Why do other Christians hate Calvinist so much?

strelok0017 · Jan 15, 2012

DeaconDean said:
The preceding four posts are clear cut examples of the hatred of Calvinists like myself and the constant:

We are constantly accused of following John Calvin rather than Christ.

Is there any question as to why there is animosity here?

God Bless

Till all are one.

I guess, I've never been accused of that but what I did find interesting in my experience is this. When God wanted me to get rid of an idol I had in my life I kept resisting and self justifying myself. What greatly helped me are sermons of Dr. John Piper (he's a Calvinist). Calvinism is just what John Calvin taught, and that is the Bible. Same with Saint Augustine. Theologically I'm a Calvinist too but before I ever became a Calvinist I was a Christian. I don't know if all Calvinists are like that but I know that true God centeredness which Dr. Piper preaches absolutely revolutionized my world view. It was not what he said tho, but what God said. I don't know if you would agree but I know that Bible encourages and only wants us to be radically God centered. I like to picture Calvinism to be so. It's just a name of the teaching of the Bible.

Skala · Jan 15, 2012

People hate Calvinism because it gives God all the glory for salvation.

strelok0017 · Jan 15, 2012

Skala said:
People hate Calvinism because it gives God all the glory for salvation.

You sure? I used to think it was because they have a wrong view of it; at least Catholics and other born again non Calvinists. I know that for months after I got saved I still held a very, I wouldn't say negative view of predestination, but I had my fears. In time God led me to see that it is indeed the way that the Bible speaks. Funny thing is that I've been listening to Calvinist preacher for months before leaving the RCC and I had no clue that he was a Calvinist. I think that people don't hate Calvinism, but that they are scared of it. It's fully God centered way of thinking and living to ascribe all the glory to God for and in everything. Most know that theologically but still have a world view that isn't really in accord with the word of God. I should know because when God told me that my video games were my idol 4 months ago what held me was His work through strong, God centered theology for which I later found out: it was Calvinism all this time. Since the day I've been saved. Don't get me wrong, it was the Bible and the work of God but all that Calvinism does is teach it. Getting rid of an idol really showed me how much self centered I was. That's what Calvinism does but as much as I think it's good, praiseworthy and correct I will only identify myself with Jesus. Calvinist, am I? Sure. But I'll never let that term burden my heart. I think that to many people it actually has that effect. One preacher said that he really wants to see everyone become a Calvinist. I would correct it by saying every Christian.
Maybe it had something to do with my background but Calvinism is something I embrace now and 6 months ago the term "predestination" is as scary as I could imagine. What we were told in elementary school about it (not Calvinism but Protestants) is that they believe that some people were made to go to hell. I think that it is a horrible misunderstanding. Funny tho, what I was afraid all this time turned out to be the way I see it myself now.

His_disciple3 · Jan 15, 2012

Hammster said:
Oh heck, I'll chime in.

I gave been part of this debate for over three years now, mostly over in Soteriology. And with very few exceptions, it usually comes down to the anti-Calvinists making false accusations against what we believe (such as HisDisciple saying we follow a man and not Christ).

We have been accused of changing the meanings of words (I started a thread once and asked for examples and got nothing). We have been accused of making man into puppets/robots. And the list goes on. In other words, the arguments are weak and rely on twisting what we actually believe and ignoring the evidence.

Although I don't run from the Calvinist moniker, I prefer monergist because it avoids some of the negative connotations.

Also, in almost any debate/discussion over this issue, we can provide scriptural support of our doctrine be using whole passages and good exegesis. The angry response is most often a single verse or a string of verses that are removed from their context (John 3:16, 2 Peter 3:9, etc), and this is the entirety of the rejoinder.

What would be nice is to have this discussion with someone who is familiar with what we believe and has taken the time to do just a little reading on their own (as opposed to reading what someone else has said about it). The simplest is the Canons of Dort, which can be found online. Then the discussion can be on what we actually believe, and not on some straw-man argument.

well for starters I never said you weren't following Christ actually I said paul said follow me as I follow Christ, thus also I didn't say anything was wrong with following Man! see how the two preceding post has twisted what I have said. my friend you have never asked me how calvinist has to say that what the Bible says is not what it means. and I showed how two words in one verse( john 3:16) was used exactly like that in order for a calvinist to tear down what the sovereign God has stated in His Holy Word. whosoever can't mean whosoever unless that whosoever is one of the elect, and world can't mean the world it can only mean one world of two worlf the elect and the non elect! I don't get mad when a Calvinist twists what I have said, God said that they have twisted my word before they twisted yours. but I showed from scriptures that the world in John 3:16 meant the whole world, for John 3:17 says so that they MIGHT(gives an option) here that they might be saved, if 16 is referring to the world of the elect, then 17 should that He came that His world of the elect will be saved. i mean if you are the world of elect, then there should no MIGHT be to your salvation now should there?

