Why do intellectually superior humans have around 7,000 distinct languages?

[dad]

They? Who is 'they'?
You're coming across as incredibly desperate to avoid admitting that you don't have any evidence that the tower of Babel existed.

Please tell us this is not new to you!?

 

[dad]

And where was the tower of Babel located in all of that?

Well, who really knows? Does it matter? Long as you admit that there was massive land mass movements it could be many places near there, deep under!

Of course we could guess..

I guessed that the garden of Eden was in or near modern Israel I also guessed that the ark landed not so far from Israel in the pre uplifted mountains of Ararat! You see if the big rapid plate movements were after the flood, then we could have the mounts of Ararat a LOT close to Israel. For example, the dead sea area is around plates that came together, if I recall! I suspect that the ark landed close enough to Israel, so that the doves could fly to the mount of Olives in something like 3 or 3 1/2 days or less!!

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Please tell us this is not new to you!?

Continental drift is not new to me.
The idea that the Tower of Babel was built on a fault line/drift line and then subsequently disappeared certainly is.
But, as I said, all this does is smack of desperation on your part to avoid providing evidence for the tower existing.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Well, who really knows? Does it matter? Long as you admit that there was massive land mass movements it could be many places near there, deep under!

Actually, is does matter, because if the tower is proven to not exist as per the Bible and is proven to not have used a single proto-language that suddenly became all languages, then your OP is completely and utterly bunk.

 

[dad]

Continental drift is not new to me.
The idea that the Tower of Babel was built on a fault line/drift line and then subsequently disappeared certainly is.
But, as I said, all this does is smack of desperation on your part to avoid providing evidence for the tower existing.

Hey, not just some fault line, but whole areas were plowed under and uplifted on this planet!

 

[dad]

Actually, is does matter, because if the tower is proven to not exist as per the Bible and is proven to not have used a single proto-language that suddenly became all languages, then your OP is completely and utterly bunk.

Impossible to prove it never existed! relax.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Hey, not just some fault line, but whole areas were plowed under and uplifted on this planet!

Impossible to prove it never existed! relax.

So you don't have any evidence whatsoever that the Tower of Babel existed, but you adamantly cling to the idea that it did exist for zero reason other than the Bible says it did.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Infinite is defined as boundless, in other words the infinite cannot be measured.

How can finite calculations reach an infinite result?

A calculation isn't a measurement. Mathematics can give all kinds of unexpected results, e.g. infinite series that sum to a finite value.

But calculations that produce infinities generally involve infinite limits, which this site explains better than I can - and with worked examples.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Universe's Expansion Rate Is Different Depending on Where You Look (space.com)

Our universe's rate of expansion keeps getting stranger. New data continues to show a discrepancy in how fast the universe expands in nearby realms and more distant locations.

The study's researchers said this "tension" could mean we need to revise our understanding of the physics structuring the universe, which could include exotic elements such as dark matter and dark energy.

New measurements from the Hubble Space Telescope and the Gaia space telescope together showed that the rate of expansion nearby is 73.5 kilometers (45.6 miles) per second per megaparsec. This means that for every 3.3 million light-years a galaxy is farther away from Earth, it appears to move 73.5 kilometers per second faster.

But the more distant background universe, according to previous measurements from the Planck telescope, is moving somewhat slower at 67 kilometers (41.6 miles) per second per megaparsec.

In fact, the discrepancy between the two measurements keeps getting wider as the researchers refine their work. The new data shows a wider gap between the measurements that is about four times the size of their combined uncertainty — a value that reflects their level of confidence in the results — team members said in a statement.

"At this point, clearly it's not simply some gross error in any one measurement," lead author Adam Riess, a senior member of the science staff at the Space Telescope Science Institute (STScI) in Baltimore, which manages Hubble operations, said in the statement.

"It's as though you predicted how tall a child would become from a growth chart, and then found the adult he or she became greatly exceeded the prediction. We are very perplexed," added Riess, who is also an astronomy and physics professor at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore.

As it stands, that doesn't appear to significantly affect the evidence for the big bang, or its predictions. It suggests that the cosmological constant needs reworking. But without references or citations, I can't comment further.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Impossible to prove it never existed! relax.

You missed out the period after "prove".

 

[Astrophile]

Infinite is defined as boundless, in other words the infinite cannot be measured.

