Why do Muslims call to Islam? And why others must listen to them?

[Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win]

aslip of the finger does not spell ignorance.there is a big difference between a mistake and Ignorance.

Tell me 'bout it!

 

[OrthodoxServant86]

I haven't killed anyone, I don't support these "modern crusades," as you call them and that is beside the point, the question of the thread is regarding muslims using force to spread their message, and the answer is that they do, so I'm done here.

 

[Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win]

I haven't killed anyone, I don't support these "modern crusades," as you call them and that is beside the point, the question of the thread is regarding muslims using force to spread their message, and the answer is that they do, so I'm done here.

Which I tried to explain through the parable of the child and the medicine.

 

[Montalban]

So your modern crusades have not killed anybody,you are all innocent by standers, Who slaughtered Muslims by the Million In Bosnia Because they Are Musli.Who until today are Killing Innocent Muslim women and Children in chechnya because they want their freedom to practice their Islam in their own land.You see only one side. So you are too bitter to call Muslims who they really are but you turn a blind eye to the reality of what is happening in the world. In Philipines south Philipines the only patr where muslims are left, they too cannot have their freedom to Be muslium in their land.Christianity is forced on them or death. Call them terrorists , a whole population just because it would suit your agenda.Muslim blood is cheapo around the world.What about Kashmir where they want to be n independant Muslim country to Practice their Islam. Are yopu blind to all this. How decieved you are in this world to think that GOD loves you when he has made you blind to the realities of this world.You don't want to see the truth.Otherwise GOD would show you the truth.
peace

The 'Crusades' (the Christian ones of old were not an action, but a re-action; remember that the ares of north Africa, asia minor, the Levant were once Christian until conquored by Muslims).

Muhammed himself set the example of conquest, and the treatment of Prisoners-of-war when he allowed the execution of over 600 men of the Banu Quarayza tribe.

He instigated a regime of discrimination of non-Moslems by creating a class of people called 'Dhimmi'

For rights of Dhimmi

See:

http://www.answering-islam.org/NonMuslims/rights.htm



For Muslim attempts at genocide

See:

http://www.fr-d-serfes.org/orthodox/memoryof.htm

and

http://debate.org.uk/topics/history/xstnc-6.html



Current persecutions of Christians

Documenting the Persecution of Christians in the Islamic World

http://www.domini.org/openbook/

and

Voice of the Martyrs

http://www.vom.com.au/

(note this includes persecutions of Christians by non-Muslims)

 

[Bookofknowledge]

The 'Crusades' (the Christian ones of old were not an action, but a re-action; remember that the ares of north Africa, asia minor, the Levant were once Christian until conquored by Muslims).

Muhammed himself set the example of conquest, and the treatment of Prisoners-of-war when he allowed the execution of over 600 men of the Banu Quarayza tribe.

He instigated a regime of discrimination of non-Moslems by creating a class of people called 'Dhimmi'

For rights of Dhimmi

If you agree with the re-action theory, why don't you go little further in your research and find Why muslims migrated from mecca at first place?

 

[Montalban]

If you agree with the re-action theory, why don't you go little further in your research and find Why muslims migrated from mecca at first place?

If you term it a 'mirgation' rather than a conquest then we're probably not dealing with the same view of history. Hence some Muslims call their capture of Constantinople a 'liberation' even though it wasn't a Turkish or Muslim city anyway.

If we have a common understanding of the events we might be able to progress with a discussion.

 

[Montalban]

can you please give examples with proofs of how Muslims spread Islam in the Middle please.I would like to know.
Peace

Muhammad himself showed the way of 'peace' by first raiding caravans from Mecca (when he had run in fear to Medina; an event which is the start-date of the Islamic calendar). Later as his power grew he led armies against Mecca and then in turn turned against his own allies and had them slaughtered.

Islam then spread out from there by force. It is not coincidence that one of the symbols of Islam is the curved sword.

 

[caller_to_truth]

I haven't killed anyone, I don't support these "modern crusades," as you call them and that is beside the point, the question of the thread is regarding muslims using force to spread their message, and the answer is that they do, so I'm done here.

here is a very interesting article about how the christian missionaries do to convert muslims.Read it is very interesting then we see that the shoe of Forcing religion on people is on the other foot

