Why do Catholics call priest Father?

[ScottBot]

So, Christ commands us to eat his flesh and drink his blood, but that is a spiritual metaphor. He commands us to call no man father, but that is literal. Who gets to determine when Christ is speaking metaphorically and when He is speaking literally?

 

[IamGideon]

[bible]matthew 23:9[/bible]
you apparently haven't read through this entire thread. The meaning of that particular passage has been beaten to death.

Hehe...well why have we not understood it yet

Its basically the answer!

yep mat23:9

 

[Iollain]

So, Christ commands us to eat his flesh and drink his blood, but that is a spiritual metaphor. He commands us to call no man father, but that is literal. Who gets to determine when Christ is speaking metaphorically and when He is speaking literally?

That one is a wee bit more complex than this one, this one is simple.

 

[Iollain]

Mat 23:7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.


Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, [even] Christ; and all ye are brethren.


Mat 23:9 And call no [man] your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.


Mat 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, [even] Christ.


Mat 23:11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.


Mat 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.


What He is saying is , do not have the name of rabbi or father or master be called to you, your Brother, or Pastor, save the Father for the Holy Father.

 

[IamGideon]

That one is a wee bit more complex than this one, this one is simple.

 

[graysparrow]

AGAIN

Why do the apostles and writers of the NT (and OT) use repeatdely the word 'father' for human beings?

Are they disobeying Jesus 'simple' command?

 

[IamGideon]

AGAIN

Why do the apostles and writers of the NT (and OT) use repeatdely the word 'father' for human beings?

Are they disobeying Jesus 'simple' command?

Well if you could please quote or give a lil reference within context I might ponder this a lil further...

 

[graysparrow]

Well if you could please quote or give a lil reference within context I might ponder this a lil further...

(Mat 1:2 NET) Abraham was the father2 of Isaac, Isaac the father of Jacob, Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,

(Mat 1:3 NET) Judah the father of Perez and Zerah (by Tamar), Perez the father of Hezron, Hezron the father of Ram,

(Mat 1:4 NET) Ram the father of Amminadab, Amminadab the father of Nahshon, Nahshon the father of Salmon,

(Mat 1:5 NET) Salmon the father of Boaz (by Rahab), Boaz the father of Obed (by Ruth), Obed the father of Jesse,

(Mat 1:6 NET) and Jesse the father of David the king.
David was the father of Solomon (by the wife of Uriah3 ),

(Mat 1:7 NET) Solomon the father of Rehoboam, Rehoboam the father of Abijah, Abijah the father of Asa,4

(Mat 1:8 NET) Asa the father of Jehoshaphat, Jehoshaphat the father of Joram, Joram the father of Uzziah,

(Mat 1:9 NET) Uzziah the father of Jotham, Jotham the father of Ahaz, Ahaz the father of Hezekiah,

(Mat 1:10 NET) Hezekiah the father of Manasseh, Manasseh the father of Amon,5 Amon the father of Josiah,

(Mat 1:11 NET) and Josiah6 the father of Jeconiah and his brothers, at the time of the deportation to Babylon.

(Mat 1:12 NET) After7 the deportation to Babylon, Jeconiah became the father of Shealtiel,8 Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,

(Mat 1:13 NET) Zerubbabel the father of Abiud, Abiud the father of Eliakim, Eliakim the father of Azor,

(Mat 1:14 NET) Azor the father of Zadok, Zadok the father of Achim, Achim the father of Eliud,

(Mat 1:15 NET) Eliud the father of Eleazar, Eleazar the father of Matthan, Matthan the father of Jacob,

(Mat 1:16 NET) and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, by whom9 Jesus was born, who is called Christ.10

(Mat 2:22 NET) But when he heard that Archelaus36 was reigning over Judea in place of his father Herod,37 he was afraid to go there. After being warned in a dream, he went to the regions of Galilee.

(Mat 3:9 NET) and don't think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I tell you that God can raise up children for Abraham from these stones!

(Mat 4:21 NET) Going on from there he saw two other brothers, James the son of Zebedee and John his brother, in a boat32 with Zebedee their father, mending their nets. Then33 he called them.

