Why do most other believers seem to hate OECs so much?

[Lebesgue]

Hi, I am new on here. I am an OEC(Old Earth Creationist) and have been most of my life.

I denounce evolution in no uncertain terms, there is NO WAY we came from apes, were were created by G-d in His Image just like the Bible says.

I believe the Bible is inerrant but I also believe(as does Dr. Hugh Ross please see his Reasons to Believe) website, that each of the 6 creation days could very well have been long periods. The word "yom" in the original Hebrew can mean "age" rather than "day".

I believe G-d began creation with the Big Bang 14-15 billion years ago and the earth is 4.5 billion years old and G-d created it in the manner that science has found it to have been formed.

It seems like my view is very much in the minority among believers and I have found myself even treated like a "pariah" at times for being an OEC.
I used to be a Seventh Day Adventist, and being a YEC is practically a test of fellowship as their false prophet Ellen White had a "hallucination" where she saw G-d doing the creation and she stated the earth is only 6,000 years old and anyone who believes otherwise is among "the worst of infidels". I was nearly disfellowshipped by the SDA church for being an OEC(I left soon after that because I saw many doctrinal errors in their Theology). I was accused of not believing in G-d, not believing in the Bible and one of the Elders in the church would even say "Big Bang" and laugh at me everytime he saw me for a while. I have forgiven them and we are still friends even though I left the church and this has pretty much blown over as I have learned to keep my mouth shut.

Then on another Internet forum, I was bullied and abused so badly be some YECs, called names like "sorcerer", "apostate", "Darwinista", etc. that I don't post on their so much. It is telling that the people on their that treated me and the very few other OECs kindly were nonbelivers.

My religious beliefs are now Messianic Judaism, and I have found other OECs at my MJ synagogue and OECism is tolerated there unlike it was at the SDA church.

So how do you guys feel about OECs? Are there any other OECs one here?

I hope OECs are treated more kindly on here than the other forum I have experience with.

G-d Bless You ALL.

Shalom,

Lebesgue

 

[sbvera13]

For us scientifically minded folks, OEC is only a little better than YEC. Instead of rejecting nearly every branch of physical science ever studied in the last 200 years (geology, geography, astronomy, biology, physics, plus the social onse like linguistics and population geography), you reject only one (biology). So be prepared to be assaulted by facts around here, since information overload is the preferred form of attack. I'll be nice and back off though

As for YEC's, study the movement and it becomes clear that they exercise a kind of tribal groupthink. "If you're like us your good, if you're not like us you're bad." For example, they claim to follow the Bible innerantly, but do not. I've yet to meet a YEC Christian who refuses to eat shellfish because it's prohibited by God, even though said prohibition is only pages away from the prohibition against homosexuality. Homosexuality on the other hand, they will be quite vehement about. How do they get away with picking and choosing like that? The answer is they follow the group and not the scripture. So when you go against the group, they're going to come down on you whether you have scriptural support or not.

 

[Tomk80]

Just one quick question, what is your reaction towards theistic (Christian) evolutionists?

 

[MoonLancer]

OEC's are odd ones. You are a rare breed. Can you explain why you think the world is old, but given imperfect replicators and natural pressures in nature selecting the advantages mutations through favoring one creatures ability to survive over another, how could evolution could not have happened?

ps... [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] happened to my cool guy with a paint brush?

 

[Lebesgue]

Just one quick question, what is your reaction towards theistic (Christian) evolutionists?

I accept theistic evolutionists as fellow believers. I don't agree with them, but I don't judge them.

Shalom,

Lebesgue

 

[Lebesgue]

For us scientifically minded folks, OEC is only a little better than YEC. Instead of rejecting nearly every branch of physical science ever studied in the last 200 years (geology, geography, astronomy, biology, physics, plus the social onse like linguistics and population geography), you reject only one (biology). So be prepared to be assaulted by facts around here, since information overload is the preferred form of attack. I'll be nice and back off though

As for YEC's, study the movement and it becomes clear that they exercise a kind of tribal groupthink. "If you're like us your good, if you're not like us you're bad." For example, they claim to follow the Bible innerantly, but do not. I've yet to meet a YEC Christian who refuses to eat shellfish because it's prohibited by God, even though said prohibition is only pages away from the prohibition against homosexuality. Homosexuality on the other hand, they will be quite vehement about. How do they get away with picking and choosing like that? The answer is they follow the group and not the scripture. So when you go against the group, they're going to come down on you whether you have scriptural support or not.

I've noticed that about some YEC Christians, it's kind of they believe the Bible to be inerrant but keep an a-la-carte Bible.

As a Messianic believer, I keep the WHOLE Bible. I don't eat shellfish or pork, I keep the Jewish feasts, etc. I don't do this to be saved but because I am saved and I am not going to judge Christians who don't keep these things.

 

[Lebesgue]

OEC's are odd ones. You are a rare breed. Can you explain why you think the world is old, but given imperfect replicators and natural pressures in nature selecting the advantages mutations through favoring one creatures ability to survive over another, how could evolution could not have happened?

ps... [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] happened to my cool guy with a paint brush?

I am not going to say it could not have happened I just don't think it did.
I would concede the possibility of some amount of "evolution" among the beasts, but we were CREATED by G-d, SPECIAL and in His Image.