The Christain Missionary Menace



Christian organizations and missionaries have launched an intense proselytizing campaign in Muslim countries. The poverty, misery and starvation of the impoverished Muslims are being exploited by these missionaries to proselytize them. Welfare measures, developmental, health and educational programs form the backbone of their massive campaign. Relief aid is being organized with the explicit purpose of converting the indigent Muslims to Christianity. Systematic religious propaganda and indoctrination are being carried out on an unprecedented scale. They have achieved immense successes in this field. "Then Trojan Horse" which has entered the Muslim lands is posing a great threat to their Imaan(faith) and Islam. They are in full swing in countries like Bangladesh and Indonesia where they expect to convert half the population to their faith by the year 2000. Indigent Muslims driven by poverty and misery grovel at the feet of the kuffar for relief and succor at the cost of their Imaan. Cross stupidity and crass ignorance have caused them to barter their Emaan for some miserable gains of the Dunya (world). The kuffaar (unbelievers)await such conditions to arise among the impoverished Muslims to rush relief aids with the underlying motive of evangelization. This vicious Octopus of Kufr has extended its deadly tentacles to a network of outlying villages in Muslim countries to mislead unwary and uninformed Muslims and entrap them in the web of dark kufr(disbeleif). It is said that in Bangladesh alone they are operating in over 800 villages. Asaf Hussain writes about the predicament in Bangladesh: "the ultimate objective of the numerous mission organizations and agencies operating there is the evangelization of the people of Bangladesh .... As such economic development was not an end in itself to benefit the people, but a means for proselytizing them. Missionaries were therefore, very articulate about their developmental schemes but very reticent about evangelization of the people. Particularly, in the case of Muslims any such statistics of evangelization of Muslims was not published." (BIRTH OF BANGLADESH THE POLITICAL ROLE OF MISSIONS)



In the present times, the Emaan of the Muslims have reached a low ebb. It is like a shaking reed. It is further emaciated by crass ignorance and abject poverty. It has provided a fertile ground for religious rivals to sow the seeds of apostasy among the impoverished and unwary Muslims. Ignorant Muslims consider these crusading religious bodies as great benefactors of humanity. They are prepared to even abandon their faith for the contemptible gains of the Dunya. Hence, in these countries the number who has embraced Christianity amounts to legion. The old myth that the Muslims are staunch believers and cannot be converted to any other religion holds no water. Modern missionaries with their vast resources and foreign aid have exploded this myth. They are scoring great successes in this field. Asaf Hussain writes: "Christian Missions are approaching Muslim populations in a very systematic and well organized manner. They lack neither finds nor organization nor expertise. The Muslim countries, on the other hand, have done nothing to counteract this. On the contrary, they are confident that Muslims cannot be converted and in some cases actively extend help to accomplish the mission work. This is only a self-delusion and in the long run it will turn out that Muslims are increasingly becoming Christians." (Birth of Bangladesh: The Political Role of Missions)



Read the rest of the article here.





This is just one of the articles on this line that i posses showing the works of the Modern crusades

READ!

Peace​

 

[Bookofknowledge]

If you term it a 'mirgation' rather than a conquest then we're probably not dealing with the same view of history. Hence some Muslims call their capture of Constantinople a 'liberation' even though it wasn't a Turkish or Muslim city anyway.

If we have a common understanding of the events we might be able to progress with a discussion.

you should watch the move "The Message", I am talking about the bigining of Islam... I am talking about the age when muslims were not even allowed to self defance and how muslims were treated during those days.

What I am trying to say is the initial start is not Muslims.

 

[AudioArtist]

here is a very interesting article about how the christian missionaries do to convert muslims.Read it is very interesting then we see that the shoe of Forcing religion on people is on the other foot

The Christain Missionary Menace



Christian organizations and missionaries have launched an intense proselytizing campaign in Muslim countries. The poverty, misery and starvation of the impoverished Muslims are being exploited by these missionaries to proselytize them. Welfare measures, developmental, health and educational programs form the backbone of their massive campaign. Relief aid is being organized with the explicit purpose of converting the indigent Muslims to Christianity. Systematic religious propaganda and indoctrination are being carried out on an unprecedented scale. They have achieved immense successes in this field. "Then Trojan Horse" which has entered the Muslim lands is posing a great threat to their Imaan(faith) and Islam. They are in full swing in countries like Bangladesh and Indonesia where they expect to convert half the population to their faith by the year 2000. Indigent Muslims driven by poverty and misery grovel at the feet of the kuffar for relief and succor at the cost of their Imaan. Cross stupidity and crass ignorance have caused them to barter their Emaan for some miserable gains of the Dunya (world). The kuffaar (unbelievers)await such conditions to arise among the impoverished Muslims to rush relief aids with the underlying motive of evangelization. This vicious Octopus of Kufr has extended its deadly tentacles to a network of outlying villages in Muslim countries to mislead unwary and uninformed Muslims and entrap them in the web of dark kufr(disbeleif). It is said that in Bangladesh alone they are operating in over 800 villages. Asaf Hussain writes about the predicament in Bangladesh: "the ultimate objective of the numerous mission organizations and agencies operating there is the evangelization of the people of Bangladesh .... As such economic development was not an end in itself to benefit the people, but a means for proselytizing them. Missionaries were therefore, very articulate about their developmental schemes but very reticent about evangelization of the people. Particularly, in the case of Muslims any such statistics of evangelization of Muslims was not published." (BIRTH OF BANGLADESH THE POLITICAL ROLE OF MISSIONS)



