Why do Christians get evasive, defensive or angry when faced with difficult questions

[kristina411]

I assume you believe God is a personal God, that impacts peoples lives on earth correct?

If so, wouldn't this God need to somehow be able to interact with our universe to be a personal God and how could he do so if he is outside of our universe?

Through His limitless power and through His Holy Spirit that was sent down to all who are willing to accept.

 

[talquin]

I already explained this.
X and y have the same variable. It may not apply to our idea of time, but God does not conform to our ideas, nor is The Creator of time bound by it.

I have answered your questions in each of my posts to you, read them please. I dont wish to be asked the same question repeatedly. You are free to disagree, but lets not play a dancing game.
Page 18, comment 175(I believe it was) I responded to this question as such:

Simple
Variable y and variable x have the same value.
You ask yourself, from a human limited even to the use of their own brain.
We are limited greatly by time. If it were not for time we would be much more open to ideas.
Take away the time in which God is aware of your choices and it makes your equation very much plausible.
We are assuming God understands on our time schedule. God understands today what happens tomorrow. But for all we know God could be in tomorrow already, if tomorrow exists at all with God.
Does he know before, during, or after? Was it known the moment the Earth gained form? Everyone has differing opinions and I doubt any two Christians would fully agree with each other in all of the ideas but I may be wrong. My idea would be that, since God is all knowing, even what is in our hearts more than we ourselves know, he is aware of our own choices before they are made on a different time scale than we are. We are limited even in our understanding of time.

So of these three, you must be saying either 1 or 2 is incorrect.

1) X (or God's knowledge as of day 1 of Fred's day 2 A/B choice) has a value of either A or B on day 1 and this value is fixed and cannot change. If it is A, it will remain A. If it is B, it willremain B. This follows the assertion that God has infallible knowledge of future events.

2) Y (or Fred’s day 2 A/B choice) receives its value on day 2. Once Y receives its value, it becomes locked. Prior to receiving its value, it could potentially become A or B, as Fred freely chooses A or B. This follows the assertion that Fred has free will or can freely make choices.

3) X is equal to Y. This follows the assertion that whatever Fred chooses is precisely the same as what God knew he would choose.

If God's knowledge is always in alignment with Fred's choice, then let's say variable X represents God's knowledge of Fred's day 2 A/B choice. IOW, if Fred chooses A, then variable X is = A. At the point in time of day 1, does variable X have a fixed and/or set value of either A or B?

 

[talquin]

Oh, I see you were asking for incorrect and not correct. My mistake.

1 and 2 are flawed because they assume time has the same meaning outside of our universe when time is only relevant to us, and only because of an expiration date.

So you're saying at point in time of day 1, no one has any knowledge of Fred's yet-to-be-made choices.

 

[kristina411]

So of these three, you must be saying either 1 or 2 is incorrect.

1) X (or God's knowledge as of day 1 of Fred's day 2 A/B choice) has a value of either A or B on day 1 and this value is fixed and cannot change. If it is A, it will remain A. If it is B, it willremain B. This follows the assertion that God has infallible knowledge of future events.

2) Y (or Fred’s day 2 A/B choice) receives its value on day 2. Once Y receives its value, it becomes locked. Prior to receiving its value, it could potentially become A or B, as Fred freely chooses A or B. This follows the assertion that Fred has free will or can freely make choices.

3) X is equal to Y. This follows the assertion that whatever Fred chooses is precisely the same as what God knew he would choose.

If God's knowledge is always in alignment with Fred's choice, then let's say variable X represents God's knowledge of Fred's day 2 A/B choice. IOW, if Fred chooses A, then variable X is = A. At the point in time of day 1, does variable X have a fixed and/or set value of either A or B?

You keep asking the same question hoping for different results. Its not gonna happen from my end unless we change up the question.
Unless you can take time out of your equation, you will not be able to grasp this.

 

[kristina411]

So you're saying at point in time of day 1, no one has any knowledge of Fred's yet-to-be-made choices.

