Why do atheists seem to obsess over something they don't believe in?

[bhsmte]

Athiest like you are the reason I have hope for atheists. It all comes down to belief in the end. The question is will you continue to believe God does not exist or will you believe what makes the most sense.

What the future holds, depends on the knowledge I accumulate and how I can reconcile that knowledge with the universe.

 

[Davian]

Obviously you didn't see my response to Eudamonist correcting myself and apologising because you were too busy searching for that picture in order to ridiculize me and to look superior than me by doing it.

Or, I was reading the posts in chronological order. But, if you wish to think ill of others, rather than give them the benefit of the doubt, you do that.

 

[Chriliman]

I really like your attitude towards this topic Chriliman. I think the world would be a better place if more people adopted that mindset.

Let the truth speak for itself.

There wouldn't be any need for the kind of public proselytizing that I frankly find disgusting. It's not as if you see atheists at college campuses ranting and raving about how there isn't a god. It's not like we line up outside abortion clinics screaming at young women facing a difficult choice.

Taken to it's logical extent, if people shared your attitude...they wouldn't even take their children to church. They'd simply not teach them about religion until their old enough to understand and then they'd teach them about multiple religions....let the child decide for himself/herself what to believe. After all, if the truth speaks for itself...all they'll need to do is seek out the truth and they should arrive at the correct conclusion.

Truth has to be expressed by people, problem is expressing perfect truth with an imperfect person isn't easy and it gets messy. It's like sending a perfect diamond through a meat grinder. The meat grinder will get broken and messed up but the diamond will still be perfect. The meet grinder will then submit to the perfect diamond and be made perfect. Essentially what I'm saying is humanity is like a meat grinder that thinks it can destroy the truth of Jesus, when in realty the truth of Jesus is going to destroy humanity and those that submit to this truth will be made perfect just like Jesus.

Now you may say that religion will destroy humanity and I can see why you might think that, but ultimately your an athiest so in the end why do you care what happens to humanity when if there is no God, entropy will eventually take its full effect and there will be essentially nothing in the universe and when this happens why does anything you do matter?

I do care deeply for humanity to come to the truth of Jesus and take the free gift of eternal life! If I didn't believe there was a free gift of eternal life for everyone to have, I wouldn't be so passionate about spreading this good news! This is exactly why you see so many Christians out there trying to spread this news the best way they can. We are empowered by something far and beyond ourselves to love and care for others. This is the only thing that keeps humanity from self destruction. Does any part of this not make sense to you?

God bless!

 

[Ana the Ist]

Truth has to be expressed by people, problem is expressing perfect truth with an imperfect person isn't easy and it gets messy. It's like sending a perfect diamond through a meat grinder. The meat grinder will get broken and messed up but the diamond will still be perfect. The meet grinder will then submit to the perfect diamond and be made perfect. Essentially what I'm saying is humanity is like a meat grinder that thinks it can destroy the truth of Jesus, when in realty the truth of Jesus is going to destroy humanity and those that submit to this truth will be made perfect just like Jesus.

Now you may say that religion will destroy humanity and I can see why you might think that, but ultimately your an athiest so in the end why do you care what happens to humanity when if there is no God, entropy will eventually take its full effect and there will be essentially nothing in the universe and when this happens why does anything you do matter?

I do care deeply for humanity to come to the truth of Jesus and take the free gift of eternal life! If I didn't believe there was a free gift of eternal life for everyone to have, I wouldn't be so passionate about spreading this good news! This is exactly why you see so many Christians out there trying to spread this news the best way they can. We are empowered by something far and beyond ourselves to love and care for others. This is the only thing that keeps humanity from self destruction. Does any part of this not make sense to you?

God bless!

The diamond and the meat grinder analogy doesn't make much sense to me lol...but that's not that important. It's your particular view of the truth and you're entitled to it, even if I think it's wrong.