In the present times, the Emaan of the Muslims have reached a low ebb. It is like a shaking reed. It is further emaciated by crass ignorance and abject poverty. It has provided a fertile ground for religious rivals to sow the seeds of apostasy among the impoverished and unwary Muslims. Ignorant Muslims consider these crusading religious bodies as great benefactors of humanity. They are prepared to even abandon their faith for the contemptible gains of the Dunya. Hence, in these countries the number who has embraced Christianity amounts to legion. The old myth that the Muslims are staunch believers and cannot be converted to any other religion holds no water. Modern missionaries with their vast resources and foreign aid have exploded this myth. They are scoring great successes in this field. Asaf Hussain writes: "Christian Missions are approaching Muslim populations in a very systematic and well organized manner. They lack neither finds nor organization nor expertise. The Muslim countries, on the other hand, have done nothing to counteract this. On the contrary, they are confident that Muslims cannot be converted and in some cases actively extend help to accomplish the mission work. This is only a self-delusion and in the long run it will turn out that Muslims are increasingly becoming Christians." (Birth of Bangladesh: The Political Role of Missions)



Read the rest of the article here.





This is just one of the articles on this line that i posses showing the works of the Modern crusades



READ!

Peace​

Uhhhh...sorry, but where is the menace in this?

To be honest, I don't really always agree with missionary work like this. But this particular article has nothing to say. Oh no! Those pesky Christians, helping the poor! Ahhhh....but here is the *evil* part-they're converting Muslims to Christianity! shock, horror, etc.

 

[caller_to_truth]

you should watch the move "The Message", I am talking about the bigining of Islam... I am talking about the age when muslims were not even allowed to self defance and how muslims were treated during those days.

What I am trying to say is the initial start is not Muslims.

Hey bro don't mention that on here man they are going to remove your post foir promoting Islam. We can't post anything on here without being told we are promoting our faith.why the section non christian religion is ther for if not to inform others about other religions I don't know.
Peace be with you bro.

 

[caller_to_truth]

Uhhhh...sorry, but where is the menace in this?

To be honest, I don't really always agree with missionary work like this. But this particular article has nothing to say. Oh no! Those pesky Christians, helping the poor! Ahhhh....but here is the *evil* part-they're converting Muslims to Christianity! shock, horror, etc.

Read this one if the other did not hit home.It is very long and if I post the link I will get a warning for promoting islam.

CON’VERT THE MUSLIMS
​

Compiled by IMTIAZ BASHEER AHMED

Islam, the second largest Religion in the world and it is the fastest growing Religion in the world. There are around 1.5 billion adherents of Islam in the world and unfortunately Islam is the most misunderstood Religion in the world.

For centuries Christianity was the dominant Religion in the world, it felt no threat from any other way of life or any other philosophy prevailed at that time. And Christianity was dominating and church had the highest authority, but it was all until Islam emerged in the main stage of the world and People accepted Islam in huge waves, the conversions were so massive that Islam became the threat to the faith and creed of Christianity because Christianity was loosing its customers in every nation where Message of Islam reached through the Muslims. First time in the history of Christianity it faced a very strong competitor, a very strong opponent according to the followers of the Christianity.

The enmity of Islam grew very much amongst the learned men of Christendom and they wanted to respond to the call of Islam in every possible way and this even included the military action against the Muslims.

CRUSADES
Pope Urban II , in 1095, gave a rousing speech urging all Christians to unite against the Islamic threat and save Jerusalem from “the wicked race” of Saracens (a fairly nasty term for Arabs & Muslims). On July 15 1099, the crusaders from western Europe conquered Jerusalem, falling upon its Jewish and Muslim inhabitants like avenging angels from the Apocalypse. About 40,000 Muslims were slaughtered in two days. A thriving populous city had been transformed into a stinking charnel house.
The enmity against Islam was so immense, the venom of hatred against Islam was inculcated in the minds and hearts of people that even small children’s were against Islam, In the year 1212 the first children crusade was led by Stephen of France, a 12 year old shepherd boy. Stephen said that God had appeared to him in a vision on a hillside near Cloyes in France. God told him that only innocent children could drive the bad guys out of the Holy Land. His Zeal attracted thousands of kids, most of them under 12 years old. About 30,000 children went on a “Holy Mission” to drive out “bad guys” from the Holy Land. The slimy merchants finally loaded the exhausted little crusaders into old, rotten ship for “free transport of the Holy Land”. Two of the ship sank, and all board drowned. The Kids on the other ships were sold into slavery.

