Why do Christians shy away from maintaining our society just?

[Eynes]

Exodus 18 outlines the commandment God gives us to maintain justice as a society,

(20) Teach them the decrees and laws, and show them the way to live and the duties they are to perform. (21) But select capable men from all the people-men who fear God, trustworthy men who hate dishonest gain-and appoint them as officials over thousands, hundreds, fifties and tens. (22) Have them serve as judges for the people at all times, but have them bring every difficult case to you; the simple cases they can decide themselves. That will make your load lighter, because they will share it with you. (23) If you do this and God so commands, you will be able to stand the strain, and all these people will go home satisfied."
(24) Moses listened to his father-in-law and did everything he said. (25) He chose capable men from all Israel and made them leaders of the people, officials over thousands, hundreds, fifties and tens. (26) They served as judges for the people at all times. The difficult cases they brought to Moses, but the simple ones they decided themselves.

not as a church. The commandment given to Moses was learned from his father-in-law, who cam from another country.

...and Jethro returned to his own country.

So what was expected of Moses was already being done elsewhere in the world. What many christians don't know is that it is God's plan to keep peace democratically

...because they will share it with you.

What is also unknown is that our order is kept in a republican fashion, with the leaders of the several levels, thousands, hundreds, etc., staying with the boudaries of duties and responsibilities given to them for the levels the have been chosen, all republics in the standing.

Also unknown is the fact that our own nation is based on the same plan, with our nation broken into states, then going on down the line until it gets to wards. Relief should come from knowing that we have God's promise that he will keep us safe and sound, if we just folllow his commandments.

1 If you fully obey the LORD your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the LORD your God will set you high above all the nations on earth. 2 All these blessings will come upon you and accompany you if you obey the LORD your God:

3 You will be blessed in the city and blessed in the country.
4 The fruit of your womb will be blessed, and the crops of your land and the young of your livestock-the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks.
5 Your basket and your kneading trough will be blessed.
6 You will be blessed when you come in and blessed when you go out.

7 The LORD will grant that the enemies who rise up against you will be defeated before you. They will come at you from one direction but flee from you in seven.
8 The LORD will send a blessing on your barns and on everything you put your hand to. The LORD your God will bless you in the land he is giving you.
9 The LORD will establish you as his holy people, as he promised you on oath, if you keep the commands of the LORD your God and walk in his ways. 10 Then all the peoples on earth will see that you are called by the name of the LORD , and they will fear you. 11 The LORD will grant you abundant prosperity-in the fruit of your womb, the young of your livestock and the crops of your ground-in the land he swore to your forefathers to give you.
12 The LORD will open the heavens, the storehouse of his bounty, to send rain on your land in season and to bless all the work of your hands. You will lend to many nations but will borrow from none. 13 The LORD will make you the head, not the tail. If you pay attention to the commands of the LORD your God that I give you this day and carefully follow them, you will always be at the top, never at the bottom. 14 Do not turn aside from any of the commands I give you today, to the right or to the left, following other gods and serving them.

But we don't. Instead we make our own, and suffer from it.

"Woe to the obstinate children,"
declares the LORD ,
"to those who carry out plans that are not mine,

We need to start showing God's rightiousness and power, and do as he commands.

 

[Stan the Man]

Romans 7:7-25

 

[Eynes]

Romans 7:7-25

You're right, but why do Christians shy away from maintaining our society just?

