meshychw"

"Thus-says YHVH to-His-meshiach" Meshiach, Messiah.

לִמְשִׁיחֹו contains the prefix lamed, indicating "to" "for" and the suffix vav, indicating third person singular posessive noun. Thus מְשִׁיחֹ (meshiach) is sandwiched between the prefix and suffix, "to his meshiach".

The word meshiach means "anointed". Transliterated into Greek it becomes messias (μεσσίας). In English it becomes "messiah". Translated into Greek it becomes christos (χριστός), also meaning "anointed".

So changing the word from "messiah" to "anointed" doesn't change the meaning of the text: God calls Cyrus "messiah", "anointed".

It's the same word, by the way, used in Daniel 9:25,

וְתֵדַע וְתַשְׂכֵּל מִן־מֹצָא דָבָר לְהָשִׁיב וְלִבְנֹות יְרֽוּשָׁלִַם עַד־מָשִׁיחַ נָגִיד שָׁבֻעִים שִׁבְעָה וְשָׁבֻעִים שִׁשִּׁים וּשְׁנַיִם תָּשׁוּב וְנִבְנְתָה רְחֹוב וְחָרוּץ וּבְצֹוק הָעִתִּֽים׃

From Jeremiah's prophecy until Cyrus, seven weeks (seventy years); which is just as Jeremiah prophesied in Jeremiah 25. Cyrus is "meshiach naqid" here in Daniel 9:25. Not Jesus, this isn't about the Messiah, but a messiah: Cyrus the Persian.

-CryptoLutheran

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OK--I don't seem to be saying this right so maybe I should use someone else's' words.
Ad Yes, I know what this all means.

Forms and Transliterations
בִּמְשִׁ֣יחַ בִּמְשִׁ֥יחַ בִּמְשִׁיחָ֔י בִמְשִׁיחָ֑י במשיח במשיחי הַמָּשִׁ֖יחַ הַמָּשִׁ֛יחַ הַמָּשִׁ֧יחַ המשיח לִמְשִׁ֣יחַ לִמְשִׁיח֗וֹ לִמְשִׁיח֛וֹ לִמְשִׁיחִֽי׃ לִמְשִׁיחוֹ֮ למשיח למשיחו למשיחי׃ מְשִׁ֙יחַ֙ מְשִׁ֣יחַ מְשִׁ֥יחַ מְשִׁ֫יח֥וֹ מְשִׁיח֗וֹ מְשִׁיח֣וֹ מְשִׁיחִ֖י מְשִׁיחֶ֑יךָ מְשִׁיחֶ֑ךָ מְשִׁיחֶֽךָ׃ מְשִׁיחֽוֹ׃ מְשִׁיחוֹ֙ מָשִׁ֖יחַ מָשִׁ֣יחַ מָשִׁ֥יחַ משיח משיחו משיחו׃ משיחי משיחיך משיחך משיחך׃
bim·šî·aḥ bim·šî·ḥāy ḇim·šî·ḥāy bimShiach bimshiChai bimšîaḥ bimšîḥāy ḇimšîḥāy ham·mā·šî·aḥ hammaShiach hammāšîaḥ lim·šî·aḥ lim·šî·ḥî lim·šî·ḥōw limShiach limshiChi limshiCho limšîaḥ limšîḥî limšîḥōw mā·šî·aḥ maShiach māšîaḥ mə·šî·aḥ mə·šî·ḥe·ḵā mə·šî·ḥî mə·šî·ḥōw meShiach meshiChecha meshiCheicha meshiChi meshiCho məšîaḥ məšîḥeḵā məšîḥî məšîḥōw vimshiChai

Brenton Greek Septuagint (LXX, Restored Names)