His_disciple3 · Jan 15, 2012

DeaconDean said:
I couldn't agree more.

It has been said:

I wonder why?

Is it because Calvinists take man out of the equasion?

Is it because scriptures say that God always takes the first steps towards us?

Is it because Calvinists make it all about grace?

Is it because we make God the rightful sovereign the He is, while man is no more than an insignificant "fly-speck" that he is?

I guess it is because we make it all about God, while others make it all about man.

Never mind what God has done for us, its more along the lines of what man has done, or can do, or will do for God.

Grace Grace, Wonderful Grace, Words and Music by: Edwin Brown

God Bless

Till all are one.

well there's no wonder why I hate the calvinist doctrine of Grace I have said it plenty of times but once again let me repeat it deac. cause I luvs you. you have to say that the word don't mean what it says.
also i find it not strange that you would quote the words of man in a song to prove your doctrine, let me give you scriptures. By Grace through Faith that we are saved. and not that of works. I give God all the Glory for my salvation and my God given choice to choose life over death, and I am obedient to His calling and His scriptures by calling upon the name of the Lord!

His_disciple3 · Jan 15, 2012

Robs07M6S said:
I have made it abudantly clear in the past that their are plenty of scriptures which I do not understand and leave me scratching my head when I consider the calvinistic view of Salvation. I do lean towards calvinism but I have yet to fully embrace it because of many passages which would seem to teach against it and the failure of others to properly explain the passages which I have in question. Instead it seems that many just get mad or aggravated when I bring up a good honest issue regarding calvinism and eventually they just stop speaking to me all together I guess because they themselves cannot answer my concerns.

there's usually always one exception to every rule. and I say good for you, Rob

Bella Vita · Jan 15, 2012

I don't see the need to argue about it what are we accomplishing by doing that. I stand firm that Calvinism is the truth. By arguing it do people think they are going to change my mind? Because your not and vice versa so what is the point? Let people believe in the theology they want.

Also the stereotype that Calvinist are all stuck up and think they are better than others because they are chosen is wrong. We are not all like that and for those who are that is pride and is a sin. Calvinist still believe in preaching the gospel to all as commanded by Jesus because we have no way of knowing who God will have mercy on and who he won't. This is false yet I see those against Calvinism accusing Calvinist of this all the time it is annoying!!

DeaconDean · Jan 15, 2012

His_disciple3 said:
well there's no wonder why I hate the calvinist doctrine of Grace I have said it plenty of times but once again let me repeat it deac. cause I luvs you. you have to say that the word don't mean what it says.

Now when have I said that?

Produce the exact post in which i said "the word don't say what it says."

If you can't do that, then you have done nothing more than produce false accusations.

So produce it.

also i find it not strange that you would quote the words of man in a song to prove your doctrine, let me give you scriptures. By Grace through Faith that we are saved. and not that of works. I give God all the Glory for my salvation and my God given choice to choose life over death, and I am obedient to His calling and His scriptures by calling upon the name of the Lord!

I never said you didn't.

I just took issue with your perceived perseption of the Calvinist view of grace.

It is wrong.

With Calvinists, its all about grace and nothing but the grace of God.

God Bless

Till all are one.

jax5434 · Jan 15, 2012

Bella Vita said:
I really don't understand this very clear hatred of those who believe in the theory of Calvinism. You may disagree and that is your right but it is also our right to believe in it. There are scriptures to back both sides of this debate to each his own after doing your own individual research. I see it all over CF and it gets very mean and cruel at times. Something about this debate makes people leave the Christian part of them outside the debate and the anger takes over. I don't see why this has to divide us as much as it does we all have the same big goal and the same big belief system. The little stuff is stupid to fight over discuss it give your views fine but when it crosses into being sinful behavior to back your side enough is enough you are no longer pleasing anyone especially not God!

Everyone here really needs to reel it in on this topic. I have seen enough around here to make me sick. Many should be ashamed of the way they have behaved toward others because of this topic.

Get it together and be like Christ in all things!!

I agree, but the anger ( I refuse to believe it is actually hate) goes both ways and has been going on for what, 500 years or so? I doubt we can put an end to it here but one can hope.

jax5434 · Jan 16, 2012

DeaconDean said:
I couldn't agree more.

I told myself that I would not do this again.
In another thread on this board I was informed that Calvinist and non-Calvinist do not worship the same God. Since I'm quite sure that the poster is a Calvinist I believe he was telling me that I am not a Christian, not saved, and presumably worship a false God.

I've been around here long enough to know that is not the position of every Calvinist on this forum, but I also know that he is not the only one. Do you wonder why I might be angry?

