why do jews reject jesus?

[Hank77]

Yep, a bunch of corrupt officials and a corrupt king killed that Zechariah

Why am I, or any Jews who aren't those officials who stoned him or the king who ordered it, implicated in that death?

You shouldn't be. Neither should all the Jews who were living at that time.
That king was punished because he didn't remember a kindness done to him, but the whole nation was punished because most of them did not listen to the prophet and continued to disobey God.

How is it fair to say that "the Jews" in general killed the Prophets?

Again, it's not and that is not what Jesus said either.

 

[LoAmmi]

You shouldn't be. Neither should all the Jews who were living at that time.
That king was punished because he didn't remember a kindness done to him, but the whole nation was punished because most of them did not listen to the prophet and continued to disobey God.

Again, it's not and that is not what Jesus said either.

Perhaps not, but why is it being brought up in this thread then? The intention of its use on the Jews participating in this thread is clear. "How can we expect these people to accept Jesus if they killed their prophets and Jesus?" It's being used as a hammer here.

 

[Goatee]

You don't have a long, sad history of being oppressed by people calling you Christ-killer. Having the leader of Church at the time lock you in ghettos and deprive you of the ability to work. Of having to debate priests in our own synagogues and then having Talmuds burned and thrown out. It's a bit more than taking it personally with all that history. And, even will all that, I don't see you as part of it. I don't see anybody on this forum as part of it. But the charge that I or we killed prophets and Jesus, that one is a bit touchy. It is probably why you see Robban react the way he has.

Nobody is saying 'YOU' killed anybody! See, you are taking it personally!

Popes of the past murdered many. As a Catholic i am not taking that personally!!

You shouldn't feel the way you do as it is not personal. We all have history.

 

[Goatee]

Perhaps not, but why is it being brought up in this thread then? The intention of its use on the Jews participating in this thread is clear. "How can we expect these people to accept Jesus if they killed their prophets and Jesus?" It's being used as a hammer here.

You are taking it all personally which is wrong! I don't hate Jews or anybody. Its just a discussion!

 

[LoAmmi]

Nobody is saying 'YOU' killed anybody! See, you are taking it personally!

Popes of the past murdered many. As a Catholic i am not taking that personally!!

You shouldn't feel the way you do as it is not personal. We all have history.

Why is it being brought up in this thread then in relation to modern day Jews? In relation to me and Robban? Because I can't see why it would matter unless people were trying to implicate us. Otherwise it would just be talking about some people 2000 years ago that did something.

 

[Goatee]

Why is it being brought up in this thread then in relation to modern day Jews? In relation to me and Robban? Because I can't see why it would matter unless people were trying to implicate us. Otherwise it would just be talking about some people 2000 years ago that did something.

Nobody has mentioned modern day jews! Where has anyone stated that it is the fault etc of any modern day Jews?

 

[LoAmmi]

Nobody has mentioned modern day jews! Where has anyone stated that it is the fault etc of any modern day Jews?

The thread is why do Jews reject Jesus. It's about modern day Jews. Do isn't past tense. So when that passage keeps getting pulled out, what is it implying?

 

[Goatee]

The thread is why do Jews reject Jesus. It's about modern day Jews. Do isn't past tense. So when that passage keeps getting pulled out, what is it implying?

Its a simple question!! Nobody is accusing 'YOU' of anything!! I certainly am not

 

[LoAmmi]

Its a simple question!! Nobody is accusing 'YOU' of anything!! I certainly am not

A simple question that's been answered several times on this thread. On page one for that matter. The Messianic prophecies were not fulfilled. That's the whole argument. Be sure to tip your waiters.

 

[Goatee]

A simple question that's been answered several times on this thread. On page one for that matter. The Messianic prophecies were not fulfilled. That's the whole argument. Be sure to tip your waiters.

Not fulfilled in your beliefs!

 

[Goatee]

Be sure to tip your waiters.

What do you mean by that?

 

[LoAmmi]

Not fulfilled in your beliefs!

Not fulfilled by looking at the text and applying it. I posted this last year on this thread.

Here are some of the prophecies that are currently unfulfilled. There are others but I'll hit the big ones that we all can easily recognize have not happened.

Worship of HaShem alone; all idols destroyed. Isaiah 2:11-17

The knowledge of HaShem will cover the world as the water covers the sea. Isaiah 11:9

All of the Jewish people will live in Israel. Isaiah 11:12

There will be universal peace. Isaiah 2:4 (and many other places)


These things have not happened. There cannot be The Messiah until these things happen from a Jewish point of view. Christians tell me that Jesus is coming back to do these things. Until he does, I will not recognize him as The Messiah.



Those are things in the text that are associated with the Messiah. These are very clearly not complete. Objectively not complete. It isn't just my belief.

 

[LoAmmi]

What do you mean by that?

It's an old comedy routine thing. "I'll be here all week, be sure to tip your waitress" or whatever. or "try the veal".

 

[Hawkins]

Not fulfilled by looking at the text and applying it. I posted this last year on this thread.

Here are some of the prophecies that are currently unfulfilled. There are others but I'll hit the big ones that we all can easily recognize have not happened.

Worship of HaShem alone; all idols destroyed. Isaiah 2:11-17

The knowledge of HaShem will cover the world as the water covers the sea. Isaiah 11:9

All of the Jewish people will live in Israel. Isaiah 11:12

There will be universal peace. Isaiah 2:4 (and many other places)


These things have not happened. There cannot be The Messiah until these things happen from a Jewish point of view. Christians tell me that Jesus is coming back to do these things. Until he does, I will not recognize him as The Messiah.



Those are things in the text that are associated with the Messiah. These are very clearly not complete. Objectively not complete. It isn't just my belief.

Modern Messianic concept (prophecies) was re-developed by rabbis after AD 70. It may not be the same as at Jesus time.

 

[LoAmmi]

Modern Messianic concept was re-developed by rabbis after AD 70. It may not be the same as at Jesus time.

So the rabbis changed the text of Isaiah after 70 CE and the Christians decided to change their copies as well to be good sports? Because I quoted Isaiah, not the Talmud or any rabbis.

 

[Hawkins]

So the rabbis changed the text of Isaiah after 70 CE and the Christians decided to change their copies as well to be good sports? Because I quoted Isaiah, not the Talmud or any rabbis.

No, how do you reckon that it's a messianic prophecy?

Base on the the modern messianic concept but nothing else! That's the point.

 

[LoAmmi]

No, how do you reckon that it's a messianic prophecy?

How do I reckon that the texts of Isaiah that talk about concepts such as Universal Peace and universal knowledge of G-d are Messianic prophecies?

 

[Hawkins]

How do I reckon that the texts of Isaiah that talk about concepts such as Universal Peace and universal knowledge of G-d are Messianic prophecies?

It's you who said that it's an unfulfilled prophecy. My question is how do you know that it's a prophecy at all.

 

[LoAmmi]

It's you who said that it's an unfulfilled prophecy. My question is how do you know that it's a prophecy at all.

Because it's talking about what will happen in the future when all nations stream to the mountain of the Lord and beat their swords into plowshares. That quite obviously hasn't happened.

 

[Hawkins]

Because it's talking about what will happen in the future when all nations stream to the mountain of the Lord and beat their swords into plowshares. That quite obviously hasn't happened.

That remains your own interpretation and what's that to do with the messiah anyway?