As for why things matter to me, it's quite simple really...this is all I have. I don't believe in any afterlife or second life or eternal life...so all I can do is make the most of the limited time have. Quite honestly, I think the things that matter to me now would matter much less if I thought I would be eternal.

Speaking of eternity...I've given it plenty of thought, and I wouldn't want it. It sounds awful...even if I were "perfect" (especially if I were perfect)...I would reject it if it were a choice, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

 

[MehGuy]

I post here out of habit.

Don't even talk about God 99.99% of the time.

I honestly forget that this is a Christian forum.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

The best way to speak with atheist, agnostics and humanist, is to not assume they have an agenda, but rather ask them honest questions and really get down to the bottom of their reasoning, then give them sound reasons that make sense for why you believe in God. Let them make their own assumptions from there, but try not to assume anything about them. Ultimately the truth will speak for itself, no assumptions needed.

God bless!

Good suggestions. The same goes for speaking with Christians and other religious folk: we shouldn't assume we know exactly what they believe. That's why it's always necessary to ask.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I think it is perfectly reasonable for a christian to say they believe in a God based on faith and I have no issues with that and will never question it.

I only challenge them, when the following occurs and it happens quite often on this site:

-The christian claims they are morally superior to me
-The christian claims I can have no meaning to my life without believing in God
-The christian claims to have objective evidence to support their belief in a God
-The christian claims I have not looked hard enough for God and I am being led by evil
-The christian intentionally misrepresents well evidenced reality, in order to protect their belief

If they can stay away from the above, it is perfectly reasonable to have a faith belief in a God and it may be the best thing for that particular person, if it helps them live a better life.

Disagreements arise when the theist claims that we are intellectually obligated to endorse their theological commitments and that we are being unreasonable for not doing so.

 

[Chriliman]

Disagreements arise when the theist claims that we are intellectually obligated to endorse their theological commitments and that we are being unreasonable for not doing so.

Sound reason either leads to belief in God or leads to non-belief in God, so what's the difference? Christians believe faith, hope and love come from God, but athiests believe faith, hope and love come from something before the Big Bang. Ultimately there both right, but one is missing the complete picture. But if the complete picture is anything other than God, then what's the point of faith hope and love? Maybe instead of asking why, we should be asking who.

 

[Chriliman]

The diamond and the meat grinder analogy doesn't make much sense to me lol...but that's not that important. It's your particular view of the truth and you're entitled to it, even if I think it's wrong.

As for why things matter to me, it's quite simple really...this is all I have. I don't believe in any afterlife or second life or eternal life...so all I can do is make the most of the limited time have. Quite honestly, I think the things that matter to me now would matter much less if I thought I would be eternal.

Speaking of eternity...I've given it plenty of thought, and I wouldn't want it. It sounds awful...even if I were "perfect" (especially if I were perfect)...I would reject it if it were a choice, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

But what if you had no choice but to exist forever? Would you choose a happy existence free of pain or would you choose a painful existence with no relief from the pain? And actually if you consider the primacy of existence principle it implies that your consciousness exists and this is an unalterable truth, so in order for your consciousness to not exist it would have to contradict it's own existence. So this implies that your consciousness will last forever.

I think it's much more difficult to believe in existing forever because it means you will be held accountable for what you've done in life. It's much easier to believe you will cease to exist, even though this would contradict the unalterable truth that you exist . The primacy of existence principle confirms this unalterable truth. What the primacy of existence principle fails to do is take into account an infinite timeless entity that would simultaneously exist and be consciouse all at once.

 

[Ana the Ist]

But what if you had no choice but to exist forever? Would you choose a happy existence free of pain or would you choose a painful existence with no relief from the pain? And actually if you consider the primacy of existence principle it implies that your consciousness exists and this is an unalterable truth, so in order for your consciousness to not exist it would have to contradict it's own existence. So this implies that your consciousness will last forever.