Thus between 1095- 1270 there were Eight Crusades (“Holy War”). In a boarder sense all the wars between the Muslim power and the Christian power of Eastern Europe were considered Crusades. The Reconquista of Spain was considered a Crusade. (Above all When the British occupied Jerusalem, in 1917, which has been just vacated by the Ottomans, they declared it as the end of Crusades.)

This hatred does not end here it continued in the minds of the westerners even in 20th century, Jeremy Johns, in his book “Christianity and Islam” in John McManners, edition 1990, in page 194 he states In 1920, when the French army entered Damascus, their commander marched directly to Saladin’s tomb and declared, famously: “Nous revoila, Saladin”- “We’re back!” or “here We are again”.
Christian Dilemma
All the military actions against Muslims didn’t restrict Islam from spreading, because Islam triumphed every time when these western forces tried to wipe out Islam from this world. The Christians were in quagmire, they really needed to stumble the rise of Islam, as the Christians very well know that Islam is the only religion that could overcome Christianity and ultimately put an end to it. The rise of Islam will be downfall of Christianity. The Military action against Muslims is not always possible, they required to tackle Islam intellectually, to defeat Islam intellectually for this the Christians adopted, experimented various methodologies to discredit Islam and to win over Muslims to Christianity by converting them.




The distortion of Islam was necessary to cease people from accepting Islam and second Missionaries should work on Muslims to convert them to Christianity.

Missionaries and their Methodologies

The military response from Christianity in form of crusades didn’t yield the fruit for the Christians so they adopted to attack Islam by systematic distortion of Islam. For this goal to attain Islam had to be discredited. The easiest way to do this was through lies, false propaganda, and misrepresentation. The denomination prepared the European masses for the Crusades. If we examine the early literature a number of themes emerge.

The Early Christian writers focused their attack on the character of the Prophet (pbuh). The Qur’an and the facts about the Prophet’s life were distorted to justify Christian arguments that he was not a divine messenger. The reason behind this attack was if Prophet’s character could be destroyed, the Qur’an would be proved a forgery. Books about Prophet (pbuh) are given titles like Demoniacus to reinforce this message. In most works he is described as a robber, adulterer, a murderer, a poor pagan who schemed himself into power, and maintained it by pretending revelation, spread it through violence. This early tendency continued and found its way into popular medieval literature.

Question Demands an Answer

Early Christian literature had to answer a difficult question. If Islam was so evil, why were so many people attracted to it? This is evident even today; its agreed upon unanimously that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, especially in the west, Europe etc. The argument given was that evil often triumphs.

“The underlying problem for the West is not Islamic fundamentalism. It is Islam…”
(Samuel Huntingdon, The Clash of civilizations).

Again, the Christians couldn’t give a fitting reply to Islam, in regards to restrict the growth of Islam. Now they had no choice then to depend upon the evangelizing the Muslims, baptizing the Muslims, Christianizing the Muslims. The plan to destroy Islam was not only depended on evangelizing but Christians carried out political agenda to bring down Islam, which we won’t be dealing with in this article.

Let us now concentrate on Christian missionaries and there methodologies which they are adopting in their mission of converting Muslims.

The many different models or approaches to Muslim evangelism fall into five major categories:

1. Confrontational model
2. Traditional Evangelical model
3. Institutional model
4. Dialogical model
5. Contextualization model

The above categories are taken from :
Copyright © 1996 Evangelism and Missions Information Service. This article originally appeared in the April, 1996 issue of Evangelical Missions Quarterly (EMQ). And compiled by:
JOHN MARK TERRY is associate professor of missions and evangelism at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Louisville, Ky. His article is based on a paper given at the Southeast regional meeting of the Evangelical Missiological Society, March, 1995. He holds a Ph.D. in missions from South-western Baptist Theological Seminary, Fort Worth, Tex. and previously served as a missionary int he Philippines from 1976 to 1989.

To be continued.

