Why do dispensationalists chop up the bible into different ages?

kenneth558

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Well I do not know what you mean by an assignment. So yu ou need to define how you use that term so I do not misunderstand.
YES! Thank you for being able to articulate that!

To help you understand, you COULD read my post above. But here is an example: the very first recorded dispensation was God's assignment (dispensation) assigning mankind dominion over the rest of Creation. That is not a "when". It is an assignment delivered by Authority to ones under His authority, so it is a "what". Please refer to a Englishman's Greek concordance for all occurrences of the Greek word dispensation. You'll find that I cover all said occurrences in my post.

Have to go now Sorry.....

EDIT - I should have said above "...one of the very first..." instead of "...the very first..."
 
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createdtoworship

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Its just bad theology invented and promoted for political aims. Its promoters blackmailed Woodrow Wilson to put Brandeis on the Supreme Court. Lord Balfour was an ardent Christian Zionist.

Further, it requires denying Revelation.

Think Jerry Falwell here.
I won't reply simply because this is fallacy....the fallacy employed is using a known bad example instead of numerous good examples of christian zionists. For example I didn't highlight jonathan edwards above. Many of these guys were the pivotal reasons for revival a few hundred years ago. Without that revival I doubt america would have endorsed christianity but there is no way to know
 
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createdtoworship

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No sir. Each and every promise to Israel was conditional (Jeremiah 18:6-10). Israel failed to keep the terms of the covenant. So God owes Israel nothing.

The tribulation in Palestine was beyond horrible according to Josephus so it does appear that the days of vengeance are punishment for Israel. During the 7 years before the fall of Masada Israel was a nightmare.. Jews were fighting each other and the Romans. Roman troops joined by foreign garrisons from Egypt, Syria and Arabia.. Zealots running amok (Galilleans, Idumeans)

"But if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your children, and will not keep my commandments and my statutes which I have set before you... Then will I cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them..." 1 Kings 9:5-9, Mal 3:1-5


Jesus' Prophecy:
"Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation." Mat 23:34-36.

Its also possible that the Jews interpreted the long period of the bloody civil war as punishment from God.. The way some Christians today interpret a weather event like a hurricane as punishment from God. Like Dispensationalist Jerry Falwell used to do.

ok so lets have a theology lesson here but let me break it down so you can see practically what was said. Just imagine a pastor or theologian that came to you and said...."hey bud you sinned a little too much, God is fed up with you and His plan for your life is revoked, not only including salvation but also concerning all the benefits of the millenium." Hey and by the way "Jesus loves you." I hope you see my point. It's totally sad that in a desperate effort to deny dispensational theology, they go to the point of literally saying God has forsaken a nation He actually elected. Which I thought according to a calvinist is impossible, so there is that. But anyway this is a really disturbing doctrine. And it grieves me beyond mention. There are hundreds of other hermeneutical failures of covenant theology that we can debate, but this one 'replacement theology' is probably the most notable biblical error. In fact God devotes an entire chapter rebuking it...

Romans 11:1-36
 
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summerville

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I won't reply simply because this is fallacy....the fallacy employed is using a known bad example instead of numerous good examples of christian zionists. For example I didn't highlight jonathan edwards above. Many of these guys were the pivotal reasons for revival a few hundred years ago. Without that revival I doubt america would have endorsed christianity but there is no way to know

Christian Zionists are dispensationalists and no Apostle or Disciple
ever heard of dispensations. Its a terrible theology.. 2/3rds of Jews die.
 
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summerville

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ok so lets have a theology lesson here but let me break it down so you can see practically what was said. Just imagine a pastor or theologian that came to you and said...."hey bud you sinned a little too much, God is fed up with you and His plan for your life is revoked, not only including salvation but also concerning all the benefits of the millenium." Hey and by the way "Jesus loves you." I hope you see my point. It's totally sad that in a desperate effort to deny dispensational theology, they go to the point of literally saying God has forsaken a nation He actually elected. Which I thought according to a calvinist is impossible, so there is that. But anyway this is a really disturbing doctrine. And it grieves me beyond mention. There are hundreds of other hermeneutical failures of covenant theology that we can debate, but this one 'replacement theology' is probably the most notable biblical error. In fact God devotes an entire chapter rebuking it...