(Mat 4:22 NET) They34 immediately left the boat and their father and followed him.

(Mat 7:11 NET) If you then, although you are evil,14 know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts15 to those who ask him!


(Mat 8:21 NET) Another39 of the40 disciples said to him, "Lord, let me first go and bury my father."


(Mat 10:21 NET) "Brother40 will hand over brother to death, and a father his child. Children will rise against41 parents and have them put to death.

(Mat 10:35 NET) For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law,

(Mat 10:37 NET) "Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.


(Mat 15:4 NET) For God said,8 'Honor your father and mother'9 and 'Whoever insults his father or mother must be put to death.'10

(Mat 15:5 NET) But you say, 'If someone tells his father or mother, "Whatever help you would have received from me is given to God,"11

(Mat 15:6 NET) he does not need to honor his father.'12 You have nullified the word of God on account of your tradition.


(Mat 19:5 NET) and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and will be united with his wife, and the two will become one flesh'?7

(Mat 19:19 NET) honor your father and mother, 21 and love your neighbor as yourself."22

(Mat 19:29 NET) And whoever has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much43 and will inherit eternal life.

(Mat 21:30 NET) The father45 went to the other son and said the same thing. This boy answered,46 'I will, sir,' but did not go.

(Mat 21:31 NET) Which of the two did his father's will?" They said, "The first."47 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth,48 tax collectors49 and prostitutes will go ahead of you into the kingdom of God!

(Mat 22:24 NET) "Teacher, Moses said, 'If a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and father children 28 for his brother.'29

(Mat 23:9 NET) And call no one your 'father' on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.


(Mar 7:10 NET) For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother,'14 and, 'Whoever insults his father or mother must be put to death.'15

(Mar 7:11 NET) But you say that if anyone tells his father or mother, 'Whatever help you would have received from me is corban'16 (that is, a gift for God),

(Mar 7:12 NET) then you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or mother.

(Mar 8:38 NET) For if anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him59 when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels."


(Mar 9:21 NET) Jesus32 asked his father, "How long has this been happening to him?" And he said, "From childhood.

(Mar 9:24 NET) Immediately the father of the boy cried out and said, "I believe; help my unbelief!"

(Mar 10:7 NET) For this reason a man will leave his father and mother, 14

(Mar 10:19 NET) You know the commandments: 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother.' "30

(Mar 10:29 NET) Jesus said, "I tell you the truth,50 there is no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for my sake and for the sake of the gospel

(Mar 11:10 NET) Blessed is the coming kingdom of our father David! Hosanna in the highest!"

(Mar 12:19 NET) "Teacher, Moses wrote for us: 'If a man's brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, that man 44 must marry 45 the widow and father children 46 for his brother.'47

(Mar 13:12 NET) Brother will hand over brother to death, and a father his child. Children will rise against19 parents and have them put to death.


(Mar 15:21 NET) The Crucifixion

The soldiers32 forced33 a passerby to carry his cross,34 Simon of Cyrene, who was coming in from the country35 (he was the father of Alexander and Rufus).

(Luk 1:32 NET) He104 will be great,105 and will be called the Son of the Most High,106 and the Lord God will give him the throne of his father107 David.

(Luk 1:59 NET) On178 the eighth day179 they came to circumcise the child, and they wanted to name180 him Zechariah after his father.

(Luk 1:62 NET) So188 they made signs to the baby's189 father,190 inquiring what he wanted to name his son.191

(Luk 1:67 NET) Zechariah's Praise and Prediction

Then206 his father Zechariah was filled with the Holy Spirit and prophesied,207

(Luk 2:33 NET) So94 the child's95 father96 and mother were amazed97 at what was said about him.


(Luk 3:8 NET) Therefore produce23 fruit24 that proves your repentance, and don't begin to say25 to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.'26 For I tell you that God can raise up children for Abraham from these stones!27

(Luk 6:36 NET) Be merciful,117 just as your Father is merciful.


(Luk 8:51 NET) Now when he came to the house, Jesus174 did not let anyone go in with him except Peter, John,175 and James, and the child's father and mother.