 

[sbvera13]

The position of the Catholic Church is that it doesn't matter one whit how the body of man was created, or evolved or whatnot- it is the human soul that was created and exists in the image of God. I know you're not catholic, but doesn't that satisfy scripture also?

 

[MoonLancer]

so you think scientifically it is inside the realm of possibility, but you don't think it happened anyway? What is your view on the dover trial?

 

[Lebesgue]

The position of the Catholic Church is that it doesn't matter one whit how the body of man was created, or evolved or whatnot- it is the human soul that was created and exists in the image of God. I know you're not catholic, but doesn't that satisfy scripture also?

G-d IS a spirit and it is our soul that is what makes us in His image.

 

[Lebesgue]

so you think scientifically it is inside the realm of possibility, but you don't think it happened anyway? What is your view on the dover trial?

evoultion hasn't been proven. It takes faith to accept evolution just as it does to accept creation. The reason why I am an OEC is that there is overwhelming evidence(I would call it scientific fact) that the earth and universe are billions of years old.

As for the Dover Trial, I agree. Religion and state should be kept seperate. As evolution is the accepted scientific theory, it is taught in science class. It is up to the parents to tell there kids the alternative or send them to religious schools if they don't want them taught evolution.

I would rather see them taught evolution than YECism in the schools though, as YECism does not accept any of science.

 

[sbvera13]

That's what I thought too. What makes it necessary to deny 90% of all scientific disciplines then in order to believe? I mean if scripture can apply to the soul alone, why all the song and dance about evolution? Of course, YEC's are far worse at it. I guess its a rhetorical question and you don't have to answer. It's the YECs that really bug me because they try to lobby their nonsense into the government.

 

[sbvera13]

Ah, I see. I suggest you make an effort to educate youself then, because evolution has been proven, at least beyond any reasonable doubt (science does not deal in 100% proofs after all). Prepare for an assault of information, becasue you just said the magic words.

I suggest starting here, an excellent public resource from UC Berkeley. http://evolution.berkeley.edu/

 

[Lebesgue]

That's what I thought too. What makes it necessary to deny 90% of all scientific disciplines then in order to believe? I mean if scripture can apply to the soul alone, why all the song and dance about evolution? Of course, YEC's are far worse at it. I guess its a rhetorical question and you don't have to answer. It's the YECs that really bug me because they try to lobby their nonsense into the government.

One thing I have noticed as at least evolutionists are kindly in disagreeing with us OECs. I am fine with that. Disagree with me, debate me, if you will, but please be kind and civil.

But...it has been my experience that some YECs are nasty and hateful towards OECs. Why???

Shalom,

Lebesgue

 

[sbvera13]

I try to be polite to everyone, and when YEC's get nasty I just back out of the conversation. Other's dont though, and I admit it's fun to watch the spectacle I think YEC's are nasty to everyone thats not like them, at least that's what I've observed. I can't explain why

 

[Tomk80]

I am not going to say it could not have happened I just don't think it did.
I would concede the possibility of some amount of "evolution" among the beasts, but we were CREATED by G-d, SPECIAL and in His Image.

What do you mean with "in his image"?

 

[Assyrian]

Hi, I am new on here. I am an OEC(Old Earth Creationist) and have been most of my life.

I denounce evolution in no uncertain terms, there is NO WAY we came from apes, were were created by G-d in His Image just like the Bible says.

I believe the Bible is inerrant but I also believe(as does Dr. Hugh Ross please see his Reasons to Believe) website, that each of the 6 creation days could very well have been long periods. The word "yom" in the original Hebrew can mean "age" rather than "day".

Hi Lebesgue, sorry to hear the rough time you had with you former church, glad to hear you have come through it with a forgiving gracious heart.

If you accept yom can have a figurative meaning in scripture, which it does, what about the idea of God being a potter and making people from clay? That is a very common biblical metaphor too. Is there any reason the creation of Adam was not described metaphorical, and the way God actually made the human race is what science describes?

After all we know a lot about human reproduction and the development of the foetus in its mother womb, should that give us problems with Psalm 139?
Psalm 139:13 For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb.
14 I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth.

 

[MoonLancer]

As for the Dover Trial, I agree. Religion and state should be kept seperate. As evolution is the accepted scientific theory, it is taught in science class. It is up to the parents to tell there kids the alternative or send them to religious schools if they don't want them taught evolution.

I really don't like meddling with creationists unless they like to force creation into science class were it has no scientific evidence or true theories or principles. so your cool in my book.

 

[Dysnomia]

I've never met an OEC before, pleased to meet you o/

Actually, I'm a chemist and believe in the big bang, evolution, AND the divine. I don't see evolution as incompatable with my religion, but more along the lines of the gods willed there to be competition and through that competition (and a little divine help, such as that first idea that maybe fire is good, lol) homo sapiens sapiens came to exist. Sort of intelligent design, but still mostly hands-off, and if we came to know the gods as centaurs (should evolution have taken us that way) the gods wouldn't have cared less, because it's our hearts and minds they seek. After all, the Christian god doesn't care if someone is lame or disfigured, just that their heart is true.

 

[Skaloop]

evoultion hasn't been proven. It takes faith to accept evolution just as it does to accept creation. The reason why I am an OEC is that there is overwhelming evidence(I would call it scientific fact) that the earth and universe are billions of years old.

Evolution has more evidence for it than gravity does, in terms of how it works.

Evolution is an observed fact, and not at all a question of faith.