And thou shalt know and understand, that from the going forth of the command for the answer and for the building of Jerusalem until the Anointed{gr.Christ} the prince [there shall be] seven weeks, and sixty-two weeks; and then [the time] shall return, and the street shall be built, and the wall, and the times shall be exhausted.
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(25) Know therefore.—The difficulty of this verse is considerably increased by the principal accent in the Hebrew text being placed after the words “seven weeks.” According to the present punctuation, the translation is “Unto an Anointed one a prince shall be seven weeks, and during sixty and two weeks [Jerusalem] shall be built up” . . . This is opposed (1) to ancient translations except the LXX.; (2) to Daniel 9:26, which connects the sixty-two weeks with the Anointed, and not with the building of the city.
The commandment.—To be explained, as in Daniel 9:23, to mean revelation. But to what revelation is the allusion? Is it to the edict of Cyrus (Ezra 6:14), which Isaiah predicts (Isaiah 44:28)? Or are we to explain it of what happened in the twentieth year of Artaxerxes? (See Excursus G.) It is obvious that there is no reference to Jeremiah’s prophecy, for nothing is there stated which can be interpreted to be a command to rebuild Jerusalem.

Messiah the Prince.—Literally, an Anointed one, a prince, the two nouns being placed in apposition, and the article omitted before each, the person and the office of the person contemplated being sufficiently definite. He is to be “anointed,” that is, King and Priest at once (see 1Samuel 10:1; 1Samuel 13:14; 1Samuel 25:30); in fact, He is to possess those attributes which in other passages are ascribed to the Messiah. It is needless to point out that Cyrus, though spoken of (Isaiah 45:1) as an “anointed of Jehovah,” cannot be indicated here. By no calculation can he be said to have come either seven weeks or, sixty-nine weeks from the time of the commencement of the Captivity

Barnes' Notes on the Bible
The Vulgate renders this, Usque ad Christum ducem - "even to Christ the leader," or ruler. The Syriac, "to the advent of Christ the king." Theodotion, ἕως Χριστοῦ ἡγουμένου heōs Christou hēgoumenou - "Christ the leader," or ruler. The question whether this refers to Christ will be more appropriately considered at the close of the verse. The inquiry will then occur, also, whether this refers to his birth, or to his appearance as the anointed one - his taking upon himself publicly the office. The language would apply to either, though it would perhaps more properly refer to the latter - to the time when he should appear as such - or should be anointed, crowned, or set apart to the office, and be fully instituted in it. It could not be demonstrated that either of these applications would be a departure from the fair interpretation of the words, and the application must be determined by some other circumstances, if any are expressed. What those are in the case will be considered at the close of the verse.

The Prince - נגיד nāgı̂yd. This word properly means a leader, a prefect, a prince. It is a word of very general character, and might be applied to any leader or ruler. It is applied to an overseer, or, as we should say, a "secretary" of the treasury, 1 Chronicles 26:24; 2 Chronicles 31:12; an overseer of the temple, 1 Chronicles 9:11; 2 Chronicles 31:13; of the palace, 2 Chronicles 28:7; and of military affairs, 1 Chronicles 13:1; 2 Chronicles 32:21. It is also used absolutely to denote a prince of a people, any one of royal dignity, 1 Samuel 9:16; 1 Samuel 10:1; 1 Samuel 13:14. - Gesenius. So far as this word, therefore, is concerned, it would apply to any prince or leader, civil or military; any one of royal dignity, or who should distinguish himself, or make himself a leader in civil, ecclesiastical, or military affairs, or who should receive an appointment to any such station. It is a word which would be as applicable to the Messiah as to any other leader, but which has nothing in itself to make it necessary to apply it to him. All that can be fairly deduced from its use here is, that it would be some prominent leader; some one that would be known without anymore definite designation; someone on whom the mind would naturally rest, and someone to whom when he appeared it would be applied without hesitation and without difficulty. There can be no doubt that a Hebrew, in the circumstances of Daniel, and with the known views and expectations of the Hebrew people, would apply such a phrase to the Messiah

To all. when God speaks through a prophet the prophet is not God. But if someone walked by and heard the prophet say " I am the Lord Your God, repent my people and turn to me". The people listening on might wrongly think the prophet was saying he is God. But this is not the case. Just as God can also speak through an angel or the many arch angels. The arachangels are not God.