Romans 11:1-36

What does your narrative have to do with the first century and the Jewish wars?
 
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createdtoworship

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Dispensationalism was/is a way of promoting Christian Zionism.

No sir. Each and every promise to Israel was conditional (Jeremiah 18:6-10). Israel failed to keep the terms of the covenant. So God owes Israel nothing.

You are so very very wrong!

Jeremiah 31: 31- 37 is a very unconditional covenant God made with the whole house of Israel!
!

YES! Thank you for being able to articulate that!

I wrote an essay on this, hopefully this clears up some of this...(sorry kenneth I haven't adressed your comment, hopefully this answers that issue)

a lesson in systematic theology 094.png


Imagine some Christian telling you "God is done with you, you doubted too many times, sinned too many times, God has rejected you." I would be so destroyed. Yet many theologians are doing that to Israel today. This is soooo completely not okay. You cannot alienate an entire ethnicity from God's plan of salvation simply because it does not match your church theology, guys we need to do better! Many theologians, I would say the majority of churches are denying God’s call on Israel and saying God gave it to the Christians. But God wrote a whole chapter refuting that notion: romans 11. Let’s rewind a little bit and zoom out for a bigger picture of how this happened. There is a big debate among theologians between something called dispensationalism and covenant theology (reformed views). The number one argument against dispensationalism is that there are different gospels in the Bible. And from my studies there are in fact different gospels according to their beliefs. But the biggest argument against covenantal theology is that they say that God revoked Israel. Yes God did ‘divorce’ Israel according to scripture. But just like any of us, just because we become prodigal children, He does not deny us the opportunity to come back. The only thing Israel lost was some of the rewards of following Christ all those years. One day according to scripture Israel will come to know the true messiah. “And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob” Romans 11:26. So I challenge you to ask your pastor if He believes in the concept of replacement theology. Most reformed churches do, however in recent years there has been a merging of doctrine (which is a good thing), there is no solid line between covenantal theology and dispensationalism. For instance John Piper is a soft covenantal theologian (and includes Israel into the will of God); however John Macarthur is a soft dispensationalist. So more and more as theologians are seeing the errors of extremism, we are meeting on middle Ground. Which is Jesus. One thing Piper says regarding dispensationalism is that ‘Is the literal viewpoint.’ I agree hyper dispensationalism has some serious problems, namely different gospels and different kingdoms and different stuff all the time in different ages. There are also other errors with dispensationalism that John Macarthur points to (as a dispensationalist), namely free grace soteriology, and cessationalism. Both are taught by free gracers and are against scripture. Does that mean we should reject a literal view of the Bible? Well hold on there, there are many positives of dispensationalism. See with the advent of the Scofield study Bible (the first study Bible) dispensationalism spurred a return in the early 1900’s to the Bible. Dispensationalism also came up with the very first systematic theology (chafer systematic theology), and systematic theology was a byproduct of the flood of theology that evolved from dispensationalism. Ever heard of the popular rapture theory, yes that was a principle of dispensationalism. So don’t throw the baby out with the bath water, don’t allegorize all the prophecy relating to Israel, thousands of words of the Bible and solely apply it to yourself as a Christian. Yes there are long term and short term fulfillments of prophecy, and yes we can claim promises for us in the scripture. But don’t forget the immediate fulfillment in History either. Let’s dig more into romans 11 to take some principles out of it. One can also google “scriptures that disprove replacement theology.” So let’s dig in…

In chapter 11 of romans it indicates the error that God would reject anyone over a sin issue….

