Why do atheists seem to obsess over something they don't believe in?

[Colter]

I'm not so sure about truth....

...but for the rest of your list, are you saying things like goodness and beauty exist independent of human perception?

Yes, it existed before we perceived it.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yes, it existed before we perceived it.

Ok...

So to be clear, even if all the human minds in the universe were gone and didn't exist...there would still be beauty?

 

[Colter]

Ok...

So to be clear, even if all the human minds in the universe were gone and didn't exist...there would still be beauty?

Yes, because prior to the creation of the first human to percieve goodness the eteral isle of Paridise existed in eternity, at least in my theology.

 

[Davian]

Yes, it existed before we perceived it.

Or, after we imagined it.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yes, because prior to the creation of the first human to percieve goodness the eteral isle of Paridise existed in eternity, at least in my theology.

Ahhh...ok. For a minute there I thought you were just making stuff up.

 

[E. Mortimer]

I am just surprisingly overwhelmed by the number of athiests and agnostics on Christian Forums. I'm not hating you for it, go head, do you! I was just wondering...why?

I don't believe in Buddha. But you don't see me arguing over him for hours, talking about him, thinking about him... I don't believe in Allah. But you don't see me arguing over him for hours, thinking about him, convincing others he's not true. I don't believe in Zeus or the other gods from mythology, but you don't see me on a Mythology Forum arguing why it's not true, spending hours debating over something I don't believe.

So why do atheists? I don't have any numbers, but from my observations over the years it seems like atheists are so... fired-up when it comes to disproving God. Why bother? If you don't believe it's true then why spend so much time, emotion, and energy convincing others you're right? To the point where you come to a Christian Forum? Why? What benefit are you receiving? Why not just be okay with it, "I don't believe in God, now I'm going to live my life." Why do you have to argue about Him all the time to the point to where it seems all you think about is how He's not real?

It seems so pointless. So, overall, why? Do you feel like it's your moral duty to try and convince the billions of people you're right? Is it the right thing to do in your eyes?

I just find it crazy how emotional atheists are over trying to debunk something they don't believe in, not specifically people on these forums but outside of it too.
Who are you trying to convince more, us or yourself?

I may repeat a few things that have already been said. If I do then it is because I agree with them and/or because I did not read every single post made over the seven pages this thread has garnered.

My first point is why would you be overwhelmed by the number of agnostics on this forum? Because you lumped them in with atheists in your first sentence, I am going to assume that you are unaware of the differences between an atheist and an agnostic. To keep the definitions short and simple, an atheist is a person who believes that God does not exist and an agnostic is a person who is very much on the line and is unsure.

Mind you, these are very simplistic and straightforward definitions that do not apply to every single person who has these views (especially agnostics). With that said, and understanding that conversion of the faithless is very important in Christianity, you should be welcoming agnostics with open arms. More than anything, an agnostic who joins this forum could be considered a seeker of Truth and as a Christian you should consider it your duty to try to help them find that Truth. Threads like this, however, could very well make them feel unwelcomed and thus, by the ideals of your own Faith, you are effectively condemning them.

Some of the same could be said for atheists, perhaps even more so, though I will admit that convincing an atheist of your beliefs is far less likely as they have already taken a firm step in the direction of their own belief. However, this should not make them any less worthy of attempting to be saved and shown the Light in the eyes of a Christian. And since they came to this forum of their own Free Will, then they have come to you (for whatever reason) and thus the possibility of potentially saving them has been made easier.

So I would suggest that you, as a Christan, never be baffled by or complain about an atheist's willingness to talk about God because so long as they are still talking about Him, then you should consider their potential for being saved as being greater than those who do not. It is a very classic case of What Would Jesus Do? Would Jesus write off an agnostic or even an atheist and just say, "Well if you don't believe in me, then don't talk to or about me."

I don't assume to know Jesus, but I've read the Bible and nothing in there leads me to believe that that is how Jesus would deal with unbelievers.