(Luk 9:42 NET) As143 the boy144 was approaching, the demon threw him to the ground145 and shook him with convulsions.146 But Jesus rebuked147 the unclean148 spirit, healed the boy, and gave him back to his father.

(Luk 9:59 NET) Jesus190 said to another, "Follow me." But he replied,191 "Lord, first let me go and bury my father."

(Luk 11:11 NET) What father among you, if your31 son asks for32 a fish, will give him a snake33 instead of a fish?

(Luk 11:13 NET) If you then, although you are35 evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit36 to those who ask him!"

(Luk 12:53 NET) They will be divided,134 father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."

(Luk 14:26 NET) "If anyone comes to me and does not hate86 his own father and mother, and wife and children, and brothers and sisters, and even his own life,87 he cannot be my disciple.



(Luk 16:24 NET) So75 he called out,76 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus77 to dip the tip of his finger78 in water and cool my tongue, because I am in anguish79 in this fire.'80

(Luk 16:27 NET) So86 the rich man87 said, 'Then I beg you, father — send Lazarus88 to my father's house

(Luk 16:30 NET) Then93 the rich man94 said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead95 goes to them, they will repent.'

(Luk 18:20 NET) You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.' "60

(Luk 20:28 NET) They asked him,69 "Teacher, Moses wrote for us that if a man's brother dies leaving a wife but no children, that man 70 must marry 71 the widow and father children 72 for his brother.73

(Luk 22:29 NET) Thus70 I grant71 to you a kingdom,72 just as my Father granted to me,

(Luk 22:42 NET) "Father, if you are willing, take109 this cup110 away from me. Yet not my will but yours111 be done."

(Luk 23:34 NET) [But Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they don't know what they are doing."]81 Then82 they threw dice 83 to divide his clothes.84

(Luk 23:46 NET) Then Jesus, calling out with a loud voice, said, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!"110 And after he said this he breathed his last.

(Luk 24:49 NET) And look, I am sending you122 what my Father promised.123 But stay in the city124 until you have been clothed with power125 from on high."


(Joh 1:14 NET) Now34 the Word became flesh35 and took up residence36 among us. We37 saw his glory — the glory of the one and only,38 full of grace and truth, who came from the Father.

(Joh 1:18 NET) No one has ever seen God. The only one,45 himself God, who is in closest fellowship with46 the Father, has made God47 known.48

(Joh 4:53 NET) Then the father realized that it was the very time113 Jesus had said to him, "Your son will live," and he himself believed along with his entire household.






(Act 7:4 NET) Then he went out from the country of the Chaldeans and settled in Haran. After his father died, God5 made him move6 to this country where you now live.

(Act 7:8 NET) Then God20 gave Abraham21 the covenant22 of circumcision, and so he became the father of Isaac and circumcised him when he was eight days old,23 and Isaac became the father of24 Jacob, and Jacob of the twelve patriarchs.25

(Act 7:14 NET) So Joseph sent a message38 and invited39 his father Jacob and all his relatives to come, seventy-five people40 in all.

(Act 7:20 NET) At that time Moses was born, and he was beautiful55 to God. For56 three months he was brought up in his father's house,

(Act 7:29 NET) When the man said this,80 Moses fled and became a foreigner81 in the land of Midian, where he became the father of two sons.

and I had to stop somewhere

 

[IamGideon]

hmm...good point..lol...

though there is only reference made to old testament they are simply refering to what was written previously but they make no mention of calling théir own biological fathers father. Besides Jesus changed many of the ways of looking at certain things i.e. turn the other cheek..pray for thos ewho persecute you...etc...So hear He gives a command in mat23:9 saying Do not call anyone father for you have only one father.

 

[Tonks]

Well if you could please quote or give a lil reference within context I might ponder this a lil further...

The wider point, I think, is what prompted Christ to issue the statement in the first place. Properly drawing out the meaning of the passage within its context, Jesus was discouraging His followers from elevating the scribes and Pharisees to the titles of “fathers” and “rabbis” because they were hypocrites. Jesus warns us not to elevate anyone to the level of our heavenly Father.

The meaning is that our Father in heaven is incomparably more to be regarded, than any father upon earth: and no master to be followed, who would lead us away from Christ. But this does not hinder but that we are by the law of God to have a due respect both for our parents and spiritual fathers and for our masters and teachers.