How can finite calculations reach an infinite result?

Simple; you divide a finite quantity by zero. However, the singularity at the origin of the universe is a mathematical one, not a physical singularity.

The existence of a mathematical singularity means that scientists' current knowledge of the physical laws governing the behaviour of matter breaks down before the Planck time, about 10^-43 seconds after the origin (time zero). It does not mean that the temperature, pressure and density of matter were actually infinite. The fact that present theories break down before the Planck time doesn't invalidate cosmological theory after the Planck time; the present evidence that at that time the universe was in a high-temperature, high-pressure state, and that hydrogen, deuterium, helium-3, helium-4 and lithium-7 were produced in the first few minutes after time zero, is still valid.

What has this got to do with human languages?

 

[Astrophile]

So you don't have any evidence whatsoever that the Tower of Babel existed, but you adamantly cling to the idea that it did exist for zero reason other than the Bible says it did.

My own idea about the story of the Tower of Babel is that it was the response of the exiled Israelites to their first experience of the great city of Babylon; I emphasise that this is only a piece of speculation.

At the time of Nebuchadnezzar Babylon was the largest city in the world, a sort of Baby London, with a population of about half a million. This was probably more than ten times the total population of Judea and at least a hundred time the population of Jerusalem. To an Israelite such a city would have been beyond their imagination; the huge buildings, the great ziggurats, like artificial mountains, that seemed to reach almost to the sky, and wealth beyond the dreams of Solomon in all his glory. To the exiled Jews it would have seemed that these people could do anything and that nothing that they imagined would be beyond their power (Genesis 11:6).

However, as they learnt more, the Jews would have found out that, like all large towns and cities, Babylon contained different communities, different ethnic groups with different languages, with their inevitable disagreements and conflicts. Perhaps the Jews thought that God had divided the people of Babylon into different linguistic communities to prevent them from getting above themselves (particularly in building towers) and to ensure that they would not be able to do anything that they wished to. If so, the myth of the tower of Babel was an attempt to understand how a cosmopolitan city, a single unit that nonetheless consisted of diverse ethnic and linguistic groups, had come into existence.

 

[Astrophile]

Universe's Expansion Rate Is Different Depending on Where You Look (space.com)

Our universe's rate of expansion keeps getting stranger. New data continues to show a discrepancy in how fast the universe expands in nearby realms and more distant locations.

The study's researchers said this "tension" could mean we need to revise our understanding of the physics structuring the universe, which could include exotic elements such as dark matter and dark energy.

New measurements from the Hubble Space Telescope and the Gaia space telescope together showed that the rate of expansion nearby is 73.5 kilometers (45.6 miles) per second per megaparsec. This means that for every 3.3 million light-years a galaxy is farther away from Earth, it appears to move 73.5 kilometers per second faster.

But the more distant background universe, according to previous measurements from the Planck telescope, is moving somewhat slower at 67 kilometers (41.6 miles) per second per megaparsec.

In fact, the discrepancy between the two measurements keeps getting wider as the researchers refine their work. The new data shows a wider gap between the measurements that is about four times the size of their combined uncertainty — a value that reflects their level of confidence in the results — team members said in a statement.

"At this point, clearly it's not simply some gross error in any one measurement," lead author Adam Riess, a senior member of the science staff at the Space Telescope Science Institute (STScI) in Baltimore, which manages Hubble operations, said in the statement.

"It's as though you predicted how tall a child would become from a growth chart, and then found the adult he or she became greatly exceeded the prediction. We are very perplexed," added Riess, who is also an astronomy and physics professor at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore.

Can you give me a link for this? Also, would it be a good idea to start a new thread, about cosmology, rather than discussing this in a thread about languages?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

My own idea about the story of the Tower of Babel is that it was the response of the exiled Israelites to their first experience of the great city of Babylon; I emphasise that this is only a piece of speculation.

At the time of Nebuchadnezzar Babylon was the largest city in the world, a sort of Baby London, with a population of about half a million. This was probably more than ten times the total population of Judea and at least a hundred time the population of Jerusalem. To an Israelite such a city would have been beyond their imagination; the huge buildings, the great ziggurats, like artificial mountains, that seemed to reach almost to the sky, and wealth beyond the dreams of Solomon in all his glory. To the exiled Jews it would have seemed that these people could do anything and that nothing that they imagined would be beyond their power (Genesis 11:6).