Deacon, thank you for these questions.

Is it because Calvinists take man out of the equasion?

Click to expand...

No

Is it because scriptures say that God always takes the first steps towards us?

Click to expand...

NO

Is it because Calvinists make it all about grace?

Click to expand...

NO

Is it because we make God the rightful sovereign the He is, while man is no more than an insignificant "fly-speck" that he is

Click to expand...

NO

I guess it is because we make it all about God, while others make it all about man.

Click to expand...

NO

Never mind what God has done for us, its more along the lines of what man has done, or can do, or will do for God.

Click to expand...

No

If you believe that any of these questions is the reason for our differences the you are as ignorant of Non-Calvinist theology as so often (and sometimes rightfully) you accuse Non-Calvinist of being of yours.

We reject Calvinism because we believe that, in our opinion, the logical conclusion of Calvinism is that makes God the author and originator of sin which we believe is an unscriptural position.
Before anyone fires off a heated, but not hateful, response let me point out that I did not accuse Calvinists of actually believing that, only that to NC's that seems to be the logical conclusion of your theology.

In the same manner Calvinist believe the logical conclusion of NC theology is the denial of God's Sovereignity.

If we must continue to debate this lets at least understand what our differences are.

God Bless
Jax

Rhamiel · Jan 16, 2012

I know i can not debate here, but since the OP asked for why other Christians hate Calvinists might I be allowed to add my POV?

His_disciple3 · Jan 16, 2012

DeaconDean said:
Now when have I said that?

Produce the exact post in which i said "the word don't say what it says."

If you can't do that, then you have done nothing more than produce false accusations.

So produce it.

I never said you didn't.

I just took issue with your perceived perseption of the Calvinist view of grace.

It is wrong.

With Calvinists, its all about grace and nothing but the grace of God.

God Bless

Till all are one.

ok deac. you are right I forgot that you don't read others post. you just come into a thread WITH GUNS A BLAZING! blasting away. Ok John 3:16 does the world mean the world ? does whosoever mean whosoever, Rev. 22 does whosoever will, let Him come and drink of the water of life freely, again does whosoever mean whosoever. or does it mean the elect? What saith ye deac? in Romans 5:18
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
KJV
now deac here we know that by adam all men sin, but does all men by Jesus Christ, receive the Free gift unto justification. so all means all in one part of this verse does it mean all men unto justification of life? come on deac you demanded that I answer you, now what saith ye. hey deac. does the whole world mean the whole world in this verse? :
1 John 2:2
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
KJV
still claiming to be a calvinist and saying that you don't have to say that these verses don't mean what they are saying? if "being the elect" means you have been chosen to be in, then why did the teacher in scriptures of predestination (According to calvinist) write these words? : 2 Timothy 2:10
10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
KJV
why does the elect need to obtain salvation, if they have been predestined before time begin as we know it?

His_disciple3 · Jan 16, 2012

Bella Vita said:
I don't see the need to argue about it what are we accomplishing by doing that. I stand firm that Calvinism is the truth. By arguing it do people think they are going to change my mind? Because your not and vice versa so what is the point? Let people believe in the theology they want.

Also the stereotype that Calvinist are all stuck up and think they are better than others because they are chosen is wrong. We are not all like that and for those who are that is pride and is a sin. Calvinist still believe in preaching the gospel to all as commanded by Jesus because we have no way of knowing who God will have mercy on and who he won't. This is false yet I see those against Calvinism accusing Calvinist of this all the time it is annoying!!

ok bella, I am not discussing with you about the doctrine of calvinism you have stated in other post that you don't believe, what true calvinist believe. so my discussion with you is why say you are a calvinist? you can say you see salvation by predestination without labeling yourself as a calvinist! if we have no free will, and the Sovereign God of the Universe, is in charge. and He makes people love Him and He makes people do what they do, then the islamics involved in 911, had no responiblities for all those deaths, they were obedient to God even though they claim to serve another god, God of the Christian bible made them kill all those people for He is sovereign according to the calvinist doctrine and nothing happens without him being in charge, nothing? if all men have sinned through Adam then the calvinist god made me sin but yet may hold me responsible for that sin. with no way of escaping the wages of sin, and yet he is just and sovereign because he is god! and when the same scriptures that says he is sovereign and put a sin nature on all men, I am wrong when I say that the scriptures say that all men can come into that righteousness, that all men will have the same choice to escape that sin nature through Jesus Christ the Righteous!
Bella could you say with all your heart that you fully understand the Calvinist explanation of who god is and how he works, and that you totally agree with that explanation of God?

His_disciple3 · Jan 16, 2012

DeaconDean said:
I never said you didn't.

I just took issue with your perceived perseption of the Calvinist view of grace.

It is wrong.