 

[graysparrow]

hmm...good point..lol...

though there is only reference made to old testament they are simply refering to what was written previously but they make no mention of calling théir own biological fathers father. Besides Jesus changed many of the ways of looking at certain things i.e. turn the other cheek..pray for thos ewho persecute you...etc...So hear He gives a command in mat23:9 saying Do not call anyone father for you have only one father.

Actually there are all NT references, and there are more

 

[graysparrow]

Eph 6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.

Eph 6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

Col 3:20 Children, obey [your] parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord.

Col 3:21 Fathers, provoke not your children [to anger], lest they be discouraged.

1Th 2:7 But we were gentle among you, even as a nurse cherisheth her children:

1Th 2:11 As ye know how we exhorted and comforted and charged every one of you, as a father [doth] his children,

 

[Iollain]

The wider point, I think, is what prompted Christ to issue the statement in the first place. Properly drawing out the meaning of the passage within its context, Jesus was discouraging His followers from elevating the scribes and Pharisees to the titles of “fathers” and “rabbis” because they were hypocrites. Jesus warns us not to elevate anyone to the level of our heavenly Father.

The meaning is that our Father in heaven is incomparably more to be regarded, than any father upon earth: and no master to be followed, who would lead us away from Christ. But this does not hinder but that we are by the law of God to have a due respect both for our parents and spiritual fathers and for our masters and teachers.

That has nothing to do with elevating to the status of God, it is so simple, do not call anyone by the name of Father, that is for God.

 

[graysparrow]

1Jo 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1Jo 2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

1Jo 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him [that is] from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

 

[Qoheleth]

So hear He gives a command in mat23:9 saying Do not call anyone father for you have only one father.

Just a few that had been referenced here earlier, specifically NT...


1 Corinthians 4:14-15 I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. 15 For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

1 John 2:13-14 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, children, because you know the Father. 14 I write to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

Philemon 1:10 I appeal to you for my child, Ones'imus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment.

Acts 7:2 And Stephen said: "Brethren and fathers, hear me. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopota'mia, before he lived in Haran,

Romans 9:10 And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac;


Q

 

[graysparrow]

1Ti 5:1 Rebuke not an elder, but intreat [him] as a father; [and] the younger men as brethren;

(BLB)

[1] Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren; KJV

 

[Iollain]

Just a few that had been referenced here earlier, specifically NT...


1 Corinthians 4:14-15 I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. 15 For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

1 John 2:13-14 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, children, because you know the Father. 14 I write to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

Philemon 1:10 I appeal to you for my child, Ones'imus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment.

Acts 7:2 And Stephen said: "Brethren and fathers, hear me. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopota'mia, before he lived in Haran,

Romans 9:10 And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac;


Q

That is great, but we do not call them, when we see them, father.

 

[Iollain]

1Ti 5:1 Rebuke not an elder, but intreat [him] as a father; [and] the younger men as brethren;

(BLB)

[1] Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren; KJV

Treat him as a father, not call him father by title. When you see him, you don't say, 'Hey father John, by title'......father in the faith, sure, father in age , sure, but not for a title.

 

[Nickolai]

So hear (sic) He gives a command in mat23:9 saying Do not call anyone father for you have only one father.

Which He uses hyperbolically to say that we arn't to put others in the Father's (God the Father) place. That is, not to worship them as they are God the Father.

When Orthodox, Catholics, Anglicans, and even some Lutherans use the Term "father" in referance to their Pastors, they use the term out of humility. They are putting their Spiritual life in the hands of that pastor. Who in turn are in a great sense "fathering" them in the Faith. This is the same way St. Paul used the term in 1 Cor whaen he said "For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the Gospel".

In Christ,
Reader Nikolai

 

[Iollain]

Mat 23:7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.


Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, [even] Christ; and all ye are brethren.


Mat 23:9 And call no [man] your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.


Mat 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, [even] Christ.


Mat 23:11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.


Mat 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.


Nickolai, Jesus's commandments here has nothing to do with thinking of someone as God.