When some try to say well, men have fallen on their face before the captain of the Lords Host and worshipped. They say, "aha, there a man worshipped an angel. No this is not the case either ( and if they did they were wrong to do so. When a man hears God's words come out of a man or angel, they are in the presence of God speaking to them this is awe inspiring and a powerful thing, the men may fall on their face and worship God but they would not be worshipping angels. It is God and His word that moves them and in the presence of God as they fall down. We see a similar example of this in 1 Cor 14 as we read,

"24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:

25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth."

Here the men do not worship the man even though they fall down and worship. They are worshipping God through the man. Similar can be said when men fall before angels and worship. Scriptures tells men not to worship angels.

mmksparbud said:

Michael is a title of Jesus---not a created being. He is captain of the hosts of the Lord, (a title)who Joshua worshipped, who declared the ground holy---

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When God speaks through a prophet the prophet is not God. But if someone walked by and heard the prophet say " I am the Lord Your God, repent my people and turn to me". The people listening on might wrongly think the prophet was saying he is God. But this is not the case. Just as God can also speak through an angel or the many arch angels. The arachangels are not God.

When some try to say well, men have fallen on their face before the captain of the Lords Host and worshipped. They say, "aha, there a man worshipped an angel. No this is not the case either ( and if they did they were wrong to do so. When a man hears God's words come out of a man or angel, they are in the presence of God speaking to them this is awe inspiring and a powerful thing, the men may fall on their face and worship God but they would not be worshipping angels. It is God and His word that moves them and in the presence of God as they fall down. We see a similar example of this in 1 Cor 14 as we read,

"24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:

25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth."

Here the men do not worship the man even though they fall down and worship. They are worshipping God through the man. Similar can be said when men fall before angels and worship. Scriptures tells men not to worship angels.

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:

The Judge again; is he aspiring for Divinity, cultivating hate for SDA?

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no hate for SDA or any. Just scriptural truth.

we are to love our enemies.

I don't hate them, although they can be very annoying in religious debates. They also train theirs children to attack and convert Catholics into a false religion. I don't like.


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LoveofTruth said:

Lol more the volume of your words

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The question was rhetorical

katholischen_miliz said:

They also train theirs children to attack and convert Catholics into a false religion. I don't like.

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I also hear they make lampshades from the skin of those that they disagree with!

EastCoastRemnant said:

I also hear they make lampshades from the skin of those that they disagree with!

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I wouldn't say that.


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LoveofTruth said:

Calling Jesus mMichael who is an arch angel is calling Jesus an angel.

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Calling Jesus a lamb, which is a created being, is calling Jesus a created being...

See how your twisted logic looks in another context? Silly isn't it?

katholischen_miliz said:

I wouldn't say that.


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Why not, it's as accurate as your statement...

Paul Yohannan said:

I agree, and I hope you spend some time sharing this truth with Adventist members on CF.com who reject it.

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I don't know of any who reject it.

EastCoastRemnant said:

Why not, it's as accurate as your statement...

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No, no it's not. Adventists literally have schools they send their children to so they can specifically learn how to convert Catholics. 7th day Adventists are some of the most anti Catholic people you'll ever meet.


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LoveofTruth said:

To all. when God speaks through a prophet the prophet is not God. But if someone walked by and heard the prophet say " I am the Lord Your God, repent my people and turn to me". The people listening on might wrongly think the prophet was saying he is God. But this is not the case. Just as God can also speak through an angel or the many arch angels. The arachangels are not God.

When some try to say well, men have fallen on their face before the captain of the Lords Host and worshipped. They say, "aha, there a man worshipped an angel. No this is not the case either ( and if they did they were wrong to do so. When a man hears God's words come out of a man or angel, they are in the presence of God speaking to them this is awe inspiring and a powerful thing, the men may fall on their face and worship God but they would not be worshipping angels. It is God and His word that moves them and in the presence of God as they fall down. We see a similar example of this in 1 Cor 14 as we read,

"24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:

25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth."

Here the men do not worship the man even though they fall down and worship. They are worshipping God through the man. Similar can be said when men fall before angels and worship. Scriptures tells men not to worship angels.