 

[inquisitor_11]

The Danish philosopher Soren Kierkegaard once wrote about a town where a fireman lived. Everyone liked the fireman because he was a nice guy. He made it a habit to be gentle and kind, which was unusual for firemen, who were supposed to be tough.
There was a fire one day, and the fireman charged to the scene of the fire with his fellow firemen and heavy equipment. As they came toward the fire, much to their surprise and chagrin, they encountered between themselves and the flames about two hundred townspeople. And each of them was standing there with a water pistol, aiming at the fire, going squirt, squirt, squirt, squirt.
The fireman asked, "What's going on here?" A spokesman for the group turned and said, "Well, we all appreciate this wonderful work you're doing in our community, and each of us has come to contribute in some small way to your work." Squirt, squirt. "Oh we realize that we all could do more, and we know you can handle it without us?" said the spokesman. Everyone around quick to voice their agreement. "But we just wanted to offer this token of help." Squirt, squirt.
"You don't know what you're doing!" shouted the fireman.
"True, but you have to appreciate the fact that everyone is willing to offer a little bit of help as they can," said the spokesman. And everyone said amen and went squirt squirt.
At that the fireman shouted... get out of here. This is no picnic. This is a fire and a fire doesn't require well-meaning people who come to make small contributions. A fire is a place where lives are at stake. If you want to make a contribution, become a fireman. Learn to channel the great flows of water available to where it is needed.

I think that in the west we have cultivated a church full of squirters.... being a firefighter means you might actually have to take a few risks.

 

[brinley45cal]

You're right, but why do Christians shy away from maintaining our society just?

Bad teaching for one.Most christians think your suppose to keep your mouth shut and just let people do what they want since they are already christians that what goes on in the world is non of there buisness.That is so wrong,christians have become spiritual wimps but its time to awake the sleeping giant and take our country back.

 

[inquisitor_11]

Bad teaching for one.Most christians think your suppose to keep your mouth shut and just let people do what they want since they are already christians that what goes on in the world is non of there buisness.That is so wrong,christians have become spiritual wimps but its time to awake the sleeping giant and take our country back.

Your country? I don't recall God giving it to you...

 

[Eynes]

you might actually have to take a few risk

Disobedience to God is a greater risk.

 

[Eynes]

its time to... take our country back.

In Jesus Christ's name, for the power and glory of God, our father.
Amen.

 

[Eynes]

Your country? I don't recall God giving it to you...

1 Corintihians 6:2 *Do you not know that believers will one day rule the world?

You're right. He gives us the world to rule over.

6:4 **Do you not know also that we Christians are to rule over God's angels and tell them when they are right and wrong?

*From the Amplified Bible
**Paraphrased from the Amplified Bible

 

[inquisitor_11]

"My kingdom is not of this world"

-the Man himself

 

[Sharp]

"My kingdom is not of this world"

-the Man himself

Yet surely you agree that God's principles should inform our decisions in this world... such as public policy and morality?

We are to be salt and light. I take that to mean we as Bible-based bornagain Christians are to influence government and other institutions to conform to God's standards for nations.

 

[inquisitor_11]

Yet surely you agree that God's principles should inform our decisions in this world.

Wholeheartedly! Sorry, I suppose I didn't really clarify where I was coming from.

My point was that I don't really see post-Incarnation christianity being intended as a basis for a nation-state "my kingdom is not of this world" etc. . I also think that our discipleship calls us to be intensely involved in the life of whatever communities we might be in (which includes nation-states).

However, I don't think that Jesus wanted to establish another physical kingdom like Israel was. That's why I think that Calvin's Switzerland, and the "God blessed" USA were/are immense distortions of what the kingdom of God is meant to be.

 

[ahab]

Hi Inquisitor_11

"My kingdom is not of this world"

-the Man himself

IMO the Kingdom of God is where God rules and reigns, love, peace joy and righteousness, thats why we pray let His Kingdom come and let His will be done, on earth as in Heaven. So when we say we will take back our country it is the country we belong to, with the will of God being done rather than the will of man

 

[inquisitor_11]

Hi Inquisitor_11


IMO the Kingdom of God is where God rules and reigns, love, peace joy and righteousness, thats why we pray let His Kingdom come and let His will be done, on earth as in Heaven. So when we say we will take back our country it is the country we belong to, with the will of God being done rather than the will of man

Yup... a big agreement from me. Except that id see "our country" as being a very different thing from building a "christian" nation-state.