“I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.”Romans 11:11

Furthermore God reiterates He would never reject one whom He elected to salvation:

“God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew.” Romans 11:2

There is a pride among theologians that Christianity is better than Israel…… (Israel is the root of our faith) remember what God says…

“do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.” Romans 11:18


So again you don’t have to accept all the dispensations but I think there are at least three. You have Adam and eve, they had one thing to do… not eat of the fruit, and they didn’t so they lost salvation sort to say…but it was a different age of salvation. And they failed at it. Secondly there was the old testament sacrifice….Leviticus said the sacrifices did temporarily forgive sin… Leviticus 4:20. Now that was a different type of salvation. Now the first system just failed, the second system was with a view toward a third system. Real eternal salvation. So while I deny that there were different salvations, in the long term, there were short term different methods of salvation. Adam and eve originally were not saved by faith. They had seen God face to face and didn’t technically need faith at that time. They were saved by obedience. And when that system failed, God purported to reveal His long term plan of salvation, that of faith through grace. But He would institute sacrifice to temporarily cover sin, I suppose in order that in divorcing Israel, God would not REALLY reject them. If there was no Leviticus, then Israel would be so wicked before God that God would not have entertained them. So there was a need for sacrifice. So again covenant theologians focus on long term salvation and say we are saved by faith in every age, which is not really right. Adam and eve were not saved by faith…on short term. Yes long term they are saved by faith because they went to Abraham’s bosom and had the gospel preached to them, when Christ descended into hell. So yes they are saved by faith long term but not short term. Dispensationalists focus on the long term ‘salvation by faith.’ And forget that salvation also involves repentance. Many covenant theologians understand salvic repentance. But dispensationalists seem to miss that part. So again there are errors on both views. I respect the dispensational view more simply because even John Piper admitted it’s the more literal view. But it does have errors. I only mention some of them. I do believe covenant theology has more errors, namely rejecting Israel. Which is why I mention this article, so again use this information, tell your pastor and ask Him if He believes the church superseded all the biblical promises for Israel and usurped them to themselves. Romans 11 says not so. While yes, we were grafted into the vine of blessing, and while we borrowed some of the fruit. We would not be here if it were not for Israel. And we should not boast against the root of our faith…and say God has rejected the Jew. One day they will all be saved.
 
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summerville

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Jewish Christian refugees returned to Israel after the war in fulfillment of Isaiah 65:9: “I will bring forth descendants from Jacob, and from Judah those who will possess my mountains; my chosen people will inherit them, and there will my servants live.”

jerusalem-to-pella.jpg
 
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summerville

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I wrote an essay on this, hopefully this clears up some of this...(sorry kenneth I haven't adressed your comment, hopefully this answers that issue)

View attachment 272630

Why is there a need for systematic theology? Well I have one illustration. Imagine a theologian at a prestigious seminary standing in a pulpit and telling you that because you have sinned one too many times that God was done with your calling and that He has revoked your election. That would be really messed up. Many theologians, I would say the majority of churches are denying God’s call on Israel and saying God gave it to the Christians. But God wrote a whole chapter refuting that notion: romans 11. Let’s rewind a little bit and zoom out for a bigger picture of how this happened. There is a big debate among theologians between something called dispensationalism and covenant theology (reformed views). The number one argument against dispensationalism is that there are different gospels in the Bible. And from my studies there are in fact different gospels according to their beliefs. But the biggest argument against covenantal theology is that they say that God revoked Israel. Yes God did ‘divorce’ Israel according to scripture. But just like any of us, just because we become prodigal children, He does not deny us the opportunity to come back. The only thing Israel lost was some of the rewards of following Christ all those years. One day according to scripture Israel will come to know the true messiah. “And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob” Romans 11:26. So I challenge you to ask your pastor if He believes in the concept of replacement theology. Most reformed churches do, however in recent years there has been a merging of doctrine (which is a good thing), there is no solid line between covenantal theology and dispensationalism. For instance John Piper is a soft covenantal theologian (and includes Israel into the will of God); however John Macarthur is a soft dispensationalist. So more and more as theologians are seeing the errors of extremism, we are meeting on middle Ground. Which is Jesus. One thing Piper says regarding dispensationalism is that ‘Is the literal viewpoint.’ I agree hyper dispensationalism has some serious problems, namely different gospels and different kingdoms and different stuff all the time in different ages. There are also other errors with dispensationalism that John Macarthur points to (as a dispensationalist), namely free grace soteriology, and cessationalism. Both are taught by free gracers and are against scripture. Does that mean we should reject a literal view of the Bible? Well hold on there, there are many positives of dispensationalism. See with the advent of the Scofield study Bible (the first study Bible) dispensationalism spurred a return in the early 1900’s to the Bible. Dispensationalism also came up with the very first systematic theology (chafer systematic theology), and systematic theology was a byproduct of the flood of theology that evolved from dispensationalism. Ever heard of the popular rapture theory, yes that was a principle of dispensationalism. So don’t throw the baby out with the bath water, don’t allegorize all the prophecy relating to Israel, thousands of words of the Bible and solely apply it to yourself as a Christian. Yes there are long term and short term fulfillments of prophecy, and yes we can claim promises for us in the scripture. But don’t forget the immediate fulfillment in History either. Let’s dig more into romans 11 to take some principles out of it. One can also google “scriptures that disprove replacement theology.” So let’s dig in…

