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Why do other exorcisms work?

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AudioArtist

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We believe that Jesus is divine and His name can deliver us from demonic opression/deliever non believers from a possibility of possession.

However, how comes other methods of getting rid of demons work too? Medians can ask spirits to leave, Shamans can exorcise, witches can, and I've heard Buddists and Muslims have their own working exorcisms too. Why do demons go away when ordered to even if it isn't in the name of Jesus?
 

Big Mouth Nana

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CS2x said:
We believe that Jesus is divine and His name can deliver us from demonic opression/deliever non believers from a possibility of possession.

However, how comes other methods of getting rid of demons work too? Medians can ask spirits to leave, Shamans can exorcise, witches can, and I've heard Buddists and Muslims have their own working exorcisms too. Why do demons go away when ordered to even if it isn't in the name of Jesus?
Matt 7:22 ~ Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

This is just my personal opinion, but I do not believe that demons actually depart on a permanent basis without the name of Jesus. Jesus is the only name that demons are afraid of. If they were freed from the demons, then it would have to be ONLY because of the Mercy of God. These people that you mentioned didn't do it on their own if they didn't use Jesus name.

 
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Jim B

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By His Grace said:
Matt 7:22 ~ Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

This is just my personal opinion, but I do not believe that demons actually depart on a permanent basis without the name of Jesus. Jesus is the only name that demons are afraid of. If they were freed from the demons, then it would have to be ONLY because of the Mercy of God. These people that you mentioned didn't do it on their own if they didn't use Jesus name.

Wow BHG, you sure nailed that one in a hurry!! I am impressed. Really.

Jim
\o/
 
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rhemarob

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CS2x said:
We believe that Jesus is divine and His name can deliver us from demonic opression/deliever non believers from a possibility of possession.

However, how comes other methods of getting rid of demons work too? Medians can ask spirits to leave, Shamans can exorcise, witches can, and I've heard Buddists and Muslims have their own working exorcisms too. Why do demons go away when ordered to even if it isn't in the name of Jesus?
These people can't really get rid of a demon, they are in league with demons, some by choice and some unknowingly, their actions may appear to be effective and even good but its all for show to help dupe innocent people into thinking their beliefs actually hold power and can be used for good purposes.
Even the people performing these rituals are duped into thinking they are serving a powerful and good god by seeing these false results.
A medium and a psychic are truly in touch with the spirits but its not the spirit they think they are in touch with, they are speaking with what the Bible refers to as "familiar spirits" or demons.
They have no authority over these demons at all, they are decieved.
 
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rainbowprism

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rhemarob said:
These people can't really get rid of a demon, they are in league with demons, some by choice and some unknowingly, their actions may appear to be effective and even good but its all for show to help dupe innocent people into thinking their beliefs actually hold power and can be used for good purposes.
Even the people performing these rituals are duped into thinking they are serving a powerful and good god by seeing these false results.
A medium and a psychic are truly in touch with the spirits but its not the spirit they think they are in touch with, they are speaking with what the Bible refers to as "familiar spirits" or demons.
They have no authority over these demons at all, they are decieved.

DITTO
 
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Father Rick

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From what little I know from those who have been in the occult, etc. The 'exorcist' is not actually making the demon leave, but rather having it come out of the oppressed person and into themself--thereby giving themself more 'power'.

PLEASE don't take that as dogma, but that is what I was told and it seems to make sense.
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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Father Rick said:
From what little I know from those who have been in the occult, etc. The 'exorcist' is not actually making the demon leave, but rather having it come out of the oppressed person and into themself--thereby giving themself more 'power'.

PLEASE don't take that as dogma, but that is what I was told and it seems to make sense.
Did you see the movie The Exorcist Father Rick, lol ? That is only in the movies. Scripture bares this up: Matt 12:43 ~ When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places seeking rest, and findeth none.

Luke 11:24 ~ 24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out. They only way that he can return, is if that house isn't swept clean, and the Holy Spirit isn't living there.

