Why do I need or look for historical evidence of the existence of Jesus?

[schnauzer]

Before I became a Christian in February 2023, months before I was in a deep depression, which had largely been triggered by searching on YouTube for "does God really exist?" I knew that this search would get me into trouble, and it truly did. I began to idolize the atheists I saw and to sin shamelessly, I lost the meaning of life, I stopped sleeping at night to sleep during the day, and I verbally abused my mother. I lived in a bad mood, without hope for anything, I did not want to bathe, and throughout my life I had a very mediocre relationship with my father. Until February 21, totally immersed in anguish, depression, and tired of having dark and demonic nightmares, I decided to give myself to Christ and tell him that I wanted to sleep peacefully and not have any more nightmares. The next day, not only did I wake up grateful for not having had nightmares, but I also had great faith and great respect for God. Then I nourished that faith by watching sermons, reading the Word, and congregating in the church where in 2021 they had presented me with the gospel message that I had decided to reject or not give it importance. Little by little things changed, the Lord showed me things never before seen or expected in my life, I was able to become completely friends with my father, stop being afraid of him and being his enemy, and I was filled with great joy for many months...
The problem is that my faith began to have ups and downs and a while ago due to some circumstances it weakened considerably.
This, without me realizing it (really), led me to Google (not YouTube this time), but without realizing it I went back to looking for what I had searched for at the end of 2022 before everything started to be chaos: "did Jesus really exist?"
There are many sites and developments made by historians who say that there is no evidence or secular texts (except those of Josephus, Tacitus, etc.) that speak of the existence of Jesus.
I wonder. If there is no solid recognized proof of the existence of Jesus...
Does it make sense to believe in something by faith that even in universities in history classes they teach as a myth?
What secular evidence do they know about the existence of Jesus?
Is it okay for a Christian who has already seen the hand of Christ (like me) to ask these questions or even demand proof that allows him to believe?

Thank you very much

 

[linux.poet]

AMBASSADOR HAT​

Since this post is less of a prayer request and more of a request for advice, this thread has been from moved from the Prayer Wall to Requests for Christian Advice. Please remember to review the Statements of Purpose for each forum section before trying to post in it. Thanks!

 

[timf]

Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Proof is something interesting with regard to faith. There is one obscure reference in Josephus. We have eye witness testimony from the Apostles and Paul. However, the best "proof" comes from the resonance those who are "of the truth" have with the words of Jesus.

Joh 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

 

[jacks]

Here's what the Brave AI engine answered when I asked: "Does any serious historian doubt Jesus existed?" You can of course always find people who will bend over backwards to say he didn't exist, but they have an alternative agenda. (BTW of course it is OK to ask this or any other question about Jesus.)

No serious historian doubts that Jesus existed. Scholarly consensus holds that Jesus was a real historical figure, and there is ample evidence from both Christian and non-Christian sources to support this view.

Scholars like Paul Johnson and Lawrence Mykytiuk affirm that the evidence for Jesus's existence is abundant and that no serious scholar holds the view that he never existed.
Even Michael Martin, a skeptic philosopher of religion, acknowledges that the view that Jesus never existed is not widely held, even among anti-Christian thinkers.

Historical evidence includes references from Jewish and Roman historians such as Josephus and Tacitus, who mention Jesus within a century of his lifetime.
These references, while sometimes controversial, are generally accepted by scholars as authentic.

Therefore, the consensus among historians is that Jesus of Nazareth was a real person who lived and died in history.

 

[timf]

One should exercise caution when using something like AI. The summary of what most others (even "scholars") think is not always true.