Secondly, Allah is God and God is Allah. Islam recognizes the same God as Christians. Islam even recognizes Jesus as being a legitimate prophet. They simply do not believe that he is the Messiah nor do they believe in the Trinity. You do not have to agree with their method of worship nor do you have to agree with their culture or their ideals, but to differentiate between God and Allah comes across as a desperate attempt at distancing yourself from a religion that you do not agree with. If I say that I believe in God, but that I do not believe that Jesus was God, how can you prove that I do not believe in the same God as you? The fact is, you can't. You cannot prove that I do not believe in the same God any more than you can scientifically prove His existence any more than an atheist can scientifically prove His non-existence. So to say you do not believe in Allah is inaccurate. Allah is simply a different name for the same entity, much as is Yaweh and the countless other names. It is just that the name applied to the religion that uses said name has a different method of worship that you may or may not agree with on several levels.

Thirdly, what do you mean by you do not "believe in Buddha"? A common misconception among many people (including many would-be Buddhists) is that Buddha is some sort of god or even God. This is simply not true. Buddhists are not meant to worship the Buddha, they are only meant to emulate his life. The belief that Buddha ascended is not tied to godhood but is rather tied to a transcendence beyond mortality and entering into a oneness with the Universe. This is, in fact, very similar to Christianity in that the worthy transcend humanity after death and join with God in the afterlife, but it does not insinuate that they become like gods. One could even argue that if Buddha were a Christian then he would be like a saint, meant to be emulated but not worshiped.

But I digress. Back to your original point.

I think your questions ought to be turned back around and directed at you. Why do atheists bother to talk about God? Never mind that! The real question is why are you not seizing this opportunity to speak with them about God? Why do atheists care? Never mind that! Why don't you? Share with them your enlightenment! And if they attack you with words; should they smite you, then turn the other cheek and have faith in the Word and continue to try to enlighten them. And if they attack you physically, then defend yourself; sell your garment to purchase a sword, if absolutely necessary, and if not, then distance yourself from them for your own protection.

But if all they want to do is talk, even if it is with hateful and hurtful words, then talk.

As for why atheists appear to be so passionate about something they do not believe in, well, that cannot be answered by a single person; not even a single atheist. You see, atheism is not a religion. It is a shared belief (or disbelief, if you will), but that is where the similarities between two atheists end. After that, they may or may not share similar beliefs on other important subjects (politically, scientifically, etc.) and could very well be polar opposites from one another.

So one atheist may vehemently attack religion and all believers every single day because they may feel duty-bound to spread their own understanding of truth and they may believe that all religion is akin to a dangerous cult. Another atheist may genuinely be interested in another person's beliefs and why they believe that way. And yet another atheist may be politically motivated because it cannot be denied that religion (especially Christianity when talking about the United States) holds considerable political sway and could very well go against their own political beliefs (marriage equality, education, drug use, etc.).

So you see, when you ask a broad question, you will receive a broad answer. But I commend you none-the-less for it is my humble opinion that no question worth asking has a simple answer.

 

[bhsmte]

I may repeat a few things that have already said. If I do then it is because I agree with them and/or because I did not read every single post made over the seven pages this thread has garnered.

My first point is why would you be overwhelmed by the number of agnostics on this forum? Because you lumped them in with atheists in your first sentence, I am going to assume that you are unaware of the differences between an atheist and an agnostic. To keep the definitions short and simply, an atheist is a person who believes that God does not exist and an agnostic is a person who is very much on the line and is unsure.

Mind you, these are very simplistic and straightforward definitions that do not apply to every single person who has these views (especially agnostics). With that said, and understanding that conversion of the faithless is very important in Christianity, you should be welcoming agnostics with open arms. More than anything, an agnostic who joins this forum could be considered a seeker of Truth and as a Christian you should consider it your duty to try to help them find that Truth. Threads like this, however, could very well make them feel unwelcomed and thus, by the ideals of your own Faith, you are effectively condemning them.