 

[Eynes]

We are to be salt...

Salt has a dual purpose. One, it makes food more palatable, or pleasing to taste. It also creates an environment in food that kills food borne bacterias and prevents them from multiplying.

As salt to the earth, we are to make the world a more pleasing place to live in and be an example to everyone to keep evil from multiplying.

Titus 2:7 show your own self in all respects to be a pattern and a model of good

 

[Eynes]

Yup... a big agreement from me. Except that id see "our country" as being a very different thing from building a "christian" nation-state.

or our beliefs on others "by law" or as a state. During the Puritan days of our colonial heritage, some colony residents faced the same conditions. That is why we have a separation of religion from state today. If it had been God;s will for us to live with His will imposed on us by law, we wouldn't have free will.

 

[inquisitor_11]

or our beliefs on others "by law" or as a state. During the Puritan days of our colonial heritage, some colony residents faced the same conditions. That is why we have a separation of religion from state today. If it had been God;s will for us to live with His will imposed on us by law, we wouldn't have free will.

Yep... thats why i got worried when someone said they wanted to take back "our country".

 

[Stan the Man]

You're right, but why do Christians shy away from maintaining our society just?

I don't actually get what your question means, you can't maintain just... you can maintain justice... is this what the question of the thread is?

Also it seems to be wandering slightly...

Surely we have trouble maintaining justice becasue we have trouble in speaking the Truth with confidence, and we feel that unless we are in a certain position in society, we will not influence justice.

I think that maintaining justice requires justice to be firmly established in the first place, and since the concept of justice in this world is marred by human compromises, we start from a position of a lack of justice in the first place.

 

[Sharp]

or our beliefs on others "by law" or as a state. During the Puritan days of our colonial heritage, some colony residents faced the same conditions. That is why we have a separation of religion from state today. If it had been God;s will for us to live with His will imposed on us by law, we wouldn't have free will.

There is no separation of religion from state in the US Constitution. There is only a restriction against state endorsement of an establishment of religion as in Europe.

The Puritan experiment had nothing to do with the First Amendment. We are free to make laws based upon our religious values. And churches and Christians may address political issues, endorse candidates, and participate in elections. (NOTE: The IRS would revoke the tax exempt status of churches that endorse, but that condition has existed in American history only since 1959!) There is no constitutional issue separating churches from influencing the state, only the other way around.

Hope this helps.

If you have questions about Church and State issues, read some of these excellent websites:
http://www.alliancedefensefund.org/
http://www.christianlaw.org/
http://www.aclj.org/
http://www.thomasmore.org/
http://www.becketfund.org/
http://www.rutherford.org/
http://www.pacificjustice.org/
http://www.clsnet.org/
http://www.lc.org/
http://www.libertylegal.org/
http://www.hslda.org/

 

[Eynes]

when church was the "state", or made the rules that affected the everday lives of the people. You "had" to be at bible study at a certain time, you "had' to have a bibile with you always, and on and on. This type of civil affairs did not settle right with others and they separated themselves from that group.

After having separated themselves from living under the rules of a church, it was decided, not during our consitutional period, but before it, that the governing board could not make rules concerning spiritual matters, and separated church from state. It was carried on into the constitutional convention and continued with state government conducting the affairs of a civil order and the church conducting the affairs of a spiritual order, both restricting from getting into the other's affairs.

Hence, the separation of church from state doctrine.

To tell you the truth, it is my belief there is no difference between the two. In both, you have to have faith. On the one side, it is in a democracy, where the nature of man is homogenized and distilled to set standards, on the other it is a spirit instilled by God.

In another level, they both have rules you live under, if you don't follow those rules, you'll go to jail, the other, to hell. And tell me, what is the difference between lawyers and priests/reverends?

I wouldn't want to be known as either one or the other.

And there are things that a church cannot do within the political arena, but it does not mean they cannot organize themselves into a political force, or as we know them, a political action committee.