In chapter 11 of romans it indicates the error that God would reject anyone over a sin issue….

“I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.”Romans 11:11

Furthermore God reiterates He would never reject one whom He elected to salvation:

“God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew.” Romans 11:2

There is a pride among theologians that Christianity is better than Israel…… (Israel is the root of our faith) remember what God says…

“do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.” Romans 11:18


So again you don’t have to accept all the dispensations but I think there are at least three. You have Adam and eve, they had one thing to do… not eat of the fruit, and they didn’t so they lost salvation sort to say…but it was a different age of salvation. And they failed at it. Secondly there was the old testament sacrifice….Leviticus said the sacrifices did temporarily forgive sin… Leviticus 4:20. Now that was a different type of salvation. Now the first system just failed, the second system was with a view toward a third system. Real eternal salvation. So while I deny that there were different salvations, in the long term, there were short term different methods of salvation. Adam and eve originally were not saved by faith. They had seen God face to face and didn’t technically need faith at that time. They were saved by obedience. And when that system failed, God purported to reveal His long term plan of salvation, that of faith through grace. But He would institute sacrifice to temporarily cover sin, I suppose in order that in divorcing Israel, God would not REALLY reject them. If there was no Leviticus, then Israel would be so wicked before God that God would not have entertained them. So there was a need for sacrifice. So again covenant theologians focus on long term salvation and say we are saved by faith in every age, which is not really right. Adam and eve were not saved by faith…on short term. Yes long term they are saved by faith because they went to Abraham’s bosom and had the gospel preached to them, when Christ descended into hell. So yes they are saved by faith long term but not short term. Dispensationalists focus on the long term ‘salvation by faith.’ And forget that salvation also involves repentance. Many covenant theologians understand salvic repentance. But dispensationalists seem to miss that part. So again there are errors on both views. I respect the dispensational view more simply because even John Piper admitted it’s the more literal view. But it does have errors. I only mention some of them. I do believe covenant theology has more errors, namely rejecting Israel. Which is why I mention this article, so again use this information, tell your pastor and ask Him if He believes the church superseded all the biblical promises for Israel and usurped them to themselves. Romans 11 says not so. While yes, we were grafted into the vine of blessing, and while we borrowed some of the fruit. We would not be here if it were not for Israel. And we should not boast against the root of our faith…and say God has rejected the Jew. One day they will all be saved.

The futurist eschatology is that 2/3rds of Jews will die rather than convert. That's "Christian Zionism".
 
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createdtoworship

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The futurist eschatology is that 2/3rds of Jews will die rather than convert. That's "Christian Zionism".
But the point is this....God does not reject us based on temporary doubt, or temporary sin. He only rejects us if we die in that state of life long rejection. But to say God rejects an entire ethnicity based on their great great grandfathers rejection of God is really really really messed up.
 
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summerville

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But the point is this....God does not reject us based on temporary doubt, or temporary sin. He only rejects us if we die in that state. But to say God rejects an entire ethnicity based on their great great grandfathers rejection of God is really really really messed up.

God says no such thing.. That's the Scofield heretics who promoted Christian Zionism.
 