Some of the same could be said for atheists, perhaps even more so, though I will admit that convincing an atheist of your beliefs is far less likely as they have already taken a firm step in the direction of their own belief. However, this should not make them any less worthy of attempting to be saved and shown the Light in the eyes of a Christian. And since they came to this forum of their own Free Will, then they have come to you (for whatever reason) and thus the possibility of potentially saving them has been made easier on you.

So I would suggest that you, as a Christan, never be baffled by or complain about an atheist's willingness to talk about God because so long as they are still talking about Him, then you should consider their potential for being saved. It is a very classic case of What Would Jesus Do? Would Jesus write off an agnostic or even an atheist and just say, "Well if you don't believe in me, then don't talk to or about me."

I don't assume to know Jesus, but I've read the Bible and nothing in there leads me to believe that that is how Jesus would deal with unbelievers.

Secondly, Allah is God and God is Allah. Muslims worship the same God as Christians. Islam even recognizes Jesus as being a legitimate prophet. They simply do not believe that he is the Messiah nor do they believe in the Trinity. You do not have to agree with their method of worship nor do you have to agree with their culture or their ideals, but to differentiate between God and Allah comes across as a desperate attempt at distancing yourself from a religion that you do not agree with. If I say that I believe in God, but that I do not believe that Jesus was God, how can you prove that I do not believe in the same God as you? The fact is, you can't. You cannot prove that I do not believe in the same God any more than you can scientifically prove His existence any more than an atheist can scientifically prove His non-existence. So to say you do not believe in Allah is inaccurate. Allah is simply a different name for the same entity, much as is Yaweh and the countless other names. It is just that the name applied to the religion that uses said name has a different method of worship that you may or may not agree with on several levels.

Thirdly, what do you mean by you do not "believe in Buddha"? A common misconception among many people (including many would-be Buddhists) is that Buddha is some sort of god or even God. This is simply not true. Buddhists are not meant to worship the Buddha, they are only meant to emulate his life. The belief that Buddha ascended is not tied to godhood but is rather tied to a transcendence beyond mortality and entering into a oneness with the Universe. This is, in fact, very similar to Christianity in that the worthy transcend humanity after death and join with God in the afterlife, but it does not insinuate that they become likes gods. One could even argue that if Buddha were a Christian then he would be like a saint, meant to be emulated but not worshiped.

But I digress. Back to your original point.

I think your questions ought to be turned back around and directed at you. Why do atheists bother to talk about God? Never mind that! The real question is why are you not seizing this opportunity to speak with them about God? Why do atheists care? Never mind that! Why don't you? Share with them your enlightenment! And if they attack you with words; should they smite you, then turn the other cheek and have faith in the Word and continue to try to enlighten them. And if they attack you physically, then defend yourself; sell your garment to purchase a sword, if absolutely necessary, and if not, then distance yourself from them for your own protection.

But if all they want to do is talk, even if it is with hateful and hurtful words, then talk.

As for why atheists appear to be so passionate about something they do not believe in, well, that cannot be answered by a single person; not even a single atheist. You see, atheism is not a religion. It is a shared belief (or disbelief, if you will), but that is where the similarities between two atheists end. After that, they may or may not share similar beliefs on other subjects (politically, scientifically, etc.) and could very well be polar opposites from one another.

So one atheist may vehemently attack religion and all believers every single day because they may feel duty-bound to spread their own understanding of truth and they may believe that all religion is akin to a dangerous cult. Another atheist may genuinely be interested in another person's beliefs and why they believe that way. And yet another atheist may be politically motivated because it cannot be denied that religion (especially Christianity when talking about the United States) holds considerable political sway and could very well go against their own political beliefs (marriage equality, education, drug use, etc.).

So you see, when you ask a broad question, you will receive a broad answer. But I commend you none-the-less for it is my humble opinion that no question worth asking has a simple answer.