 

[Richard T]

Before I became a Christian in February 2023, months before I was in a deep depression, which had largely been triggered by searching on YouTube for "does God really exist?" I knew that this search would get me into trouble, and it truly did. I began to idolize the atheists I saw and to sin shamelessly, I lost the meaning of life, I stopped sleeping at night to sleep during the day, and I verbally abused my mother. I lived in a bad mood, without hope for anything, I did not want to bathe, and throughout my life I had a very mediocre relationship with my father. Until February 21, totally immersed in anguish, depression, and tired of having dark and demonic nightmares, I decided to give myself to Christ and tell him that I wanted to sleep peacefully and not have any more nightmares. The next day, not only did I wake up grateful for not having had nightmares, but I also had great faith and great respect for God. Then I nourished that faith by watching sermons, reading the Word, and congregating in the church where in 2021 they had presented me with the gospel message that I had decided to reject or not give it importance. Little by little things changed, the Lord showed me things never before seen or expected in my life, I was able to become completely friends with my father, stop being afraid of him and being his enemy, and I was filled with great joy for many months...
The problem is that my faith began to have ups and downs and a while ago due to some circumstances it weakened considerably.
This, without me realizing it (really), led me to Google (not YouTube this time), but without realizing it I went back to looking for what I had searched for at the end of 2022 before everything started to be chaos: "did Jesus really exist?"
There are many sites and developments made by historians who say that there is no evidence or secular texts (except those of Josephus, Tacitus, etc.) that speak of the existence of Jesus.
I wonder. If there is no solid recognized proof of the existence of Jesus...
Does it make sense to believe in something by faith that even in universities in history classes they teach as a myth?
What secular evidence do they know about the existence of Jesus?
Is it okay for a Christian who has already seen the hand of Christ (like me) to ask these questions or even demand proof that allows him to believe?

Thank you very much

You seem to be thinking with your intellect on this instead of your spirit. The Holy Spirit helps us to know personally. Why even bother with what others say. Personal experiences matter. It is the same with other parts of the word of God too. We might think we know better and can ignore certain biblical teachings but in the end God's way is best. I would just ask God to help you with any unbelief that you have and ask what you can do to stay on track with God's plan for your life.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Does it make sense to believe in something by faith that even in universities in history classes they teach as a myth?

Thank you very much

As a first order of inquiry, you'd have to engage what university professor(S) of history are actually teaching about Historiography and the Philosophy of History before assuming any understanding of exactly how historical assessment can be applied to the accounts of Jesus of Nazareth.

Without that, we're just watching Koi fish in a pond and calling it phishing.

 

[com7fy8]

It sounds like Jesus has proven Himself to you in the history of your own life. So, may He continue with you; He knows what to do with you.

What matters is what to do because He exists. And the New Testament has to do with how Jesus proves Himself in us > the New Testament shows what is God's will, and Jesus does this with us better than we can understand and believe.

And we discover this together as His family.

"as His family" > we discover and love with Jesus together with one another . . . not as isolated smart people, each of us relating with our own intelligence and other abilities, and our own desires.

So, faith works through love, not only through believing reports about Jesus. Our Apostle Paul says we need "faith working through love", in Galatians 5:6.

So, we need to trust You who are God, and discover how You prove Yourself through Jesus.

 

[JSRG]

Before I became a Christian in February 2023, months before I was in a deep depression, which had largely been triggered by searching on YouTube for "does God really exist?" I knew that this search would get me into trouble, and it truly did. I began to idolize the atheists I saw and to sin shamelessly, I lost the meaning of life, I stopped sleeping at night to sleep during the day, and I verbally abused my mother. I lived in a bad mood, without hope for anything, I did not want to bathe, and throughout my life I had a very mediocre relationship with my father. Until February 21, totally immersed in anguish, depression, and tired of having dark and demonic nightmares, I decided to give myself to Christ and tell him that I wanted to sleep peacefully and not have any more nightmares. The next day, not only did I wake up grateful for not having had nightmares, but I also had great faith and great respect for God. Then I nourished that faith by watching sermons, reading the Word, and congregating in the church where in 2021 they had presented me with the gospel message that I had decided to reject or not give it importance. Little by little things changed, the Lord showed me things never before seen or expected in my life, I was able to become completely friends with my father, stop being afraid of him and being his enemy, and I was filled with great joy for many months...
The problem is that my faith began to have ups and downs and a while ago due to some circumstances it weakened considerably.
This, without me realizing it (really), led me to Google (not YouTube this time), but without realizing it I went back to looking for what I had searched for at the end of 2022 before everything started to be chaos: "did Jesus really exist?"
There are many sites and developments made by historians who say that there is no evidence or secular texts (except those of Josephus, Tacitus, etc.) that speak of the existence of Jesus.
I wonder. If there is no solid recognized proof of the existence of Jesus...
Does it make sense to believe in something by faith that even in universities in history classes they teach as a myth?
What secular evidence do they know about the existence of Jesus?
Is it okay for a Christian who has already seen the hand of Christ (like me) to ask these questions or even demand proof that allows him to believe?