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createdtoworship

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summerville

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nolidad

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God said that WHENEVER he speaks about planting them as a kingdom and they do evil and do not repent that he will REPENT of the good he said he would do. Chapter 31 says nothing about God doing it "despite Israel's failure." The covenant was made to the WHOLE houses Judah and of Israel, not just the last generation of them before Christ comes. The fact that they have been dispossessed for the last 2,000 years totally disproves your "unconditional" theory.

Even Peter said that the restoration of the kingdom was CONDITIONAL upon their repentance.

19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins MAY be wiped out, that the times of refreshing MAY come from the Lord, 20 and that he MAY send the Christ, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus. 21 Heaven must receive him until the times come for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

Repent... that your sins MAY be wiped out... that the the times of refreshing MAY come... that he MAY send Jesus....

Well I will take your opinion and Trump you with the Word of God:

Jer. 31:
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:

36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

Romans 11:

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

HMM? Maybe Paul didn't get teh same memo you got?
 
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YES! Thank you for being able to articulate that!

To help you understand, you COULD read my post above. But here is an example: the very first recorded dispensation was God's assignment (dispensation) assigning mankind dominion over the rest of Creation. That is not a "when". It is an assignment delivered by Authority to ones under His authority, so it is a "what". Please refer to a Englishman's Greek concordance for all occurrences of the Greek word dispensation. You'll find that I cover all said occurrences in my post.

Have to go now Sorry.....

EDIT - I should have said above "...one of the very first..." instead of "...the very first..."

Well I think I understand!

And as I told you, the assignment is far more important than the when. But as each assignment came to an end- we can look at the Bible and see each new assignment, when it started and when it ended (with the exception of course as the church assignment or dispensation of Grace or the church)
 
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I wrote an essay on this, hopefully this clears up some of this...(sorry kenneth I haven't adressed your comment, hopefully this answers that issue)

View attachment 272630

Imagine some Christian telling you "God is done with you, you doubted too many times, sinned too many times, God has rejected you." I would be so destroyed. Yet many theologians are doing that to Israel today. This is soooo completely not okay. You cannot alienate an entire ethnicity from God's plan of salvation simply because it does not match your church theology, guys we need to do better! Many theologians, I would say the majority of churches are denying God’s call on Israel and saying God gave it to the Christians. But God wrote a whole chapter refuting that notion: romans 11. Let’s rewind a little bit and zoom out for a bigger picture of how this happened. There is a big debate among theologians between something called dispensationalism and covenant theology (reformed views). The number one argument against dispensationalism is that there are different gospels in the Bible. And from my studies there are in fact different gospels according to their beliefs. But the biggest argument against covenantal theology is that they say that God revoked Israel. Yes God did ‘divorce’ Israel according to scripture. But just like any of us, just because we become prodigal children, He does not deny us the opportunity to come back. The only thing Israel lost was some of the rewards of following Christ all those years. One day according to scripture Israel will come to know the true messiah. “And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob” Romans 11:26. So I challenge you to ask your pastor if He believes in the concept of replacement theology. Most reformed churches do, however in recent years there has been a merging of doctrine (which is a good thing), there is no solid line between covenantal theology and dispensationalism. For instance John Piper is a soft covenantal theologian (and includes Israel into the will of God); however John Macarthur is a soft dispensationalist. So more and more as theologians are seeing the errors of extremism, we are meeting on middle Ground. Which is Jesus. One thing Piper says regarding dispensationalism is that ‘Is the literal viewpoint.’ I agree hyper dispensationalism has some serious problems, namely different gospels and different kingdoms and different stuff all the time in different ages. There are also other errors with dispensationalism that John Macarthur points to (as a dispensationalist), namely free grace soteriology, and cessationalism. Both are taught by free gracers and are against scripture. Does that mean we should reject a literal view of the Bible? Well hold on there, there are many positives of dispensationalism. See with the advent of the Scofield study Bible (the first study Bible) dispensationalism spurred a return in the early 1900’s to the Bible. Dispensationalism also came up with the very first systematic theology (chafer systematic theology), and systematic theology was a byproduct of the flood of theology that evolved from dispensationalism. Ever heard of the popular rapture theory, yes that was a principle of dispensationalism. So don’t throw the baby out with the bath water, don’t allegorize all the prophecy relating to Israel, thousands of words of the Bible and solely apply it to yourself as a Christian. Yes there are long term and short term fulfillments of prophecy, and yes we can claim promises for us in the scripture. But don’t forget the immediate fulfillment in History either. Let’s dig more into romans 11 to take some principles out of it. One can also google “scriptures that disprove replacement theology.” So let’s dig in…

In chapter 11 of romans it indicates the error that God would reject anyone over a sin issue….