 
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Father Rick

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By His Grace said:
Did you see the movie The Exorcist Father Rick, lol ? That is only in the movies. Scripture bares this up: Matt 12:43 ~ When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places seeking rest, and findeth none.

Luke 11:24 ~ 24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out. They only way that he can return, is if that house isn't swept clean, and the Holy Spirit isn't living there.

huh?:scratch:

The question was about non-Christians having the authority to cast out devils. Or at least what appears to be the authority to cast out devils.

Did I miss something?:scratch:
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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Father Rick said:
huh?:scratch:

The question was about non-Christians having the authority to cast out devils. Or at least what appears to be the authority to cast out devils.

Did I miss something?:scratch:
Oh ,lol...sorry. I must have missed something on this thread..........DUH.
 
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Newsboy1900

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i dont believe they can cast them out because of this in luke chap 11.

14 One day Jesus cast a demon out of a man who couldn't speak, and the man's voice returned to him. The crowd was amazed, 15 but some said, "No wonder he can cast out demons. He gets his power from Satan, F55 the prince of demons!" 16 Trying to test Jesus, others asked for a miraculous sign from heaven to see if he was from God. 17 He knew their thoughts, so he said, "Any kingdom at war with itself is doomed. A divided home is also doomed. 18 You say I am empowered by the prince of demons. F56 But if Satan is fighting against himself by empowering me to cast out his demons, how can his kingdom survive? 19 And if I am empowered by the prince of demons, what about your own followers? They cast out demons, too, so they will judge you for what you have said. 20 But if I am casting out demons by the power of God, then the Kingdom of God has arrived among you. 21 For when Satan, F57 who is completely armed, guards his palace, it is safe – 22 until someone who is stronger attacks and overpowers him, strips him of his weapons, and carries off his belongings. 23 "Anyone who isn't helping me opposes me, and anyone who isn't working with me is actually working against me. 24 "When an evil spirit leaves a person, it goes into the desert, searching for rest. But when it finds none, it says, 'I will return to the person I came from.' 25 So it returns and finds that its former home is all swept and clean. 26 Then the spirit finds seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they all enter the person and live there. And so that person is worse off than before."
 
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Sequel

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Demonology before the Cross has changed drammatically. Today it has become a demon world by the sheer numbers of about 8 demon to 1 Christian and is increasing.

Having been in 28 years of demonic deliverance ministry, the encounters with demonic spirits do indicate there is a tremendous intrusion into mankind and a serious battle for the bodies they enter. Aside from non-Christians, we are seeing and hearing, demonic spirits fighting amongst themselves.

Regarding non-Christians casting out demons, scripturally non-Christians do not have the God power to cast out demons, unless they apply the Name of Jesus. After thousands of exorcisms, I have never encountered any non-Christians casting out demons.
 
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enoch son

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CS2x said:
Ok, you may not have encountered it, but there's plenty of online stuff whereby demons are cast out/asked to leave by mediums, shamans, buddists, etc...

So you think maybe the reasons these exorcisms can occur is because demons can fight against themselves?
And who is telling them they are cast out by mediums etc. THE DEMONS THEMSELF? OXYMORON ISN'T IT? CAN SATAN CAST OUT SATAN? WHY WOULD HE? I beleve he would answer them "Oh I fear for my spiritual life I must leave now because you are so powerful! Here I go! See me leave!" THINK ABOUT IT?
Praise God Jesus cast the enemy out John 12-31
 
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Tobias

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God gave each one of us authority over our own bodies. Demonic possession occures when we abdicate our place of authority and allow other spirits to have a place in us.

Exorcisms work without the hand of God involved because deliverance from demons is a matter of our own will. Many Christians call upon the name of God during an exorcism, yet God may not always show up. Something like all the church services He chooses not to show up to on Sunday morning.

Demons will leave (they have to) when the person they inhabit tells them to go. However, they know that they have taught their subject well, and that the door will soon swing back open for them to return. The biggest key to staying delivered is to learn how to keep the doors closed.