Thank you very much

So to start off, the idea that Jesus did not exist is a fringe theory. Now, something being fringe doesn't inherently mean it's wrong, but it is generally a sign that it's wrong. It's a fringe position even among atheists, at least the actual scholarly ones (i.e. not random people with websites or random people with YouTube channels).

Now, the argument usually goes something like "outside of Christian writings, there isn't anything from the first century that mentions Jesus" and that this proves Jesus didn't exist. The problem with this argument, ultimately, is who would have mentioned Jesus? Or rather, who is it whose writings that survived would have? You must remember we have only a tiny percentage of all of the writings from that time period, because simple weathering and erosion has destroyed almost all texts. Even some of the texts we do have are incomplete.

Consider Alexander the Great. Super-famous and super-influential guy! There's something like 10 cities named after him! But the first surviving source we have that mentions him is from centuries later. Now, of course there were contemporary writings about him, including by people who knew them, but none of them survive to the present day, and it's only the later sources (which did use those older sources) that survive.

Thus the real question is to ask whether any of the surviving non-Christian documents we have should have mentioned Jesus but did not. And the truth is, the non-Christian writings we have don't have any particular need to mention Jesus; they are overwhelmingly by Roman writers who would have had little interest in an alleged miracle worker that mostly went around preaching in a backwater portion (Galilee) of a backwater part of the Roman Empire (Israel), and even if they did have interest, weren't writing about anything that would occasion a reason to bring it up. Sometimes you'll see people throw out various writers who supposedly should have mentioned Jesus, but upon examination those tend to crumble. And the main writer whose writings survive who would have had an interest in that area of the world--Josephus--does mention Jesus!

I could go on and write more, but others have already done a lot of this sort of work for me. For example, this page has some useful information on the subject of why we can be quite certain that Jesus did exist.

 

[TGGIL]

Com7fy8, How so well interpreted, I love your knowledge, and you are the reason I seek for the greater wisdom. I don't know what else to say.

 

[TGGIL]

I can only add to such a question about the validity of Jesus.
Jesus is a man with the likeness of God. A God is someone or something you place higher than yourself. I myself rather have a living God beside me, even inside me, than something else. Until you test the life of hell, will you than know that maybe a God of the living really may exist. You change your thinking and now wonder if a God other people speak of really exist, Hey! Those Living GOD believers look like they are happy, may be there is something to this. Let me ask the other God if he is living, show me a sign please.
You go through Hell forgetting God and raise yourself in the face of others, seeking what living is all about.
You find comfort in the things you believe in and that's how you are living each day.
God is Jesus to us in a human form with a birth mother who is Married to GOD. that is the Christian belief, and the saved ones will take it to the grave.
You want... A Jesus in your life, even if it's not your child, nor you friend you think highly of.
You want a Jesus who can teach us like our mothers and fathers, or whoever changed your diapers. Jesus teaches you what Hell is all about, but the difference in a Christian Jesus is being that GOD was born as Jesus, and no perfect excuse can change these facts. Jesus was pure until he died, still forgiving those who put him to death. Now that's called a Miracle.
Don't ask if Jesus ever existed, Be Jesus! Just give 10 percent and see if you can save a soul.
TGGIL

