Why do atheists seem to obsess over something they don't believe in?

[Eudaimonist]

Atheists seem to obsess over religion because:

1. Some of them do, though it might not be many

2. Those who do are much more likely to let you know they're atheists. It could be that most atheists don't care very much about religion, so they keep quiet about it and you never learn they're atheists.

Agreed.

My impression is that the 20/80 rule applies. 20% of the atheists make 80% of the complaints about religion.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Dave RP]

I am just surprisingly overwhelmed by the number of athiests and agnostics on Christian Forums. I'm not hating you for it, go head, do you! I was just wondering...why?

I don't believe in Buddha. But you don't see me arguing over him for hours, talking about him, thinking about him... I don't believe in Allah. But you don't see me arguing over him for hours, thinking about him, convincing others he's not true. I don't believe in Zeus or the other gods from mythology, but you don't see me on a Mythology Forum arguing why it's not true, spending hours debating over something I don't believe.

So why do atheists? I don't have any numbers, but from my observations over the years it seems like atheists are so... fired-up when it comes to disproving God. Why bother? If you don't believe it's true then why spend so much time, emotion, and energy convincing others you're right? To the point where you come to a Christian Forum? Why? What benefit are you receiving? Why not just be okay with it, "I don't believe in God, now I'm going to live my life." Why do you have to argue about Him all the time to the point to where it seems all you think about is how He's not real?

It seems so pointless. So, overall, why? Do you feel like it's your moral duty to try and convince the billions of people you're right? Is it the right thing to do in your eyes?

I just find it crazy how emotional atheists are over trying to debunk something they don't believe in, not specifically people on these forums but outside of it too.
Who are you trying to convince more, us or yourself?

From my point of view I see religion as one of the most bizarre things I witness in my everyday life so I wanted to see what were the thoughts of the Christian community (if such a thing exists).

In Britain old style Christian religion is dying, church attendances are continuing to diminish and we are fast becoming a christian society through history or tradition only. Only Islam is increasing in popularity, driven largely by immigration and the fact that immigrants, initially at least, have larger families.

Does that matter?

Personally I think not, but some are worried by Britain becoming a non believing nation and I just thought I'd see what makes believers tick. I would never seek to dissuade people from their beliefs or to persuade them they are wrong, belief is a personal thing and should remain so, what is critically important in my opinion is that EVERYONE respects everyone else's right to believe in whatever they want, provided they live by the laws of the land.

Unfortunately some religions, and some sections of Christianity and Islam believe it is essential to persuade others to convert to their beliefs and I think that is wrong.

 

[Holoman]

From my point of view I see religion as one of the most bizarre things I witness in my everyday life so I wanted to see what were the thoughts of the Christian community (if such a thing exists).

In Britain old style Christian religion is dying, church attendances are continuing to diminish and we are fast becoming a christian society through history or tradition only. Only Islam is increasing in popularity, driven largely by immigration and the fact that immigrants, initially at least, have larger families.

Does that matter?

Personally I think not, but some are worried by Britain becoming a non believing nation and I just thought I'd see what makes believers tick. I would never seek to dissuade people from their beliefs or to persuade them they are wrong, belief is a personal thing and should remain so, what is critically important in my opinion is that EVERYONE respects everyone else's right to believe in whatever they want, provided they live by the laws of the land.

Unfortunately some religions, and some sections of Christianity and Islam believe it is essential to persuade others to convert to their beliefs and I think that is wrong.

I'm from the UK too and to me the thought of atheists being discriminated against seems quite foreign to me, though I believe that it does happen in the US. It never happens here if anything it is the other way around.

But why is it wrong to try and persuade people to join your religion? I can imagine you find it annoying, but wrong? Imagine you believed in God and that everyone who you brought over to him would be saved or else suffer damnation. Surely trying to convince other people of this is the greatest act of kindness you can give them?

 

[bhsmte]

I'm from the UK too and to me the thought of atheists being discriminated against seems quite foreign to me, though I believe that it does happen in the US. It never happens here if anything it is the other way around.

But why is it wrong to try and persuade people to join your religion? I can imagine you find it annoying, but wrong? Imagine you believed in God and that everyone who you brought over to him would be saved or else suffer damnation. Surely trying to convince other people of this is the greatest act of kindness you can give them?

I have no problem with your last paragraph, if it is attempted with a level of respect.