The power of God is awesome to feel when He delivers someone from demons. Personally I wouldn't ever try it without checking first with Him and seeing if He is willing to do it. There is such a thing as timming in a person's life. Most Christians do not wait on God however, and go barging in expecting God to summon the troops to cover their butts.
 
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Lee

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Sequel said:
Demonology before the Cross has changed drammatically. Today it has become a demon world by the sheer numbers of about 8 demon to 1 Christian and is increasing.

Having been in 28 years of demonic deliverance ministry, the encounters with demonic spirits do indicate there is a tremendous intrusion into mankind and a serious battle for the bodies they enter. Aside from non-Christians, we are seeing and hearing, demonic spirits fighting amongst themselves.

Regarding non-Christians casting out demons, scripturally non-Christians do not have the God power to cast out demons, unless they apply the Name of Jesus. After thousands of exorcisms, I have never encountered any non-Christians casting out demons.
Sounds something interesting...

Can you share some bits of your expertise? I like to know because I am a young one who is desiring to be used in the deliverence ministry.

Can you share with me your first time deliverance ministry?

oh! better yet just go to this link. Because this is a new topic which needs a new startup thread.

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=8413916#post8413916
 
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Lottedah

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non christian exorcisms usually make the victim more demonized only the demon doing the work will let up.. if only to put the victim in deeper deception thinking a witch doctor or whatever medium other than jesus they use is the way and authority.
As for exorcisms if you come anywhere near fathoming the power of God in us through the holy spirit.. those demons fly out like lightening bugs fast as they can away in fear.
There is no magic words to exorcise a person or a ritual its all about faith in God and knowing the power of the holy spirit he put in you..
 
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Simon_Templar

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ok, I'd like to preface what I say here with the comment that alot of this is my opinion, some of it is directly biblical, some of it is drawn from apocrypha etc. I don't claim all of this to be doctrine, its just my view based on what I've seen to this point.

ok, first of all, there is relatively little said in scripture about demons, or casting out demons etc. So little in fact that there is still debate about what demons even are. There are two common views within christianity as to what demons are, and a couple of less common views as well. The most common view is probably simply that demons are fallen angels. However, Angels are also a fairly mysterious topic and not much is said about them in the bible.
Some people do not believe that demons are fallen angels because of the fact that the few refrences in the scriptures to demons and fallen angels differ significantly. fallen Angels are almost always refrenced in terms of residing in the air above the earth, while demons are exclusively mentioned as earth bound spirits that walk the surface of the earth. Fallen angels are depicted as princes and powers while demons are much lower, begging and whining etc. another major difference is that demons seem to crave to inhabit bodies, while there is no mention of this at all for fallen angels.

In the bible Jesus does give some indication that different things are required to cast out different demons.. some times simply a command in the name of Jesus was enough, another time this was not enough, and Jesus said that that particular kind of demon could not be cast out unless the person who was casting him out had prayed and fasted before hand.
In the book of Tobit, which is part of the apocrypha, there is an instance in which the angel Raphael shows a person how to drive a demon out of a home by burning a particular substance. Granted the apocrypha may not be inspired scripture but it has been recognised by both Jews and christians for thousands of years as truthful and worthy of consideration. This could indicate that there is much more involved in the spiritual world than we think.

An idea often put forward is that non christians casting out demons is basicly a trick to decieve. However, this accusation was leveled against Jesus and his response was that Satan does not cast out satan, and a house divided can't stand. This would tend to indicate that demons do not cast out other demons, or satanic power can not be used to cast out a demon. Thus if a demonic manifestation is cast out, and I have seen instances where it seems to have been, I don't think "they're doing it by occult power" is a valid answer.

One thing to consider of course, is that Jesus said, when a demon is cast out, it wanders for a time, and then returns, and if it finds its former host empty and unprotected, it will go in and bring friends this time, and make things worse. Even if non christians are able to cast out demons, they are only making things worse in the end if the victim doesn't turn to God and the protection of his Spirit.
 
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