“I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.”Romans 11:11

Furthermore God reiterates He would never reject one whom He elected to salvation:

“God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew.” Romans 11:2

There is a pride among theologians that Christianity is better than Israel…… (Israel is the root of our faith) remember what God says…

“do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.” Romans 11:18


So again you don’t have to accept all the dispensations but I think there are at least three. You have Adam and eve, they had one thing to do… not eat of the fruit, and they didn’t so they lost salvation sort to say…but it was a different age of salvation. And they failed at it. Secondly there was the old testament sacrifice….Leviticus said the sacrifices did temporarily forgive sin… Leviticus 4:20. Now that was a different type of salvation. Now the first system just failed, the second system was with a view toward a third system. Real eternal salvation. So while I deny that there were different salvations, in the long term, there were short term different methods of salvation. Adam and eve originally were not saved by faith. They had seen God face to face and didn’t technically need faith at that time. They were saved by obedience. And when that system failed, God purported to reveal His long term plan of salvation, that of faith through grace. But He would institute sacrifice to temporarily cover sin, I suppose in order that in divorcing Israel, God would not REALLY reject them. If there was no Leviticus, then Israel would be so wicked before God that God would not have entertained them. So there was a need for sacrifice. So again covenant theologians focus on long term salvation and say we are saved by faith in every age, which is not really right. Adam and eve were not saved by faith…on short term. Yes long term they are saved by faith because they went to Abraham’s bosom and had the gospel preached to them, when Christ descended into hell. So yes they are saved by faith long term but not short term. Dispensationalists focus on the long term ‘salvation by faith.’ And forget that salvation also involves repentance. Many covenant theologians understand salvic repentance. But dispensationalists seem to miss that part. So again there are errors on both views. I respect the dispensational view more simply because even John Piper admitted it’s the more literal view. But it does have errors. I only mention some of them. I do believe covenant theology has more errors, namely rejecting Israel. Which is why I mention this article, so again use this information, tell your pastor and ask Him if He believes the church superseded all the biblical promises for Israel and usurped them to themselves. Romans 11 says not so. While yes, we were grafted into the vine of blessing, and while we borrowed some of the fruit. We would not be here if it were not for Israel. And we should not boast against the root of our faith…and say God has rejected the Jew. One day they will all be saved.


Well I do not have much argument but two with your essay!
First what do you mean by different gospels?

Second salvation is by grace alone through faith! It is free grace soteriology because Jesus paid the price for us!

As for the number of dispensations- you see three and some more modern pastors listed 33. I don't much care. I hold to the seven (or eight-if you separate the 70th week of Daniel)
 
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kenneth558

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The number one argument against dispensationalism is that there are different gospels in the Bible.

Personally, my number one argument against both dispensationalism and covenant theology is that they both misunderstand what the Bible means by the term "dispensation", as I am trying to explain even with a little more below...

Well I think I understand!

And as I told you, the assignment is far more important than the when. But as each assignment came to an end- we can look at the Bible and see each new assignment, when it started and when it ended (with the exception of course as the church assignment or dispensation of Grace or the church)
Above I misstated the first dispensation. I went back to scripture and find the first dispensation from God to mankind is to "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth" .

This assignment has not come to an end. Neither has the next one: to subdue the earth because we have dominion over it.

Let me now go on to explain exactly why this whole point is so important. Again, as I pointed out from Deuteronomy 29:29:
The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever.​

From my life experience, to misunderstand what a dispensation is also leads to unbelief of the verse above in the sense that we seem to be determined after enough time has passed to declare truths as obsolete that were fully accepted when the scriptures were being penned. Israel did this very same thing when they stopped living in booths, if you remember. But they experienced revival as we read in Neh 8:14-17 and resumed obedience to living in booths in the feast of the seventh month.