No.

Please, if trying to understand what I am saying and not trying to run in circles, take the concept of time out of your ideas of Gods "limits"

 

[talquin]

No.

Please, if trying to understand what I am saying and not trying to run in circles, take the concept of time out of your ideas of Gods "limits"

You've contradicted yourself. First you say God's knowledge of Fred's day 2 A/B choice is always in alignment with Fred's choice - meaning variable X and variable Y are equivalent.

Now you're saying variable X has a value at points in time prior to when variable Y gets a value.

 

[kristina411]

You've contradicted yourself. First you say God's knowledge of Fred's day 2 A/B choice is always in alignment with Fred's choice - meaning variable X and variable Y are equivalent.

Now you're saying variable X has a value at points in time prior to when variable Y gets a value.

You are reaching and for that reason I will repeat myself one last time, as I have done countless times, to clear my name, and call this particular conversation to an end.

God is NOT in any way bound to our measurement of time, nor our laws of science or mathematics. So your equation is fully flawed.
It is like you are trying to take a humans weight with a measuring cup or ruler.

I have said from the get go that in order to understand you must take time out of the equation, and by saying that it is impossible for me to agree that time would be a part of the equation so you are clearly not paying attention or understanding what has been said.
So, if you wish to throw accusations, such as contradiction, I would suggest you know what you are saying first, or you at least understand what the other person is saying

Take care. Its a shame, I thought you would be willing to have a conversation without dancing.

 

[talquin]

You are reaching and for that reason I will repeat myself one last time, as I have done countless times, to clear my name, and call this particular conversation to an end.

God is NOT in any way bound to our measurement of time, nor our laws of science or mathematics. So your equation is fully flawed.
It is like you are trying to take a humans weight with a measuring cup or ruler.

I have said from the get go that in order to understand you must take time out of the equation, and by saying that it is impossible for me to agree that time would be a part of the equation so you are clearly not paying attention or understanding what has been said.
So, if you wish to throw accusations, such as contradiction, I would suggest you know what you are saying first, or you at least understand what the other person is saying

Take care. Its a shame, I thought you would be willing to have a conversation without dancing.

Perhaps we need to draw a timeline to help show what I'm talking about.

Variable X = God's knowledge of Fred's day 2 A/B choice
Variable Y = Fred's day 2 A/B choice

1) At day 1, if it is true that God knows what Fred's day 2 A/B choice will be, then variable X has a value. The value is either A or B
1a) Variable X could be A
1b) Variable X could be B

2) At day 2, variable Y receives a value - freely assigned by Fred.
2a) If Fred assigns variable Y the value of A and 1a is true, then there is no conflict
2b) If Fred assigns variable Y the value of A and 1b is true, then there is a conflict
2c) If Fred assigns variable Y the value of B and 1a is true, then there is a conflict
2d) If Fred assigns variable Y the value of B and 1b is true, then there is no conflict

 

[kristina411]

Perhaps we need to draw a timeline to help show what I'm talking about.

Your very first sentence that summed up your entire post is what you are having trouble with. God does not follow our timeline, there for to understand how He operates you can not restrict him to any timeline of this Universe.

I understand your equation, I am stating that your equation and concept of time is only enforced in our universe, not in God.

 

[talquin]

Your very first sentence that summed up your entire post is what you are having trouble with. God does not follow our timeline, there for to understand how He operates you can not restrict him to any timeline of this Universe.

I understand your equation, I am stating that your equation and concept of time is only enforced in our universe, not in God.

If I say "there are five dragons in my garage", does that mean:
1) there are always five dragons in my garage
2) there will be five dragons in my garage at some point in the future, but there are none at the moment the statement is made
3) there were once five dragons in my garage, but there are none at the moment the statement is made
4) there are five dragons in my garage at the moment the statement was made

 

[kristina411]

Of course statement four(according to our own world, not outside of this universe), but again when you are saying "at the exact time" you are restricting your knowledge to this world and nothing else possible. We defy our own knowledge and to use such inferior knowledge to try and understand what is so far outside of our intelligence field is pointless.

