Wow, lots of comments fast, I'll do a couple more for now.... (
Murby DeanW Hoghead1 look4hope)
Hoghead1
Fair enough, and I tend to agree. However the forum is about the
Atheist end of it, part of the reason for this thread is that I think those who believe in God who show signs of hate or do something extreme get the lion's share of the criticism when compared to non believers who do the same. It's assumed that believers will be the hypocritical ones, and atheist will be the logical ones. This stigma is hurting various religions like Christianity a great deal because there are those who
don't acknowledge that hate and hypocrisy are not liberal, conservative, religious, or traits of atheist, they're human traits. So more or less you're right, but I want to know about the Atheist end of it.
Murby
I'm not sure, but I'd say opening the line with sarcasm is not the way to go about being polite. I don't think it was your intention to be polite though, ohh well.
Anyway, the definition of religion is also stated as...
"an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion
It seems to me a commonly used form of the word as well, did you not know this? The perception is that believers are supposed to be the uneducated ones. Back and forth sarcasm aside (hopefully far to the side) Is it possible to believe in God and have your own independent thought's and beliefs outside religion? Sure it is, happens all the time.
Here you said....
It may not be important or true
to you or perhaps other non-believers, but teaching God
is teaching the truth in the eyes of many and I think that should be respected as a part of our culture. For informational purposes, the Youtube video I mentioned was about whether or not adults, in general, should teach creationism to kids, not necessarily just regarding school, it was being portrayed as a bad thing for young minds. As far as school goes I think it should be up to the discretion of the school whether or not they have a class on religion or God, in the cases where a school does have a class like this it can be kept optional if some feel it intrudes on what they already believe, excluding it completely from every school because some don't like it or think its phony is not fair to those who feel differently.
God can be very educational actually and give people tools they need in life. I'm not Christian but a lot of the Bible has historically accurate references and much of it has life lessons that could be applicable whether or not you believe, the Bible has stuck around for 1000's of years for a reason. I don't agree with all of it but it's a big part of our society and should be considered, this is how my Jr. Highschool worked, and it worked out fine. The alternative to the Christian class was an arts and crafts class, I did arts and crafts because I found them more interesting than religion as a young teen. I never felt the Christian class was being forced, or that opinions were being pushed down my throat.
The thing about some Athiest that I notice is that the sheer mention of God or religion can set some of them off, and sometimes it's little things. For some it's not about preventing religion or God from being pushed, it's about preventing it from being present at all outside of a church. For the non-believers who happen to be doing this, I view it as discriminatory. Again, not all Athiest or Agnostics do this, but I've seen it a good bit.
DeanW
Thanks for the reply without the sarcasm and actually addressing the question, I feel something is missing from what you said but you addressed it head on. If I could add a thought, I think most of what you said is true, I was agnostic for a good while due to so many different things, including violence and hypocrisy, but the bigger picture is interesting. Some of those who are religious have done bad things, but it doesn't come without Atheist, or non-believers doing some bad things. Some people don't care to treat others fairly, I find that to be a sad thing but intolerance and hate knows no political, racial, or religious bounds.
I referenced Joseph Stalin in a reply here, he was a General Secretary of the communist party in the Soviet Union, a very powerful leader who led Russians to murder nearly 10 million people, making him arguably worse than Hitler. He was atheist and would often intentionally target churches, and this is not the only example of Atheist aggression, far from it. Do I think that violence is what defines Atheism? No, I just don't feel violence or abuse is exclusive to those who believe in God. Actually, for the most part, I believe the opposite happens. Believers often find piece of mind, or contribute more because the beliefs they have give them strength.
Look4hope
Right? It is Christianforums after all, it's a very welcoming website, as Christianity should be, but I still find it perplexing that there's a relatively small group who hang out here who primarily have ugly or sarcastic things to say in regards to Christianity. I think some are here because they want Christians to know what they think about them, the sad truth is that many feel Christians are stupid and bakwards and they want you to hear it. You have many reasonable skeptics out threre for sure, but there's also the group who are as hypocritical as what they accuse some Christians of being. (very little acceptance, lots of judging, lots of sarcasm, and a lot of baiting.)
I understand where you're coming from on how you felt about God, I struggle with something similar. I believe in God but have concerns in regards to some of Christianity. I'm definitely not on a mission to attack it like some are because I believe the majority of it is very beautiful and encouraging, but much like you're describing from your past, the idea of suffering is what keeps me away. In my case it's the issue of
eternal suffering, there are a couple other things as well from a scientific standpoint, but that's the big one.