You see, so many who attempt to do what you state, will start with something like this; you are being led by evil, you will be going to hell if you don't agree with me and by the way, I am more moral than you because you have no reason to live a moral life.

Also, very few atheists on this board will claim, they can never be wrong and there may be a God, but few Christians will state; I could be wrong and there is no God. This sort of takes the credibility away from these folks, when they come at you in an irrational way.

 

[Holoman]

I have no problem with your last paragraph, if it is attempted with a level of respect.

You see, so many who attempt to do what you state, will start with something like this; you are being led by evil, you will be going to hell if you don't agree with me and by the way, I am more moral than you because you have no reason to live a moral life.

Also, very few atheists on this board will claim, they can never be wrong and there may be a God, but few Christians will state; I could be wrong and there is no God. This sort of takes the credibility away from these folks, when they come at you in an irrational way.

Yes I can believe that, plenty of judgemental people around, I come across them all the time even had one woman reprimand me for daring to eat a sweet in a church.

You get the crazies but there are also some people that genuinely have no doubt in their mind that God exists. Some may of course just be lying to themselves, but others may have faith through a miraculous event or because it is all they have ever known, they believe like they believe in gravity, because they see it every day.

 

[bhsmte]

Yes I can believe that, plenty of judgemental people around, I come across them all the time even had one woman reprimand me for daring to eat a sweet in a church.

You get the crazies but there are also some people that genuinely have no doubt in their mind that God exists. Some may of course just be lying to themselves, but others may have faith through a miraculous event or because it is all they have ever known, they believe like they believe in gravity, because they see it every day.

IMO, when someone can admit, there is a possibility they may be wrong (even if it is remote) it is sign of a healthy mind. Since faith beliefs really don't have objective evidence to support them, many who have faith beliefs, need to convince themselves they are 100% certain, to ward off any deep thoughts of doubt they may have.

 

[Holoman]

IMO, when someone can admit, there is a possibility they may be wrong (even if it is remote) it is sign of a healthy mind. Since faith beliefs really don't have objective evidence to support them,

Well that's not true, I know people whose faith is based on the evidence of miraculous events that have happened to them. Of course no evidence is ever good enough for atheists because of the defences of 'coincidence' and 'just because we can't explain it doesn't mean there isn't an explanation' which would explain away even a flying unicorn.

many who have faith beliefs, need to convince themselves they are 100% certain, to ward off any deep thoughts of doubt they may have.

Some probably do, but others truly believe there is no doubt.

 

[bhsmte]

Well that's not true, I know people whose faith is based on the evidence of miraculous events that have happened to them. Of course no evidence is ever good enough for atheists because of the defences of 'coincidence' and 'just because we can't explain it doesn't mean there isn't an explanation' which would explain away even a flying unicorn.



Some probably do, but others truly believe there is no doubt.

The question would be; why does one need to feel there is no doubt.

That is where it gets interesting. You see, I don't really care what someone believes or don't believe, it is the justification they give for their belief, which is very interesting to me.

And I will add, nothing wrong with faith beliefs, as they may be the best thing for a person and it gives them hope and makes them a better person. For those that abuse their faith beliefs (and some do), it comes down to them needing to identify their faith belief as something, because it allows them to justify behavior, that may be to judge others who disagree with them, in a negative way.

 

[Holoman]

The question would be; why does one need to feel there is no doubt.

That is where it gets interesting. You see, I don't really care what someone believes or don't believe, it is the justification they give for their belief, which is very interesting to me.

And I will add, nothing wrong with faith beliefs, as they may be the best thing for a person and it gives them hope and makes them a better person. For those that abuse their faith beliefs (and some do), it comes down to them needing to identify their faith belief as something, because it allows them to justify behavior, that may be to judge others who disagree with them, in a negative way.

Well I dont personally believe that you need to feel there is no doubt, but you could argue that faith with doubt isn't really faith.

 

[bhsmte]

Well I dont personally believe that you need to feel there is no doubt, but you could argue that faith with doubt isn't really faith.

This is where we disagree.

Depending on one's personal psychology, one may have a strong need to convince themselves they are 100% correct, with zero chance they could be wrong and to attack those who disagree and to also use defense mechanisms to protect their personal belief at all costs.

The above types are very obvious on these boards and are typically the ones who need to deny well evidenced reality, because in conflicts with their personal faith beliefs. Also, I have met several Christians on this board who will say; there is a chance they could be wrong, but they do believe they are right. The one's that are willing to admit this, are typically the same type, that do not ignore well evidenced reality and are able to reconcile the same, with their faith belief.