Your argument does not stand when God is not bound to time, you must accept that and stop repeating the question.

If you take time out of your question, your question is non existent. Remove time and you have your answer.

 

[talquin]

Duplicate post

 

[talquin]

Of course statement four(according to our own world, not outside of this universe), but again when you are saying "at the exact time" you are restricting your knowledge to this world and nothing else possible. We defy our own knowledge and to use such inferior knowledge to try and understand what is outside of our intelligence field is pointless.

Your argument does not stand when God is not bound to time, you must accept that and stop repeating the question.

If you take time out of your question, your question is non existent. Remove time and you have your answer.

Unless a statement specifies a time other than the present, it pertains to the present. E.g., if you say "I can juggle 20 tennis balls at once", if you don't specify something other than the present, then it means as of the moment you make the statement. Likewise, if one says "God knows what Fred's day 2 a/b choice will be", it means that assertion applies to only the point in time that such assertion is made. However, if you said "God always knows what Fred's day 2 a/b choice will be", then it would mean that God always knows what Fred's day 2 a/b choice will be.

However, if it's true on day 1 that God knows what Fred's day 2 a/b choice will be, then Fred could potentially choose something other than what God knows Fred will choose. That is true unless at point in time of day 1, God's knowledge of Fred's day 2 a/b choice (or variable X) doesn't have a truth value.

 

[kristina411]

Unless a statement specifies a time other than the present, it pertains to the present. E.g., if you say "I can juggle 20 tennis balls at once", if you don't specify something other than the present, then it means as of the moment you make the statement. Likewise, if one says "God knows what Fred's day 2 a/b choice will be", it means that assertion applies to only the point in time that such assertion is made. However, if you said "God always knows what Fred's day 2 a/b choice will be", then it would mean that God always knows what Fred's day 2 a/b choice will be.

However, if it's true on day 1 that God knows what Fred's day 2 a/b choice will be, then Fred could potentially choose something other than what God knows Fred will choose. That is true unless at point in time of day 1, God's knowledge of Fred's day 2 a/b choice (or variable X) doesn't have a truth value.

You are clearly not grasping the idea of timeless bounds, in which case this subject has stalled and cannot be continued.

 

[Cearbhall]

It's all about motive, there is nothing wrong with scholarly analysis of biblical documents.

The motive tends to be the pursuit of knowledge.

One could use such for good or for evil.

How is it either of those unless the person is lying? It's not good or evil any more than the scientific method is good or evil. It's just a way of finding truth, whatever that may be. Of course we all have personal biases that affect our work to some degree, but you don't just assume that a person's conclusions are false because of potential biases. You have to actually find evidence that the findings are false and that this was caused by the person's bias.

I believe Atheist exploit these findings for evil purposes; the undermining of faith in God.

Again, why? Have you found their findings to be intentionally false, or are you just prejudiced? You remind me of this Fox News interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQhMllQ-ODw

If you have an argument to counter his, then fine, but "He's an atheist" is not an argument. Nor is it evidence of anything.

 

[Cearbhall]

I'm divided on this. Saying that someone cannot function without theism could be construed as somewhat of an insult, like saying that they are too weak to cope with life absent some reassuring religion to coddle them.

I said "with." Teachings of Hell can be very destructive for people who already struggle with anxiety. Some people find that they can't lead a normal, happy life until they leave religion behind.

 

[Blue Wren]

I notice that when I ask some of the difficult questions, Christians tend to get evasive, defensive or angry. Why is this?

Which questions? Which Christians? I am a Swedish Christian. There are some basic shared beliefs, that of course, I share with all Christians. Many other things, they are a part of American Creationism, they have more to do with culture / politics / education "worldview", than actual Christianity, to me.

 

[Bumble Bee]

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[.Mikha'el.]

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