 

[caller_to_truth]

1. Confrontational.

In the 18th and 19th centuries some missionaries—Henry Martyn, Karl Pfander, and St. Clair Tidall, for example—tried to win Muslims by public debate. They also preached in the bazaars and produced apologetic and polemical literature in English and the vernacular. Their approach was never very successful in terms of converts, and it often aroused increased Muslim antipathy toward Christianity.
This approach is not widely used today. First, most Muslim countries do not allow it. Those earlier missionaries often worked under the protection of colonial governments. Second, today’s missionaries prefer to emphasize the positive nature of the gospel, rather than expose objectionable elements in Islam. Finally, this method is not usually successful. Occasionally, a Muslim intellectual is convinced, but the debates do not move the masses.
Well, the above statement is from Christian himself so you can expect him to say that Christian defenders were not good enough for debating with Islamic scholars. As an example, when British ruled India, they poured in Missionaries like frogs in rainy season just only to convert the Muslims of India and there were various records of debates between Christian scholars and Muslim scholars and Christians had to pay heavy price for debating with Muslims. Rev. C.C.P. Fonder who had written a book in Urdu entitled “Meezanul Haq” the open intention of which was to cast doubts into the minds of the Muslims about the authenticity of the Qur’an and Islam. In response to it Maulana Rahmatullah Kairnavi wrote a book entitled “Izhar-ul-Haq” this was recognized as one of the most authoritive and objective studies of the Bible in 1864. In this book there are few debates mentioned which happened between Islamic and Christian scholars. Eventually, as a whole these debates didn’t get the result what the Christians expected.

2. Traditional evangelical model.

Samuel Zwemer (1867-1952), the "apostle to the Muslims," was the pioneer of this method. During his early years (1890-1916), he tended toward confrontation. In his books, The Disintegration of Islam (1915) and Mohammed or Christ (1916), he called for "radical displacement," a complete rejection of Islam by its adherents. However, later in his career he followed a more anthropological and Christocentric approach. He wrote empathically of Muslims as seekers after God, though he still maintained that only Jesus could satisfy their needs.1

Zwemer believed that evangelism must emphasize the incarnation, atonement, and mediation of Christ. The evangelist must call Muslims to repentance, to submission to Christ, and to involvement in the church. Zwemer in later years advocated witnessing to individuals and small groups. He advised his students to engage in friendship evangelism. He believed the human personality was the best bridge for conveying the gospel.2

Zwemer was a prolific writer and evangelicals have followed his example. They have produced innumerable books and tracts. They have distributed the Scriptures as widely as possible. They have propagated the gospel by means of radio and Bible correspondence courses.

The traditional approach has resulted in Western-style churches. Missionaries have told their converts to break with Islam and publicly identify with a church. Zwemer rejected the idea of allowing a convert to remain in Islam as long as possible so as to influence other Muslims.3

The main criticism against the traditional approach is simply that it has not been very effective. Critics also say it is too Western. But defenders say the approach is biblically sound. They see themselves as sowing seed that will bear fruit in time. They admit meagre results, but attribute this to political, historical, and social barriers beyond their control. They continue to sow faithfully, hoping for more favourable results.




3. Institutional model.

Several denominational missions have used this model. For example, Presbyterians and Congregationalists tried to win Muslims through hospitals, schools, and orphanages. The Foreign Mission Board of the Southern Baptist Convention has operated three hospitals in Arab countries, as well as schools and orphanages in Lebanon, Jordan, and Israel (for Palestinians).
The assumption is that demonstrations of love, compassion, and humility will break down the walls of prejudice. Some missiologists say we should send more teachers, doctors, nurses, and agriculturalists, because their deeds will speak louder than their words.4

The institutional model continues to be valid. Institutions are a good way to overcome prejudice and win a hearing for the gospel. However, institutions face difficult times. For one thing, governments are taking over many of their services. Also, inflation makes it hard to maintain them. Nevertheless, in some countries—Yemen, for example—institutions are the only Christian presence allowed.

4. Dialogical model.

The dialogical approach was pioneered by Temple Gairdner (1873-1928) and developed more fully by Kenneth Cragg. Dialogue is motivated by a sincere love that seeks to reconcile Muslims and Christians. It has four purposes:
(1) to learn what Muslims believe and to appreciate their beliefs in relation to their culture;
(2) to seek to establish both contact and rapport on the basis of sincere, honest friendship;
(3) to learn how to witness to them; and
(4) to bring them ultimately to salvation in Christ.5

This approach must not be confused with the syncretistic, universalistic dialogues sponsored by some ecumenical groups. The missionary does not surrender his convictions. Rather, he affirms them in a way that permits him to grow in his understanding of Muslims.

5. Contextualization model.

In this approach missionaries try by every possible way to become like Muslims so they can present the gospel in religious and cultural forms that Muslims can identify with. This model does not forget "the offense of the gospel," but seeks to avoid objectional factors.6

It calls for changes in missionary lifestyle, worship forms, theological terms, and strategy.