 

[lupusFati]

I am just surprisingly overwhelmed by the num-

Yeah, I'm going to stop you there. Because I know you're going to argue that "Why does it matter what we believe in unless you're just trying to convince yourselves blah blah blah" or something similar.

I'm not an atheist as I believe there may be a god or gods out there (basically not sure, still working on that). But you cannot say that Christianity has no effect on those who do not believe, especially if you live in the USA. Like it or not, Christianity (and those in office who profess to be Christian, emphasis on profess) has power which is constantly abused. A certain ruling I cannot specify due to the forum rules only happened recently, even though it really shouldn't have been an issue, solely because of the idea of a 'traditional' stance on it, because 'the bible tells me so'. Much of the discrimination I am bound to face in my life originates from the Bible, and it will not be used to instruct or "help" me but instead to hurt, abuse, and otherwise label me as sub-human. Christianity affects me, whether I believe in it or not, simply because of those who impose their beliefs on us.

So go ahead and say we're trying to convince ourselves it's not real, that that is why we are obsessed with it. If Christianity had no power over me, I wouldn't even give it the time of day. But it does, so I have to acknowledge that.

In short, check yourself before you wreck yourself.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Of course no evidence is ever good enough for atheists because of the defences of 'coincidence' and 'just because we can't explain it doesn't mean there isn't an explanation' which would explain away even a flying unicorn.

That's not so obvious to me. We can know that there are flying birds, why not flying unicorns? It should be possible to successfully build a case for this, but it would have to be based on more than someone's say so. New species are discovered, and well documented, every year.

The problem isn't that "no evidence is ever good enough", but that the sort of evidence inevitably given by believers is not good at supporting their case. It is either highly subjective, impossible to verify, or easily debunked.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Dave RP]

I'm from the UK too and to me the thought of atheists being discriminated against seems quite foreign to me, though I believe that it does happen in the US. It never happens here if anything it is the other way around.

But why is it wrong to try and persuade people to join your religion? I can imagine you find it annoying, but wrong? Imagine you believed in God and that everyone who you brought over to him would be saved or else suffer damnation. Surely trying to convince other people of this is the greatest act of kindness you can give them?

Good Morning,

In my opinion it is wrong to try to persuade others to join your religion because there are hundreds of religions, and they all believe they have somehow stumbled (or been led by God) to the truth. Therefore conflict is inevitable, hence some Sunni/ Shia Muslims are in conflict, Protestant/ Catholic animosity still causes fear and suspicion in parts of the world. If you want to persuade me that YOUR version of God is correct and will save me you will inevitably get into conflict (albeit not necessarily violent conflict) with someone from another faith group.

I therefore consider it to be better that religion stays within and everyone respects everyone else's right to a religious belief, or none at all. After all, not every religion can be right, although all believe they are.

 

[KCfromNC]

The problem isn't that "no evidence is ever good enough", but that the sort of evidence inevitably given by believers is not good at supporting their case. It is either highly subjective, impossible to verify, or easily debunked.

And typically the sort that believers also reject when it is used as "proof" for the wrong kind of god.

 

[keith99]

And typically the sort that believers also reject when it is used as "proof" for the wrong kind of god.

Which leads to an excellent way of describing a reasonable level of proof.

Show me evidence for your god that if given for some other god would be good enough to convince you to change gods.

 

[Wryetui]

Personally, I find the presence of atheists here an insult towards God. The fact that in a christian forum where God should be praised and loved by everyone we let these people come here to "debate" us and to put to question our beliefs like they have any right to do it is something that God dislikes a lot, plus the fact that a lot of believers here fall because of their weak faith into the jaws of the devils and their souls get corrupted.

I am not saying that you don't have the right to post here or anything, but I would only agree you to post here if you are willing to learn, and from what I have seen, there is no single atheist here that really wants to learn something from christianity, but only to ridiculize "religion" and our sacred theology like it is something they have the right to do, posting degradating pictures and quotes on their signatures.

If a christian wants to learn about atheism with all their hearts let they go to an atheist forum, if an atheist is willing to respectfuly learn something about our Holy and Divine religion let them be, but only if they really want to learn, not to "debate" in order to drag more souls into the perdition they are in.

But, of course, this is only my opinion and I don't mean to offend anyone.