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Before I became a Christian in February 2023, months before I was in a deep depression, which had largely been triggered by searching on YouTube for "does God really exist?" I knew that this search would get me into trouble, and it truly did. I began to idolize the atheists I saw and to sin shamelessly, I lost the meaning of life, I stopped sleeping at night to sleep during the day, and I verbally abused my mother. I lived in a bad mood, without hope for anything, I did not want to bathe, and throughout my life I had a very mediocre relationship with my father. Until February 21, totally immersed in anguish, depression, and tired of having dark and demonic nightmares, I decided to give myself to Christ and tell him that I wanted to sleep peacefully and not have any more nightmares. The next day, not only did I wake up grateful for not having had nightmares, but I also had great faith and great respect for God. Then I nourished that faith by watching sermons, reading the Word, and congregating in the church where in 2021 they had presented me with the gospel message that I had decided to reject or not give it importance. Little by little things changed, the Lord showed me things never before seen or expected in my life, I was able to become completely friends with my father, stop being afraid of him and being his enemy, and I was filled with great joy for many months...
The problem is that my faith began to have ups and downs and a while ago due to some circumstances it weakened considerably.
This, without me realizing it (really), led me to Google (not YouTube this time), but without realizing it I went back to looking for what I had searched for at the end of 2022 before everything started to be chaos: "did Jesus really exist?"
There are many sites and developments made by historians who say that there is no evidence or secular texts (except those of Josephus, Tacitus, etc.) that speak of the existence of Jesus.
I wonder. If there is no solid recognized proof of the existence of Jesus...
Does it make sense to believe in something by faith that even in universities in history classes they teach as a myth?
What secular evidence do they know about the existence of Jesus?
Is it okay for a Christian who has already seen the hand of Christ (like me) to ask these questions or even demand proof that allows him to believe?

Thank you very much

Dear Fasturtle, The Bible speaks to the heart of this question in both the Old and New Testaments, encouraging both faith and understanding. Jesus Himself, in the Gospels, invites people to believe, not solely on the basis of proof but on trust in Him, in His word, and in the experiences of those who have witnessed His power. In John 20:29, He tells Thomas, “Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” This implies that faith, though often rooted in experience, is not always dependent on empirical evidence.

However, it is important to recognize that God is not dismissive of questions or seeking understanding. In the Bible, we see multiple instances where people wrestle with doubts or seek clarification. For example, the prophet Habakkuk questions God about the injustice he sees, and God responds with understanding and reassurance (Habakkuk 1:2-4, 2:2-3). This suggests that God welcomes a sincere quest for answers, especially when it arises from a genuine desire to know Him more deeply.

As for secular evidence of Jesus’ existence, there are historical accounts from non-Christian sources that mention Him. Roman historians like Tacitus and Jewish sources like Josephus refer to Jesus in a way that affirms His existence and the impact He had on history. These accounts support the Christian testimony, but they are not the primary basis for faith. The Bible itself, both the Old and New Testaments, invites us to know Jesus through the witness of the Spirit, through the experience of His presence, and through the community of believers.

For a Christian who has already experienced the hand of Christ, it is okay to ask questions, even to seek further proof. The Bible does not shy away from the reality that human beings struggle with doubt. Remember that God is patient and desires to build a deeper relationship with us through our questioning. In fact, as seen with Thomas, seeking understanding can deepen our faith. The Bible reminds us in James 1:5, “If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.”

In the end, while secular evidence can strengthen your understanding and deepen your conviction, the Bible continually invites believers to come closer to God through personal relationship, trust, and ultimately, faith—believing in His truth even without seeing all the answers. It is an invitation to move beyond intellectual assent to a living, vibrant relationship with Christ that transcends mere proof, you will see, faith is a transformative process, you will see change as you get closer to GOD and learn to trust him in all things.

Blessings.

 

[Sir Joseph]