Agnostics aren't necessarily "on the line". As they feel, to believe a God exists in simply unknowable.

I do agree, an atheist is one who does not believe a God exists.

In my case, I am atheist towards personal Gods and especially the characteristics Christianity applies to this God. Having this description, I am than able to try to reconcile whether this God exists with the realities of the world, and IMO, I don't believe this God does exist.

In regards to universal type Gods, who are not personal Gods, I would call myself agnostic, because we simply don't have the same descriptions of the characteristics of that type of God, to compare to reality.

 

[E. Mortimer]

Agnostics aren't necessarily "on the line". As they feel, to believe a God exists in simply unknowable.

I do agree, an atheist is one who does not believe a God exists.

In my case, I am atheist towards personal Gods and especially the characteristics Christianity applies to this God. Having this description, I am than able to try to reconcile whether this God exists with the realities of the world, and IMO, I don't believe this God does exist.

In regards to universal type Gods, who are not personal Gods, I would call myself agnostic, because we simply don't have the same descriptions of the characteristics of that type of God, to compare to reality.

Note that I recognized the base simplicity of those two definitions. Saying that an agnostic is "on the line" versus believing that God's existence is "unknowable" comes down to little more than semantics. It's splitting hairs, really, and in regards to the OP's topic, is hardly worth its own discussion.

 

[paulm50]

I am just surprisingly overwhelmed by the number of athiests and agnostics on Christian Forums. I'm not hating you for it, go head, do you! I was just wondering...why?

For me. It's to stop others on the fence from being converted to the blind faith many here have. To reveal what's really true about the bible.

There's a lot to be said for the message Jesus preached. Which has been taken as a license to kill others. Would some fundamentalists like more power, of course they would. Look at the bible belt and see the extremes.

 

[paulm50]

Yahushua said the enemy came only to kill and steal and destroy. the gays, the adulters , the thieves, the liars, the fornicators , will seek endless arguments and posts to try to relieve their conscience, or to find other like them, or to drag others down with them.... it will go on and on and on....

and unlike ekklesia who dwell in union with Yahushua in Yhvh ABBA(God),

the unredeemed worldly dwell in control of the enemy spirits and sin,
just like WE ALL DID ONCE
not like we are anything 'special' except for and after the blood of Yahusha was shed for us and PURCHASED US TO BE HIS---- that makes all the difference.

and Yahushuia said that they will hate you(us)(we ekklesia) FOR NO REASON AT ALL, not knowing what they are doing (like the sinners at the crucifixion)
and continuing without knowing
and continuing without learning ever, unless finally by grace being born again in Yhvh's Will in Yahushua, SHEER GRACE !!!

somewhat too, remember they are encouraged and not too ofter restricted per se, in what they pursue here.

I post here to counter this kind of message. He thinks anyone who doesn't agree is an enemy. People who do him no harm and not interested in doing him harm. Gays, adulterers, fornicators ,why hate them. What harm do they do?

We are finding out about a Gay gene, adulterers and fornicators are people doing what they were designed to do. Sex is pert of our make up and if we were created by god, he made us to have sex, for fun, enjoyment, relaxation and to reproduce. Way back some old men decided they wanted to control our nature. So made sex a sin, nothing to do with any god. Just a way to instil guilt into us.

Jeff needs to be countered and anyone like him.

 

[bhsmte]

Note that I recognized the base simplicity of those two definitions. Saying that an agnostic is "on the line" versus believing that God's existence is "unknowable" comes down to little more than semantics. It's splitting hairs, really, and in regards to the OP's topic, is hardly worth its own discussion.

Being "on the line" infers one is close to believing something, to me at least.

If one declares something as "unknowable", they would not appear to be close to believing something.

 

[E. Mortimer]

Being "on the line" infers one is close to believing something, to me at least.

If one declares something as "unknowable", they would not appear to be close to believing something.

