Why do other exorcisms work?

[Tobias]

Very good post, Simon!

I've always taken the words of Jesus on this mater to mean that Satan doesn't go around casting out satan. I suppose it could be done as a trick, but that would almost contradict what Jesus said.

The spirits that inhabit people are a totally different class than the Pricipalities and Powers. The demoniac with the legion of demons who had the habit of breaking chains had to have both types involved, as the ones who inhabit people don't have that kind of power. I don't think anyone could free a man like this without the help of God.

However, there are many cases where these weak possessing spirits find their way into a person's life. If the person decides he's had enough, then by shear willpower alone he could resist satan enough to where it will give up and leave. They aren't interested in sticking around if they can't do anything. That's their whole reason for being there in the first place. I think there are many cases where people have overcome their addictions and other oppression through educating themselves, counceling, and sheer willpower. Demons will give up and leave if you say no to them long enough.

So theoretically I would assume that these weak spirits can also be cast out by an exorcist unassisted by God. It won't do any good if the person doesn't find out how to develop their willpower to keep it out though.

Think about it. There are millions upon millions of people who are Not possessed. How do they stay that way? A demon cast out wanders around, then comes back to the same person he left. Why? Because no one else will let him in!

So, theoretically a demon could be cast out by a non-Christian, and theoretically the person delivered could learn to shut the doorways while it is gone and never let it back in.


But, if anyone still thinks it has to be a Christian to do it, let me ask you this. Do you really believe that everyone who uses the name of Jesus really invokes His power? How many times have we seen people do things in the name of God, yet God has no part in it? Man will call for revival meeting after revival meeting, but does God show up with Revival?

In the same way, many people have called upon the name of God to help deliver someone from demons; yet for some reason God feels no obligation to come. With that in mind, I see no difference in a secular "deliverence" compared with a "Christian" one where God doesn't show up.

 

[Jim B]

Very interesting insights, T.

I got to thinking, when you said ...

I've always taken the words of Jesus on this mater to mean that Satan doesn't go around casting out satan. I suppose it could be done as a trick, but that would almost contradict what Jesus said.

...that wouldn't it be just like the Deceiver and Father of Lies to fool us into believing a demon was cast out by causing it not to affect a person?

And when you said (insightfully, I might add) ...

But, if anyone still thinks it has to be a Christian to do it, let me ask you this. Do you really believe that everyone who uses the name of Jesus really invokes His power?

... I remembered the words of Christ that there would be people He has never known who will cast out demons in His name (or so they will claim).

Matthew 7
21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

\o/

 

[Tobias]

Matthew 7
21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'


I don't know Jim. It sounds like it might back up my theory, but then again it might not.

There is a difference between casting out a demon in Jesus' name, and calling on the name of Jesus without Him showing up. To me it sounds like the people in this scripture actually did do things with the power of God. Otherwise, could a person prophesy and do miracles in their own strength as well?

I think this scripture refers to people who have a calling on their life and act Christian enough for God to use them. But the whole time their hearts are far from Him.

 

[Jim B]

Matthew 7
21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'


I don't know Jim. It sounds like it might back up my theory, but then again it might not.

There is a difference between casting out a demon in Jesus' name, and calling on the name of Jesus without Him showing up. To me it sounds like the people in this scripture actually did do things with the power of God. Otherwise, could a person prophesy and do miracles in their own strength as well?

I think this scripture refers to people who have a calling on their life and act Christian enough for God to use them. But the whole time their hearts are far from Him.

Interesting.

What is your take on the sons of Sceva?

Acts 19
13Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say, "In the name of Jesus, whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out." 14Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. 15One day the evil spirit answered them, "Jesus I know, and I know about Paul, but who are you?" 16Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding.

\o/

 

[Simon_Templar]

Tobias,

I agree, I believe that humans are spiritual beings, as well as physical. We often tend to ignore our spiritual side but it does exist and as such we have spiritual faculties, much like we have physical faculties. I believe that humans have natural spiritual defences which generaly prevent demons from getting in, much like a fortress. Demons use a number of tactics and tricks to try and get in.

I think that there are a number of things that people do which basicly open up the gates and allow demons in, or allow easier access. Involvement with the occult is one way, although even this doesn't necessarily surrender all your defences. Things like drugs and hypnosis are dangerous I think precisely because they lower or bypass the natural defences of your mind and can leave you open.

 

[Tobias]

Interesting.

What is your take on the sons of Sceva?

Acts 19
13Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say, "In the name of Jesus, whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out." 14Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. 15One day the evil spirit answered them, "Jesus I know, and I know about Paul, but who are you?" 16Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding.

\o/

It sounds to me like they were having sucess up until they ran into someone with seriously powerful demons. Obviously they were claiming "Jesus' Name" but not actually casting anything out by the power of God.

Seems to back up my theory wonderfully. Thanks!

 

[Tobias]

Simon,

I think most people who are aflicted with demons are conditioned that way from an early age. The demons get a foot hold when the person is young and vulnerable, and then teaches them to leave the doors to their spirit open for easy access.

Parents have a responsibility to keep a Godly covering over the household. This breaks down if there is strife or blatent sin present. Abusive families not only open the doors spiritually, but also train the children to not respect themselves or set boundaries to defend their own space. Anyone who never learned how to stand up for themselves against people probably doesn't know how to protect themself against unclean spirits.