With Calvinists, its all about grace and nothing but the grace of God.

God Bless

Till all are one.

are you saying that calvinist believe that whosoever will, can call upon the name of the Lord and be saved? that all men have a chance through Christ to be saved?

wpbarrett · Jan 16, 2012

i agree alot with Calvin, but i will not label myself a Calvinist. the word of God was around way before Calvin was. I prefer and love the title Christian its enough for me, and I'm very thankful for it.

DeaconDean · Jan 16, 2012

His_disciple3 said:
ok deac. you are right I forgot that you don't read others post. you just come into a thread WITH GUNS A BLAZING! blasting away. Ok John 3:16 does the world mean the world ? does whosoever mean whosoever, Rev. 22 does whosoever will, let Him come and drink of the water of life freely, again does whosoever mean whosoever. or does it mean the elect? What saith ye deac? in Romans 5:18
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
KJV
now deac here we know that by adam all men sin, but does all men by Jesus Christ, receive the Free gift unto justification. so all means all in one part of this verse does it mean all men unto justification of life? come on deac you demanded that I answer you, now what saith ye. hey deac. does the whole world mean the whole world in this verse? :
1 John 2:2
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
KJV
still claiming to be a calvinist and saying that you don't have to say that these verses don't mean what they are saying? if "being the elect" means you have been chosen to be in, then why did the teacher in scriptures of predestination (According to calvinist) write these words? : 2 Timothy 2:10
10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
KJV
why does the elect need to obtain salvation, if they have been predestined before time begin as we know it?

Here again, if you cannot produce a post where I said what you accuse me of, you are spreading false accusations.

So I demand that you do one of three things.

Either apologize, recant, or produce the post.

I'm taking issue with your false accusations of me, spreading lies about me.

Either produce the post or have the Baptist area here know you that you falsely accuse brethren.

I'll be waiting.

God Bless

Till all are one.

ChrisPharmD · Jan 16, 2012

Man... and last night I was worried about my problems... You guys sit here like elementary school kids bickering all day.

Hm...

ByronArn · Jan 16, 2012

I don't hate Calvinists. I don't even hate Calvinism. I disagree with some of their interpretations, but I don't hate them. Hate does not exist within me, since Christ regenerated me.

I am a Reformed (aka, Classical) Arminian. There are some things I disagree with Calvinism on, and there are some things I disagree with most Arminians on. But I value diversity within the Church. I don't think God ever meant for every single Christian to see things the exact same way.

WinBySurrender · Jan 16, 2012

wpbarrett said:
i agree alot with Calvin, but i will not label myself a Calvinist. the word of God was around way before Calvin was. I prefer and love the title Christian its enough for me, and I'm very thankful for it.

And that's the way it is! This should end the thread. The arguments become ludicrous.

cimbk · Jan 16, 2012

Bella Vita said:
I really don't understand this very clear hatred of those who believe in the theory of Calvinism. You may disagree and that is your right but it is also our right to believe in it. There are scriptures to back both sides of this debate to each his own after doing your own individual research. I see it all over CF and it gets very mean and cruel at times. Something about this debate makes people leave the Christian part of them outside the debate and the anger takes over. I don't see why this has to divide us as much as it does we all have the same big goal and the same big belief system. The little stuff is stupid to fight over discuss it give your views fine but when it crosses into being sinful behavior to back your side enough is enough you are no longer pleasing anyone especially not God!

Everyone here really needs to reel it in on this topic. I have seen enough around here to make me sick. Many should be ashamed of the way they have behaved toward others because of this topic.

Get it together and be like Christ in all things!!

your own post reflects you see the truth but your indoctrination holds you back from recieving the truth, you say "there are scriptures to back both sides".........a correct interpretation then would be both sides are right on this issue and either one by itself is wrong. this is the way one rightly divides the word of God, I don't hate Calvinist, I hate not keeping in allignment with what the bible teaches, one of the first things wrong about Calvinism is naming your faction or sect after a man who designed this doctrine, right out of the biblical gate this is error, why don't you see that? and at least for starters stop calling yourself "Calvinest" its unbiblical! as for why so many are strongly against this one sided teaching, because its built on a few passages, and so many others contradict it, in so many ways, that it has only one possibility, that it is error for it to stand alone as a truth. also the ramifications of this teaching for some (not all) are disasterous, not for Calvin himself (at least not yet) or anyone else that lived a godly life and allowed the Holy Spirit to correct wrong behaviors. If the bible is a good and faithful guide, why does it hold so many things against Calvinistic teaching.......that is what angers many Christians, much the same way the Jehovah Witnesses have rewritten the bible to the tune of their false doctrine. bottom line Calvinist teaching has taken a truth and carried it so far to one side of the road that it went into the ditch. It lacks any biblical balance

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