I think it's much more difficult to believe in existing forever because it means you will be held accountable for what you've done in life. It's much easier to believe you will cease to exist, even though this would contradict the unalterable truth that you exist . The primacy of existence principle confirms this unalterable truth. What the primacy of existence principle fails to do is take into account an infinite timeless entity that would simultaneously exist and be consciouse all at once.

I've never heard of any "primacy of existence" principle.

My consciousness exists...but it wasn't always so. For a long long time it didn't exist. I refer to this period as "before I was born". Your consciousness didn't exist at one time also.

Here's the part that you don't want to believe...but it's true, so I'll tell you anyway. After you're dead, your consciousness won't exist again. It's a tough pill to swallow, but you'll get over it.

 

[Chriliman]

I've never heard of any "primacy of existence" principle.

My consciousness exists...but it wasn't always so. For a long long time it didn't exist. I refer to this period as "before I was born". Your consciousness didn't exist at one time also.

Here's the part that you don't want to believe...but it's true, so I'll tell you anyway. After you're dead, your consciousness won't exist again. It's a tough pill to swallow, but you'll get over it.

I agree my consciousness hasn't always existed, it was brought into existence. And according to the primacy of existence principal it will exist forever, or else it would have to contradict it's own existence in order to not exist anymore. Apparently you still have some learning to do and questions to answer, just remember to be honest and the truth will find you

 

[quatona]

I agree my consciousness hasn't always existed, it was brought into existence. And according to the primacy of existence principal it will exist forever, or else it would have to contradict it's own existence in order to not exist anymore.

Could you explain how you get from "primacy of existence principle" to "my consciouslness will exist forever - assuming this is meant to follow logically?

 

[Chriliman]

Could you explain how you get from "primacy of existence principle" to "my consciouslness will exist forever - assuming this is meant to follow logically?

Sure, if existence exists before human consciousness then this means it's an unalterable truth that we are consciouse, meaning our consciousness has no primacy over the fact that we're conscious, therefore it is unalterably true that we are consciouse and unalterable truth would have to contradict itself in order for our consciousness to cease to exist.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Sure, if existence exists before human consciousness then this means it's an unalterable truth that we are consciouse, meaning our consciousness has no primacy over the fact that we're conscious, therefore it is unalterably true that we are consciouse and unalterable truth would have to contradict itself in order for our consciousness to cease to exist.

That makes no sense as a conclusion whatsoever. There is no contradiction in consciousness ceasing to exist.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[quatona]

Sure, if existence exists before human consciousness then this means it's an unalterable truth that we are consciouse, meaning our consciousness has no primacy over the fact that we're conscious, therefore it is unalterably true that we are consciouse and unalterable truth would have to contradict itself in order for our consciousness to cease to exist.

Whut?

 

[Davian]

Whut?

I think he has confused irrefutable with incomprehensible.

 

[Chriliman]

That makes no sense as a conclusion whatsoever. There is no contradiction in consciousness ceasing to exist.


eudaimonia,

Mark

So you don't believe consciousness would still exist even if you became unconscious? If you don't believe this then you must believe your consciousness is the reason everything exists.

 

[Chriliman]

Whut?

Do you believe consciousness would still exist even if you became unconsciouse? If so then you must believe consciousness is an unalterable truth, just like the fact that the earth orbits the sun is an unalterable truth.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I agree my consciousness hasn't always existed, it was brought into existence. And according to the primacy of existence principal it will exist forever, or else it would have to contradict it's own existence in order to not exist anymore. Apparently you still have some learning to do and questions to answer, just remember to be honest and the truth will find you

After a quick read of the primacy of existence principle, it's rather obvious that you don't understand it.

It doesn't say that your consciousness will exist forever.

 

[quatona]

Do you believe consciousness would still exist even if you became unconsciouse? If so then you must believe consciousness is an unalterable truth, just like the fact that the earth orbits the sun is an unalterable truth.

Your logic is, say, adorable.