Then you merely misinterpreted what I meant by "on the line" as it is meant to mean not knowing one way or the other. Mind you, as I was responding to a Christian, the "on the line" idiom should be read from a Christian perspective which is to say that they are in danger of falling away from God, but not quite there yet. Thus, on the line.

 

[The Cadet]

This video explains it pretty well.

Look, it's really simple. The Christian "moral majority" has been a major factor in American politics. Religion plays a huge role in all of western civilization. We have never had an atheistic president (at least, not since the founding fathers). There is not a single openly atheistic congressman. Religious sensibilities play a huge role in numerous issues in society, from sex education to the rights of homosexuals. Atheists are the least trusted minority in America, ranking slightly below rapists. Is it any wonder, then, that some atheists might get a little upset about it? Maybe? Just a little?

 

[Rationalt]

People get off on different things.Putting down people(and their ideas) is one thing that never loses it's appeal.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

People get off on different things.Putting down people(and their ideas) is one thing that never loses it's appeal.

I don't think CF is the best platform for "putting down people." To its credit, it's too civil for that.

 

[Isaacsname]

This forums seems like it actually tolerates debate, which is a step ahead of other so-called Christian forums and chats that do not allow debate / discussion

...which is lovely, because I feel like if you champion a cause, you should be able to stand behind it 100%

What I have seen is that it's not the idea that God exists that so many people have problems with, it's with the interpretations spewed forth by people deciding they have the " infallible " interpretation of their particular book

When it comes to " infallible " bible interpretations, you'd think only Jesus would be infallible

Lots of people willingly admit they believe that God is real, however getting them to stomach your particular brand of hermeneutics is another battle altogether

 

[bhsmte]

This forums seems like it actually tolerates debate, which is a step ahead of other so-called Christian forums and chats that do not allow debate / discussion

...which is lovely, because I feel like if you champion a cause, you should be able to stand behind it 100%

What I have seen is that it's not the idea that God exists that so many people have problems with, it's with the interpretations spewed forth by people deciding they have the " infallible " interpretation of their particular book

When it comes to " infallible " bible interpretations, you'd think only Jesus would be infallible

Lots of people willingly admit they believe that God is real, however getting them to stomach your particular brand of hermeneutics is another battle altogether

It is true, biblical interpretations are a dime a dozen, just look at how many denominations of Christianity there are, all with their own brand of belief that suits their needs. This tells me, one gravitates towards the theology that suits their individual psyche.

What interests me about these boards, is not so much what someone believes, but how they go about justifying their belief. That is where it gets interesting.

 

[paulm50]

This video explains it pretty well.

Look, it's really simple. The Christian "moral majority" has been a major factor in American politics. Religion plays a huge role in all of western civilization. We have never had an atheistic president (at least, not since the founding fathers). There is not a single openly atheistic congressman. Religious sensibilities play a huge role in numerous issues in society, from sex education to the rights of homosexuals. Atheists are the least trusted minority in America, ranking slightly below rapists. Is it any wonder, then, that some atheists might get a little upset about it? Maybe? Just a little?

Look abroad for a wider perspective. Or is America now god's own land?

 

[pakicetus]

Atheists seem to obsess over religion because:

1. Some of them do, though it might not be many

2. Those who do are much more likely to let you know they're atheists. It could be that most atheists don't care very much about religion, so they keep quiet about it and you never learn they're atheists.

 

[paulm50]

Atheists seem to obsess over religion because:

1. Some of them do, though it might not be many

2. Those who do are much more likely to let you know they're atheists. It could be that most atheists don't care very much about religion, so they keep quiet about it and you never learn they're atheists.

For me it's about exposing lies and fundamentalists whose only mission is to control others. Not so long ago, we Europeans were tearing each other apart in Holy Wars like Islamists are doing today. GWB went to war in Iraq believing he was on a mission from god, Blair won't admit that. Some here think he was also motivated by his faith. Were they talking to the converted to get their consent and using religion, or did he really believe he was on a Mission from god?

How many churches in the US supported his invasion of Iraq?