Before I became a Christian in February 2023, months before I was in a deep depression, which had largely been triggered by searching on YouTube for "does God really exist?" I knew that this search would get me into trouble, and it truly did. I began to idolize the atheists I saw and to sin shamelessly, I lost the meaning of life, I stopped sleeping at night to sleep during the day, and I verbally abused my mother. I lived in a bad mood, without hope for anything, I did not want to bathe, and throughout my life I had a very mediocre relationship with my father. Until February 21, totally immersed in anguish, depression, and tired of having dark and demonic nightmares, I decided to give myself to Christ and tell him that I wanted to sleep peacefully and not have any more nightmares. The next day, not only did I wake up grateful for not having had nightmares, but I also had great faith and great respect for God. Then I nourished that faith by watching sermons, reading the Word, and congregating in the church where in 2021 they had presented me with the gospel message that I had decided to reject or not give it importance. Little by little things changed, the Lord showed me things never before seen or expected in my life, I was able to become completely friends with my father, stop being afraid of him and being his enemy, and I was filled with great joy for many months...
The problem is that my faith began to have ups and downs and a while ago due to some circumstances it weakened considerably.
This, without me realizing it (really), led me to Google (not YouTube this time), but without realizing it I went back to looking for what I had searched for at the end of 2022 before everything started to be chaos: "did Jesus really exist?"
There are many sites and developments made by historians who say that there is no evidence or secular texts (except those of Josephus, Tacitus, etc.) that speak of the existence of Jesus.
I wonder. If there is no solid recognized proof of the existence of Jesus...
Does it make sense to believe in something by faith that even in universities in history classes they teach as a myth?
What secular evidence do they know about the existence of Jesus?
Is it okay for a Christian who has already seen the hand of Christ (like me) to ask these questions or even demand proof that allows him to believe?

Thank you very much

Others here have given some good, concise responses for you to quickly read and consider Fasturtle. Allow me to offer another avenue to counter your doubts.

I think it's normal and acceptable for anyone to question the Christian faith, be it skeptic or believer. Unfortunately, too many skeptics go to the wrong sources for answers while too many believers skip the process entirely and just base their beliefs on blind faith. Those believers, when later challenged by others around them or by tragic life circumstances, often abandon their faith - dismissing it as baseless as well as unsatisfying.

The reality is that few people (of all world faiths) study the foundational truth for their chosen religious belief system. They either adopt the faith of their influencing family or the one they find most agreeable for their lifestyle - which often defaults to atheism or agnosticism. Sadly, pursuing evidence for the one true faith is rarely the path for the mass of believers. Thus, the world is full of ignorant, misguided people following false religions, along with ignorant, lucky people following the one true religion.

I was in the same boat for the first half of my life, being a Christian via blind faith, but a close relationship with a Catholic girl changed that. My study of Catholicism vs Protestantism eventually grew to a decades long study of world religions and Christian apologetics. It's a pursuit I'd recommend for all believers for 3 reasons:

First, to know that your life's purpose is dedicated to a truthful belief system,
second, to strengthen the conviction of your faith, and
third, for the Christian particularly, to be able to defend your faith and witness to others.

Thus, I'd suggest that all Christians need to spend more time reading, watching, and learning Christian apologetic material in order to achieve the 3 goals above.

I started with books and articles but have also been engaged (daily) with watching YouTube sermons and presentations. Understand, much of it is heretical material, while even much of the supposed Christian sourced material is unbiblical or just plain boring. After watching over 1000 such videos though, I've amassed a collection of the top speakers, topics, and presentations. Here are 4 of my favorites I'd recommend for both skeptics and believers - each from outstanding speakers concerning the case for Christ's validity. It'd take some caring, time, and effort, but I think the 4 hours here should be a rewarding investment in anyone's existing or potential walk of faith and hopefully prompt an interest in studying the varied apologetic topics further.

 

[Josheb]

Why do I need [to] look for historical evidence of the existence of Jesus?

You don't.

Does it make sense to believe in something by faith that even in universities in history classes they teach as a myth?

That depends. Blind faith is not faith at all. Reasonably informed faith is the kind of faith written about in the Bible. Proof does not require faith at all.

What secular evidence do they know about the existence of Jesus?

There are piles of information in answer to that question but the information that most pertains to your faith is that which is written in the gospels.

Is it okay for a Christian who has already seen the hand of Christ (like me) to ask these questions or even demand proof that allows him to believe?

Sure. Thomas did that very thing. However, I will suggest motive is important because the naysayers of Jesus also demanded proof. They were given none other than the resurrection and that they denied. Thomas, on the other hand, made demands based on his desire to believe, not a desire to impugn Jesus and elevate himself.