In 1 Corinthians 10:11 we are told that scripture is for us "upon whom the ends of the world are come". This verse has in mind the proper definition of dispensation. But under the popular misconception of this term, we are the ones, instead of scriptures, to decide that certain things previously true in scripture but hard to fit into our complex theology have become obsolete rather than having been forever settled in heaven (Psalm 119:89), and we no longer continue in the faith grounded and settled (Colossians 1:23). We end up thinking contrary to I Cor 10:11 here and decide that scripture becomes less and less relevant as we approach the ends of the world. A really bad mistake!

There is much, much more to support the position I'm trying to articulate, but I realize it is hard to follow a long post...

Thank you!
 
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createdtoworship

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Well I do not have much argument but two with your essay!
First what do you mean by different gospels?

Second salvation is by grace alone through faith! It is free grace soteriology because Jesus paid the price for us!

As for the number of dispensations- you see three and some more modern pastors listed 33. I don't much care. I hold to the seven (or eight-if you separate the 70th week of Daniel)
I mention it in the OP but adam and eve were initially not saved by faith. The the gospel changed. The way to be saved changed, originally they did not have faith in God. God was there present, so it goes to show faith is not necessary. God asked for obedience, in which they failed. So the gospel changed, then sacrifice was initiated to postpone judgement of sins, while people were in abrahams bosom. Then as Christ came He allowed salvation by faith through grace (with repentance). But free grace fails simply because the majority of texts involving salvation talk about repentance. And free gracers do not require repentance at salvation. I agree with the seven dispensations, I think they are different covenants, but I don't think we need to focus on that. I feel people need to understand the roles of OT sacrifice and understand that aspect of it.
 
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createdtoworship

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Personally, my number one argument against both dispensationalism and covenant theology is that they both misunderstand what the Bible means by the term "dispensation", as I am trying to explain even with a little more below...

Above I misstated the first dispensation. I went back to scripture and find the first dispensation from God to mankind is to "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth" .

This assignment has not come to an end. Neither has the next one: to subdue the earth because we have dominion over it.

Let me now go one to explain exactly why this whole point is so important. Again, as I pointed out from Deuteronomy 29:29:
The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever.​

From my life experience, to misunderstand what a dispensation is also leads to unbelief of the verse above in the sense that we seem to be determined after enough time has passed to declare truths as obsolete that were fully accepted when the scriptures were being penned. Israel did this very same thing when they stopped living in booths, if you remember. But they experienced revival as we read in Neh 8:14-17 and resumed obedience to living in booths in the feast of the seventh month.

In 1 Corinthians 10:11 we are told that scripture is for us "upon whom the ends of the world are come". This verse has in mind the proper definition of dispensation. But under the popular misconception of this term, we are the ones, instead of scriptures, to decide that certain things previously true in scripture but hard to fit into our complex theology have become obsolete rather than having been forever settled in heaven (Psalm 119:89), and we no longer continue in the faith grounded and settled (Colossians 1:23). We end up thinking contrary to I Cor 10:11 here and decide that scripture becomes less and less relevant as we approach the ends of the world. A really bad mistake!

There is much, much more to support the position I'm trying to articulate, but I realize it is hard to follow a long post...

Thank you!
I don't have a problem with how dispensationalists view the times. But if you feel the Lord is burdening you on that particular issue, go ahead and talk about it.
 
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createdtoworship

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Yes the Plymouth Brethern all held to Calvinism.
reformed churches in america RCA, and CRC (christian reformed churches) are typically calvinist, as well as any other reformed churches. However I would ask your pastor, even non calvinists believe the promises of the church overlap Israel, and that Israel forfeited their promises and they were given to the church, which is really messed up.
 
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summerville

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reformed churches in america RCA, and CRC (christian reformed churches) are typically calvinist, as well as any other reformed churches. However I would ask your pastor, even non calvinists believe the promises of the church overlap Israel, and that Israel forfeited their promises and they were given to the church, which is really messed up.

Yes.. that seems to be what they believe. I just don't agree that the Jews forfeited to the Church.
 
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