Proponents argue that missionary strategy for Muslim evangelism needs a major overhaul, including:
1. The missionary should make initial contact with Muslim leaders. Even if they do not become Christians, the missionary can reduce the possibility of overt opposition by befriending them.
2. People on the fringes of society should not be the focus of witness, but rather opinion leaders of the community.
3. Families, relatives, and groups of friends should be the initial conversion goal rather than individuals.
4. In the beginning only basic theological concepts should be presented. 7
5. We must allow adequate time for change to take place.
6. It is best not to encourage converts to repudiate Islam. Instead, it is better to allow them to "remain in the state in which (they were) called" (1 Cor. 7:20). This way they can influence their peers.
7. In many cases, baptism should be postponed, so converts will have a greater opportunity to win other Muslims. Confession of faith should be open, but baptism is seen as a political act in some countries.
8. Missionaries should study animistic practices among Muslims to discover areas of felt need. These may provide useful points of evangelistic contact.8

To be continued

 

[caller_to_truth]

Conclusion
The institutional model will have to be used in Arab countries where no other ministry is permitted. The dialogical model provides a way to approach Muslims in different settings. The church-oriented emphasis of the traditional model is biblical and should be stressed. The contextualization model has drawn on the insights of anthropology to suggest long-needed reforms that will lead to truly indigenous churches.
I have tried to incorporate elements from all the models, bearing in mind that Muslims vary culturally from place to place. One strategy does not fit all situations. These are some general rules that should characterize a strategy to evangelize Muslims.
1. Any model must be church-oriented. As Kenneth Cragg said, "No man comes into a churchless Christ." 9 However, the church must be contextualized. Any model that does not bring new converts into a nurturing church is sure to fail.
2. The successful model will emphasize worship. Worship should be designed to meet the needs of the people. The forms will be different in Africa and Asia, but here again contextualization is the key.
3. Missionaries should use certain passages from the Koran as a springboard for explaining the gospel. They should feel free to use the names Allah and Isa (Jesus).
4. Missionaries in Muslim countries will have to adjust their lifestyles for the sake of the gospel. Mission agencies would do well to give candidates special tests to see if they are psychologically fit for service among Muslims.
5. New missionaries should be given several years to study the language and culture of their assigned country, as well as Islam itself. Intensive preparation and reasonable expectations will reduce missionary dropouts and enhance productivity.
6. Missionaries need to adapt their preaching to the culture of their people. Storytelling may well be more effective than sermons.
7. We should increase our use of the media. Radio, television, and literature could all be used more fully. Programming and writing must be contextualized. Drama would be more effective than the traditional hymn and sermon format.
8. Above all, whatever model we use, it must be characterized by love and prayer for Muslims. A Muslim convert wrote: It is stimulating to think that cases of conversion through sheer reasoning between dogmas of two religions are very rare, perhaps nonexistent. In cases of conversion where prosperity, social status, security, vengeance against native society, emotional experimentation and the like are not the motives, the change of faith is motivated perhaps more frequently by love for charming virtues, of a magnetic person, or love for a group of lovable associates, than by cold religious arithmetic.10


PLANS TO CON THE MUSLIMS:
CHURCH PLANTING IN THE ME & IDENTITY OF MUSLIM CONVERTS By David Zeidan
In the Middle East we are often dealing not with a "normal" situation, but with an emergency situation where believers from Muslim background can expect severe persecution and even death. Our choices must be governed by the relevant situation in the country we are working in.
POSSIBLE MODELS IN MUSLIM LANDS
1. Integrate fully with the local Evangelical Christian minority (if one exists) and its churches. This means a break with the Muslim community and becoming a minority (Muslim believers), within a minority (Evangelicals), within a recognised (nominal Christian) minority. In very Islamic societies, or where fundamentalists are strong, this means persecution as apostates and even death - or emigration. This option usually results in a break with family and society.
In a mainly secular state like Turkey and Israel this option might work. The danger is that these states are coming under increasing religious, even fundamentalist, pressures and may have to reach an accommodation with their religious constituencies that always comes at the expense of the Muslim (or Jewish) believers.
2. Establish Muslim fellowship groups independent of Evangelical Christians, yet in visible fellowship with them. Worship is partly contextualised, but much interaction with local and foreign Christians occurs. This option might work well in a fairly secularised though nominally Muslim state (Syria, Iraq?).
3. Sufi-type Muslim "followers of Jesus" fellowships remaining in their local contexts yet forming closed groups. Meet in designated zawiyas (can be private homes, but recognized as a Sufi meeting place); have their own Sheikhs (elder, pastor); develop their own worship forms based on Sufi "dhikr", "hadra" and "sama`" models. They remain within their culture and society yet operate as a visibly separate group. This option might be able to function in more Islamically oriented states with a Sufi tradition (Egypt, Sudan, the Maghreb, also Turkey, Iran, etc.).
4. Isma'ili-type secret small-cell groups of Muslim believers who do not publicly profess their faith, but keep it as a secret to be divulged only to a very restricted group of trusted relatives and friends. They evangelise secretly, meet secretly, practise taqiya, and develop their own secret recognition patterns. Each believer is introduced only to one or two other believers. This option might be suitable for extremely Islamic societies (Saudi Arabia).