However, as they learnt more, the Jews would have found out that, like all large towns and cities, Babylon contained different communities, different ethnic groups with different languages, with their inevitable disagreements and conflicts. Perhaps the Jews thought that God had divided the people of Babylon into different linguistic communities to prevent them from getting above themselves (particularly in building towers) and to ensure that they would not be able to do anything that they wished to. If so, the myth of the tower of Babel was an attempt to understand how a cosmopolitan city, a single unit that nonetheless consisted of diverse ethnic and linguistic groups, had come into existence.

Buddy, I'm not gonna lie... that is probably one of the more interesting ideas I have ever come across to explain the story of the Tower of Babel.
If I was a teacher, I'd definitely give you an A+ for that.

 

[klutedavid]

Can you give me a link for this? Also, would it be a good idea to start a new thread, about cosmology, rather than discussing this in a thread about languages?

How often do threads about cosmology occur in Christian Forums?

 

[klutedavid]

Can you give me a link for this? Also, would it be a good idea to start a new thread, about cosmology, rather than discussing this in a thread about languages?

space.com/41163-universe-expansion-rate-changes-near-far

 

[klutedavid]

My own idea about the story of the Tower of Babel is that it was the response of the exiled Israelites to their first experience of the great city of Babylon; I emphasise that this is only a piece of speculation.

At the time of Nebuchadnezzar Babylon was the largest city in the world, a sort of Baby London, with a population of about half a million. This was probably more than ten times the total population of Judea and at least a hundred time the population of Jerusalem. To an Israelite such a city would have been beyond their imagination; the huge buildings, the great ziggurats, like artificial mountains, that seemed to reach almost to the sky, and wealth beyond the dreams of Solomon in all his glory. To the exiled Jews it would have seemed that these people could do anything and that nothing that they imagined would be beyond their power (Genesis 11:6).

However, as they learnt more, the Jews would have found out that, like all large towns and cities, Babylon contained different communities, different ethnic groups with different languages, with their inevitable disagreements and conflicts. Perhaps the Jews thought that God had divided the people of Babylon into different linguistic communities to prevent them from getting above themselves (particularly in building towers) and to ensure that they would not be able to do anything that they wished to. If so, the myth of the tower of Babel was an attempt to understand how a cosmopolitan city, a single unit that nonetheless consisted of diverse ethnic and linguistic groups, had come into existence.

For some reason you think the Jews were isolated from the rest of the world. Israel was surrounded by other nations, Israel constantly interacted with people from other countries, people that did not speak Hebrew.

All nations in the middle east were cosmopolitan to some extent. Israel was located in between very large nations such as Egypt and Babylon.
People from other nations had to pass through Israel to travel to other nations.

Trade was an integral and necessary component of life, through trading with other nations. Israel would be fully aware of the cultures of nations near and far.

 

[klutedavid]

Simple; you divide a finite quantity by zero. However, the singularity at the origin of the universe is a mathematical one, not a physical singularity.

The existence of a mathematical singularity means that scientists' current knowledge of the physical laws governing the behaviour of matter breaks down before the Planck time, about 10^-43 seconds after the origin (time zero). It does not mean that the temperature, pressure and density of matter were actually infinite. The fact that present theories break down before the Planck time doesn't invalidate cosmological theory after the Planck time; the present evidence that at that time the universe was in a high-temperature, high-pressure state, and that hydrogen, deuterium, helium-3, helium-4 and lithium-7 were produced in the first few minutes after time zero, is still valid.

What has this got to do with human languages?

What happens if the universe is infinite?

An infinite universe would require a singularity of infinite energy.

 

[dad]

So you don't have any evidence whatsoever that the Tower of Babel existed, but you adamantly cling to the idea that it did exist for zero reason other than the Bible says it did.

So you don't have any evidence whatsoever that the Tower of Babel never existed, but you adamantly cling to the idea that it did not exist for zero reason other than some strange desire to disbelieve the book of books.
OK

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

What happens if the universe is infinite?

An infinite universe would require a singularity of infinite energy.

Not necessarily. The net energy of our universe is taken to be zero, as the gravitational force (the curvature of spacetime by energy, e.g. mass) is effectively negative energy (i.e. equal and opposite) so, as far as we can tell, it precisely balances the positive energy contributions.