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Angels do not allow men to worship them---never. This is what they will do when a man does that. I think everyone can tell the difference.

Rev 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
Joshua would never have worshipped an angel, and the angel would not have allowed it, nor told him to take his shoes for the ground was holy. Only One can say that
Exo 3:4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
Exo 3:5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.

katholischen_miliz said:

No, no it's not. Adventists literally have schools they send their children to so they can specifically learn how to convert Catholics. 7th day Adventists are some of the most anti Catholic people you'll ever meet.


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Correction, we are anti Papacy, anti Vatican.... you won't find an Adventist that doesn't pray for and feel love for the Catholic in the pew.

As far as having schools, I seem to recall the RCC having a couple as well.... do your schools teach how to convert the wayward daughters of Protestantism back to the Mother church?

EastCoastRemnant said:

Correction, we are anti Papacy, anti Vatican.... you won't find an Adventist that doesn't pray for and feel love for the Catholic in the pew.

As far as having schools, I seem to recall the RCC having a couple as well.... do your schools teach how to convert the wayward daughters of Protestantism back to the Mother church?

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No, there are a lot of anti Catholic. They hate Catholicism and try to destroy it. Even though they're the ones who are wrong. And yes, we do have schools, but we prefer to actually teach our children how to be successful in life instead of how to bring people to lies.


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EastCoastRemnant said:

Calling Jesus a lamb, which is a created being, is calling Jesus a created being...

See how your twisted logic looks in another context? Silly isn't it?

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no that is a type. Angels are not types, they are created beings and The Son of God created all things for him and by him and he is before all things. This clearly shows that the eternal Son of God is not a created being as some try to say.

also

if any man denies the Son the same hath not the father 1 John 2.

The identity of the Son of God from everlasting as the second Person in the Trinity is vital.

to teach another jesus will be perilous to those who do.

katholischen_miliz said:

No, no it's not. Adventists literally have schools they send their children to so they can specifically learn how to convert Catholics. 7th day Adventists are some of the most anti Catholic people you'll ever meet.


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There is no silly icon on here---I went to SDA schools--never heard such a thing!!We are anti-Catholic doctrine, not anti-Catholic people.

This is what I was taught
We should not go out of our way to make hard thrusts at the Catholics. Among the Catholics there are many who are most conscientious Christians, and who walk in all the light that shines upon them, and God will work in their behalf.—Testimonies for the Church 9:243. {ChS 231.4}

—Let not those who write for our papers make unkind thrusts and allusions that will certainly do harm, and that will hedge up the way and hinder us from doing the work that we should do in order to reach all classes, the Catholics included. CW 60.1

But for Christ’s sake heed the admonitions 65which have been given in regard to making scathing remarks about the Catholics. Many Catholics read the Echo, and among the number there are honest souls who will accept the truth. But there is such a thing as shutting the door in their faces as they are about to enter. CW 64.3

I will say this--there are many Ex- Catholics in the church, and they can get a little militant.

LoveofTruth said:

no that is a type. Angels are not types, they are created beings and The Son of God created all things for him and by him and he is before all things. This clearly shows that the eternal Son of God is not a created being as some try to say.

also

if any man denies the Son the same hath not the father 1 John 2.

The identity of the Son of God from everlasting as the second Person in the Trinity is vital.

to teach another jesus will be perilous to those who do.

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Is Jesus our High Priest?... I thought He was the Son of God? How can He be both??

LoveofTruth said:

no that is a type. Angels are not types, they are created beings and The Son of God created all things for him and by him and he is before all things. This clearly shows that the eternal Son of God is not a created being as some try to say.

also

if any man denies the Son the same hath not the father 1 John 2.

The identity of the Son of God from everlasting as the second Person in the Trinity is vital.

to teach another jesus will be perilous to those who do.

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And no one has taught another Jesus, none has taught that Jesus is an angel--none has denied the Son. Sorry you can not see that Joshua would not have worshipped an angel--you refuse to even acknowledge this, it's obvious you do not want to see it.