Missionaries of the 90's Target Muslims
By Masood Cajee
Mike and Cindy Bowen of LaGrange, Georgia first went to Malaysia in 1987, on a short-term outreach for the PentecostalHolinessChurch. According to the Bowens, it was on the plane home that God confirmed His call to them.
"We both knew that God would eventually bring us back home to Malaysia to teach and preach to the Malay people who haven't heard," says Cindy Bowen, of her husband-and-wife team.
This year, the Bowens will leave their home in Georgia and commit full time to proselytise in Malaysia's capital city, Kuala Lumpur. They have been preparing nearly ten years for this opportunity. Since their first trip to Malaysia, Mike got a bachelor's degree in Missions and Evangelism from the South-western Assembly of God College in Waxahachee, Texas; Cindy majored in Christian Education. They will join an estimated contingent of 559 Christian missionaries (370 Catholic, 189 Protestant) in Malaysia.
'The Bowens plan to help establish two Pentecostal Holiness churches in Kuala Lumpur by training the pastors and bringing forth leaders to start plant more churches in this emerging Southeast Asian Muslim-majority nation of 19 million. A spokesperson for the National Evangelical Fellowship of Malaysia claims that 600 Christian churches have started there since 1992. Evangelical Christians like the Bowens tout Muslims as the largest block of unreached peoples in the world. Having scored remarkable successes among Catholics in Latin America, notably in Brazil, and spurred by the fall of the Soviet Union, missionaries in the 1990s regard Muslims as a "final frontier" for evangelism. Their strategies call for ''creative access, cultural sensitivity, and church-planting in the 10/40 Window." The 10/40 Window is evangelical-speak for the rectangle with boundaries of latitudes 10 and 40 degrees north of the equator; encompassing most of the Muslim World.
Muslim countries especially targeted are the newly independent states in Central Asia - particularly Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan, and the Southeast Asian tigers, Malaysia and Indonesia. Nevertheless, Frontiers and other Christian groups strive to place missionaries throughout the tough "10/40 Window." Most Muslim countries remain closed, either because of the strong linkage between ethnic and religious identity amongst Muslims, or because of heavy restrictions on proselytization. This restricted access has led U.S. Christian mission groups such as Frontiers to lobby Congress on the issue of "the persecuted Church" in Muslim countries. These lobbying efforts have spurred the creation of a US State Department Commission on Religious Freedom, albeit one whose original stress on persecuted Christians has been slightly diluted. The Commission will now include representatives from multiple denominations and faiths, including Dr. Laila AlMarayati of the Muslim Womens League.
The "persecuted Church" primarily within the 10/40 Window has been a rallying point and foreign policy crusade for the Religious Right in their quest to gain wider access to the untapped millions of non-Christians within the Window. Frontiers, a mission group devoted completely to converting Muslims, boasts that "through creative approaches, patient sowing, and fearless proclamation, more Muslims have come to Christ in the last 25 years than in the previous 1400 years combined!" The Mesa, Arizona-based group claims to have 500 missionaries in 30 countries, or about 20% of all North American Protestant missionaries serving among Muslims. Frontiers seeks missionaries for the 90's with the motto: "Muslims. It's their turn. It's all we do. Whatever it takes." From Bosnia to Bangladesh, American missionaries apparently have been doing whatever it takes to penetrate often resistant and hostile Muslim target countries. Two popular missionary approaches to Muslim countries involves setting up business ventures or non-profit relief and NGO work.
Christian relief groups have made inroads in places like Somalia (which is 99% Muslim) by taking advantage of humanitarian crises like the famine in 1992 that precipitated U.S. intervention. Some missionaries reportedly even hook up with the CIA, blurring religious and political goals. The Washington Post revealed February, 22 that CIA officials admitted a "controversial loophole" exists that permits the agency to "employ clerics and missionaries for clandestine work overseas. By far; however; the most popular long-term method has been to establish front export businesses, a growing strategy used by missionaries to gain access into a target country. Often, missionaries start branch offices of American companies overseas or enter as consultants. Cindy Bowen speaks proudly of her husband's creative access to Malaysia, which capitalised on his landscaping business in LaGrange, located 6O miles Southwest of Atlanta.
To be continued

 

[Scsgirl]

Personaly I think people are to hard on muslims recently Me and my youthgroup were going on a trip and one of the leaders worked with this muslim couple and they had a house that was unocupied and the ofered to let us stay to save on a hotel and we were going to but most of the parents said that did not want there child in the house of a muslim! hate the sin not the sinner how are we going to convert muslims if we wont even get close enough to talk to them!