 

[Dave RP]

Personally, I find the presence of atheists here an insult towards God. The fact that in a christian forum where God should be praised and loved by everyone we let these people come here to "debate" us and to put to question our beliefs like they have any right to do it is something that God dislikes a lot, plus the fact that a lot of believers here fall because of their weak faith into the jaws of the devils and their souls get corrupted.

I am not saying that you don't have the right to post here or anything, but I would only agree you to post here if you are willing to learn, and from what I have seen, there is no single atheist here that really wants to learn something from christianity, but only to ridiculize "religion" and our sacred theology like it is something they have the right to do, posting degradating pictures and quotes on their signatures.

If a christian wants to learn about atheism with all their hearts let they go to an atheist forum, if an atheist is willing to respectfuly learn something about our Holy and Divine religion let them be, but only if they really want to learn, not to "debate" in order to drag more souls into the perdition they are in.

But, of course, this is only my opinion and I don't mean to offend anyone.

I can see your point but this section is on philosophy, so a debate between believers and non believers is valid, surely.

I agree that some non believers are unnecessarily aggressive to the point of being rude and disrespectful, that is wrong.

I see a debate about certain matters from a Christian point of view compared to another non believers point of view as interesting, and shouldn't be a threat to either party.

Personally I would not ever attempt to persuade a boever that they're wrong, as I'm sure a catholic wouldn't try to persuade a Protestant or babysit or whether different branch of Christianity that they're wrong. And I certainly wouldn't insult you God or your belief in your God.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Personally, I find the presence of atheists here an insult towards God.

The more important question is whether he finds it insulting. So far, he hasn't spoken up about it so it's hard to tell.

The fact that in a christian forum where God should be praised and loved by everyone we let these people come here to "debate" us and to put to question our beliefs like they have any right to do it is something that God dislikes a lot, plus the fact that a lot of believers here fall because of their weak faith into the jaws of the devils and their souls get corrupted.

Is this God speaking or you speaking?

I am not saying that you don't have the right to post here or anything, but I would only agree you to post here if you are willing to learn, and from what I have seen, there is no single atheist here that really wants to learn something from christianity, but only to ridiculize "religion" and our sacred theology like it is something they have the right to do, posting degradating pictures and quotes on their signatures.

There is a Christian-Only section. If you find our presence to loathsome, feel free to post there exclusively.

If a christian wants to learn about atheism with all their hearts let they go to an atheist forum, if an atheist is willing to respectfuly learn something about our Holy and Divine religion let them be, but only if they really want to learn, not to "debate" in order to drag more souls into the perdition they are in.

Let's be clear. When you talk about "our holy and divine religion," you are talking about Orthodoxy and Orthodoxy only. I've seen you accuse other Christians of adhering to heretical doctrines. So when you are talking about "learning something about our holy and divine religion," you mean learning about your religion, not Catholicism or any Protestant denomination.

But, of course, this is only my opinion and I don't mean to offend anyone.

I thought it was God's opinion?

 

[Wryetui]

The more important question is whether he finds it insulting. So far, he hasn't spoken up about it so it's hard to tell.

Is this God speaking or you speaking?

There is a Christian-Only section. If you find our presence to loathsome, feel free to post there exclusively.

Let's be clear. When you talk about "our holy and divine religion," you are talking about Orthodoxy and Orthodoxy only. I've seen you accuse other Christians of adhering to heretical doctrines. So when you are talking about "learning something about our holy and divine religion," you mean learning about your religion, not Catholicism or any Protestant denomination.

I thought it was God's opinion?

No, Orthodoxy isn't a religion but a denomination within a major religion called christianity, and here I was talking about christianity, the religion we share the vast majority of members from this forum. Yes, Orthodoxy represents the fullness of the Church and I believe it because everything supports it, everyone willing to learn can learn.

Yes, God finds your behavior insulting. If I were God (may God forgive me for this blasphemous comparation), I wouldn't like people who don't believe in me neither what my Son did for the redemption of them, my children to come in a place where those who believe in me gather and to try to take them away from me, saying I don't exist, the religion I gave to humanity is a lie, the Books I inspired are fake and my Church is corrupted. Everyone with a little common sense would have noticed this, so asking wether God finds this offending or not is pretty naive, if you enter to my house to spread lies and insults about me I would be offended.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Yes, God finds your behavior insulting.

And yet the only one complaining is you.