I highly recommend you pick up a copy of Francis Schaeffer's "He is There and He is not Silent," It's a tough read if you're not practiced reading theology or philosophy so maybe ask your pastor or one of the elders if they have a copy they can loan you. Not only will Schaffer provide you with the basis for a holistic* Christian worldview, and a foundation for understanding the intellectual integrity of Christianity, but there is also a very brief appendix at the end of the book that specifically addressed your inquiry.




* holistic in the sense the worldview that can speak to every circumstance of life.
.

 

[Mountainmike]

Jesus himself states “ if you do not believe me , believe in my works”
He tells johns followers who ask him if he is the one to come “ tell him that the blind see, the lame walk”
He tells capernaum that if the works done there had been done in tyre or Sidon , that they would have repented long ago, so it will be worse for them on judgement day.

The point I make is Jesus had no objection to evidence, but he said “ blessed are those who have believed but not seen”. I find the Catholic Church attitude on what was clear revelation hard to understand.

The shroud and sudarium are real.

There is a mass of evidence since , like the forensics of Eucharistic miracles , but it points at catholic doctrine .

 

[schnauzer]

Parece que estás pensando en esto con tu intelecto en lugar de con tu espíritu. El Espíritu Santo nos ayuda a conocer personalmente. ¿Por qué molestarnos siquiera con lo que dicen los demás? Las experiencias personales importan. Lo mismo sucede con otras partes de la palabra de Dios también. Podemos pensar que sabemos más y podemos ignorar ciertas enseñanzas bíblicas, pero al final el camino de Dios es el mejor. Simplemente le pediría a Dios que te ayude con cualquier incredulidad que tengas y que te pregunte qué puedes hacer para mantenerte en el camino correcto con el plan de Dios para tu vida.

Queridos hermanos, gracias por todas las respuestas.
Llevo 2 o 3 días orando, mañana y noche, y antes de orar o durante el día, siento como que estoy emocionada de tener un encuentro con Dios o que algo bueno va a suceder (no sé cuándo).
Lo que me preocupa es el tema de la incredulidad. Cuando leí las supuestas posibilidades de que Jesús no existiera, se produjo una especie de “ruptura” que a partir de entonces me impidió creer plenamente.
Siento que Jesús no está a mi lado (no digo que Él sea quien me haya abandonado, pero yo me he alejado de Él por incredulidad).
No puedo confiar en Él, ni siquiera un poco, en situaciones donde lo necesito completamente, siento que me ahogo en la incredulidad y que mis oraciones en esos momentos son como “los azotes de un hombre que se está ahogando”.
Algo que considero positivo es que durante la mayoría de las oraciones siento alegría, o bienestar...
Pero bueno, en general no estoy bien, no soy ni la sombra de lo que era en 2023. El miedo está presente en algunas áreas de mi vida.
¿Qué opinas?
Muchas gracias y bendiciones a todos.

Este texto fue traducido del español por Google Translate.
Puede haber algunas inconsistencias.

 

[schnauzer]

Queridos hermanos, gracias por todas las respuestas.
Llevo 2 o 3 días orando, mañana y noche, y antes de orar o durante el día, siento como que estoy emocionada de tener un encuentro con Dios o que algo bueno va a suceder (no sé cuándo).
Lo que me preocupa es el tema de la incredulidad. Cuando leí las supuestas posibilidades de que Jesús no existiera, se produjo una especie de “ruptura” que a partir de entonces me impidió creer plenamente.
Siento que Jesús no está a mi lado (no digo que Él sea quien me haya abandonado, pero yo me he alejado de Él por incredulidad).
No puedo confiar en Él, ni siquiera un poco, en situaciones donde lo necesito completamente, siento que me ahogo en la incredulidad y que mis oraciones en esos momentos son como “los azotes de un hombre que se está ahogando”.
Algo que considero positivo es que durante la mayoría de las oraciones siento alegría, o bienestar...
Pero bueno, en general no estoy bien, no soy ni la sombra de lo que era en 2023. El miedo está presente en algunas áreas de mi vida.
¿Qué opinas?
Muchas gracias y bendiciones a todos.

Este texto fue traducido del español por Google Translate.
Puede haber algunas inconsistencias.

What do you think Richard?