 

[OrthodoxServant86]

Scsgirl,

You are right in saying that it is wrong to insult or act contemptuously towards any human being, since this is indeed not the message of Christ. The problem arises when people like this Caller character continuously instigate and provoke fighting between our religions to try and drill his point of view into all others, pasting large segments of pre-packaged polemic (cf. above) that is futile to even try to respond to since it will inevitably lead to a deliberate misinterpretation on his part, followed by sardonic comments and more pasted polemic.

I would encourage you to start dialogue and fruitful conversation with Muslims on the topic of Islam, because so far this has not happened in this forum, largely because it is polluted with the methods and doctrines of people like Caller. Their ways simply lend more and more reasons to lead people to despise the Islamic religion/philosophy.

Forgive me if I have insulted anyone, this is not my intent. I will now withdraw from all discussion involving Christians and Muslims spewing diatribe at each other, since I do not like what becomes of all of us when we do so.

In peace,

-Justin

 

[AudioArtist]

Ok, enough on the Crusades already. All Christians realise they were an atrocity of the highest order-those so called "Christians" did some truly sick things.

However, that was a very long time ago. I'm studying the Crusades in history at the moment; a lot of the worst bloodshed was due to the greed of individual leaders and the savage peasant armies that were under their control.

 

[S Walch]

Please tell me caller - was it all christian denominations that took part in the Crusades, or just one?

 

[Montalban]

you should watch the move "The Message", I am talking about the beginning of Islam... I am talking about the age when Muslims were not even allowed to self defence and how Muslims were treated during those days.

What I am trying to say is the initial start is not Muslims.

I have seen the film. It was released here as "Muhammad: Messenger of God". It was part of my first steps towards Islam (though I never eventually converted, or 'reverted' as you might term it)

It is why there are words of 'peace' in the Koran. When Muhammad was in his "Mecca period" that is, a minority, he called for peace, tolerance and so forth. As he fled to Medina and grew in power, his verses became more aggressive. Until, finally he called for war against non-believers. It is why Muslims can approach Christians and misinform them, by showing them the passages of the Koran that deal with peace. Most people you deal with in such a way are unaware of the history of the passages, and don't realise that more bellicose passages were 'revealed later on.

Christians endured 300 years of the persecution you speak of, something Muhammad couldn't cope with for even half a life-time. And yet we as a religion thrived through love.

Your faith spread by the sword and you became the oligarchy of large lands of non-Muslims where in you established 'protection' over your populations, including imposing severe discriminatory laws (such as no Muslim could be convicted by the testimony of a non-Muslim; restrictions on the building of churches; making Christians and Jews wear special clothes (the Nazis learnt that one from you) and so forth), and extra taxes just for being non-Muslim.

With four wives and numerous concubines you could then 'out breed' non-Muslim populations.

You might want to read "The Decline of Eastern Christianity under Islam: From Jihad to Dhimmitude" by Bat Ye'or

 

[Montalban]

Please tell me caller - was it all christian denominations that took part in the Crusades, or just one?

The Roman Empire (which you would call the Byzantine Empire) was under seige by the Turks ever since the mid-1000's. They appealed for help from fellow Christains (albeit schismatics; the Roman Catholics of western Europe). This was made a 'religious enterprise' by Pope Urban II who had thus hoped to secure more secular power.

The idea of 'fighting holy orders' (such as the Knights Templar) was abhorrent to the eastern Christians. However violence begets violence and Islam had started with this tool... in fact they call all Muslims to jihad (struggle).

The Crusaders did apply brutal means, but it must be remembered to, that the lands they attacked had once been part of the Christian world. caller_to_truth simply ignores this major point.

Imagine someone steals your house and you steal it back and they go to the press saying you stole their house! You apologise for doing something 'wrong' (as two wrongs don't make a right), but they continue to hound you for this and never acknowledge themselves what they did in the first place.

It happens all the time on various scales... Recently in Spain the small Muslim community there has made complaints about not being able to access a church (I believe it's in Cordoba), that was once a mosque. What they don't tell you is that before it was a mosque, it was, guess what... a church!

The current Pope has come out and admitted and apologised for the errors of the crusades. But Moslems don't apologise for their own crusades that started it all off, in fact they can't because it is their mission to make the world Islamic, whether it's done by sword or stealth.