Why do Arminians...

[Hammster]

No thanks. Please answer this question:
Are all choices an election. Yes or No.

Can you rephrase that in the form of a question?

 

[Skala]

No thanks. Please answer this question:
Are all choices an election. Yes or No.

Please answer this question:

Does the Greek word eklektos (form which we get our English word "elect") mean: to choose, to select?

Yes or no?

This is an open book test. Feel free to find the exact answer here:
Strong's Greek: 1588. ἐκλεκτός (eklektos) -- select, by impl. favorite

 

[FreeGrace2]

Not faulty, but rather a logical conclusion. One cannot simply dismiss it by claiming it to be faulty, without showing reason. That has not been done.

I said this:
There is no reason at all that one must be elected TO salvation in order to be elected TO special privilege and service.
Since no reason was given along with your claim, the claim will stay faulty. Until such time as proof can be given for your claim.

Scripture?

Sure. Eph 1:4. The "us" in there refers only to believers; specifically to Paul and his immediate audience, and generally to all believers who read his words.

That's what a first person plural pronoun does. It identifies who the "us" are. Believers. Therefore, it is only believers who have been elected. Nothing about being elected to become believers, as the RT tries to spin it.

It has been provided.

Again, there are NO verses that indicate that one is elected to salvation. None.

The refusal to acknowledge or engage with it does not mean it hasn't been shown. We believe what we do for clear reasons.

So, what are these "clear reasons"?

Do events just happen by themselves? Does certainty arise from uncertainty, in defiance of all the known laws of cause and effect, and entropy?

These questions have no relevance to my question to you. Please answer my question.

That's about as Arminian as it can be…

Here is what I said:
And because God is omniscient, He has always knows who will believe. And His election of believers is a corporate election. He elects believers. Eph 1:4.
Please show me what is in error in my statement, if possible. And whether or not anyone else agrees or not, doesn't matter. So no need to keep bringing up Arminians. I believe we are saved by grace through faith, just as Calvinists believe. Why hasn't anyone accused me of being a Calvinist?

So now special privilege and service are the same as holy and blameless?

So maybe your view doesn't see any linkage. That's kind of sad. Why wouldn't be "holy and blameless" not be related to service? Any explanation?

And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see who are considered the 'stinky ones'.

Let's not be so sensitive. Everyone knows of believers who's lives aren't exactly Christ-like.

iow, not all believers are full of charm and wit and enjoyable to be around. That's all I meant. So please don't take it so far from my meaning.

That was a thoroughly Arminian reply, from someone who claims to not be Arminian. One thing is not like the other, methinks....

Please stop with the reference to Arminian, or I will report it. We all know the rules. If someone's behavior offends another, it is a reportable offense. So please knock if off.

I believe man is saved by grace through faith, and I've not met any Calvinist who would disagree. So why hasn't anyone accused me of being a Calvinist?

It goes both ways, of course.

Regardless, what was there in my statement that was wrong? Just identifying it with some group does nothing to shed light on WHY it is wrong.

iow, when criticisms are being thrown about, please include some explanation that would support your reason for the criticism. If there is any support.

If criticisms continue, but without supporting explanation, we can all know that there wasn't any supporting explanation, but just another criticism that has no meaning, or relevance to the discussion.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You're confusing the act of electing something as an individual with the process of election whereby multiple votes are cast and the highest number wins.

To elect something is to choose something.

If I say I elected to come to work today, that is the exact same thing as saying I chose to come to work today.

To say I elected to eat mexican food for lunch today is the same as saying I chose to eat mexican food for lunch today.

To elect something is to choose something.

When God elected us, he chose us. He did not "start an election" whereby some votes are cast by multiple parties and then the highest # wins.

I don't see any answer to my question.

Are all choices an election? Yes or no will suffice.

 

[Skala]

I don't see any answer to my question.

Are all choices an election? Yes or no will suffice.

You didn't answer mine:

Does eklektos, where we get our English word "elect", mean to select, to choose?

Yes or no?

Strong's Greek: 1588. ἐκλεκτός (eklektos) -- select, by impl. favorite

 

[FreeGrace2]

I'm getting really tired of this nonsensical debate.

The Greek word eklektos (where we get the english word "elect" from) MEANS "to select, to choose".
Strong's Greek: 1588. ἐκλεκτός (eklektos) -- select, by impl. favorite

To eklektos something is to select or choose something.
To eklektos something is to select or choose something.
To eklektos something is to select or choose something.
To eklektos something is to select or choose something.
To eklektos something is to select or choose something.
To eklektos something is to select or choose something.
To eklektos something is to select or choose something.
To eklektos something is to select or choose something.

Got it?

Clearly, you don't by the use of the wrong word. Instead of using an adjective, which is not a verb, the correct Greek word is "eklegomai".

But, yes, all elections involve choice.

But do you agree that all choices involve an election?

That is why the Greek word for Church is "ekklesia" because it means a group of "chosen" or eklektosed people.

Got it?

So those 2 words are somehow linked. Just because both begin with the same 2 letters? Seriously????!!

Ekklesia means "assembly of people". Eklektos is an adjective which describes one or a group as having been elected.

There is no debate here. This is just cold hard facts.

 

[Skala]

I don't see any answer to my question.

Are all choices an election? Yes or no will suffice.

All choices are eklektos, which means to choose or select.

Eklektos is where we get the word "elect" from.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said this:
I don't see any answer to my question.

Are all choices an election? Yes or no will suffice.

All choices are eklektos, which means to choose or select.

Eklektos is where we get the word "elect" from.

Yep, I didn't think I'd get an answer to the question. Playing a record over and over doesn't qualify as an answer to my simple "yes/no" question.

 

[Skala]

Clearly, you don't by the use of the wrong word. Instead of using an adjective, which is not a verb, the correct Greek word is "eklegomai".

But, yes, all elections involve choice.

But do you agree that all choices involve an election?

Do you mean the act of electing something, or the act of "holding an election" whereby many votes are cast and a winner is chosen?

Those are two different things.

All acts of me electing something are the same thing as all acts of choosing something.

 

[Skala]

I said this:
I don't see any answer to my question.

Are all choices an election? Yes or no will suffice.

Yep, I didn't think I'd get an answer to the question. Playing a record over and over doesn't qualify as an answer to my simple "yes/no" question.

The answer to the question is that you are trying to make a difference where there isn't one.

Can't imagine the agenda that would drive a person to do such a nonsensical and irrelevant thing.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Do you mean the act of electing something, or the act of "holding an election" whereby many votes are cast and a winner is chosen?

Those are two different things.

All acts of me electing something are the same thing as all acts of choosing something.

So, by inference, you elected the socks that are on your feet, and you elected the food that is now in your stomach. Got it.

A simple yes would have sufficed.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The answer to the question is that you are trying to make a difference where there isn't one.

The obvious issue is that there is a difference which is why one ignores my question. We all know that very few choices involve an election.

 

[Hammster]

The obvious issue is that there is a difference which is why one ignores my question. We all know that very few choices involve an election.

I'm not sure what you are arguing for, but biblically, choose and elect are the same Greek word, or root word.

So every choice involves a choice.

 

[Skala]

The obvious issue is that there is a difference which is why one ignores my question. We all know that very few choices involve an election.

That's like saying very few choices involve a choice.

Again, you're making a word that means the same exact thing as another word, differ from it, because of some nonsensical agenda on your part.

GUYS..Guys...canine and dog mean two different things!!!!!

 

[Hammster]

That's like saying very few choices involve a choice.

Again, you're making a word that means the same exact thing as another word, differ from it, because of some nonsensical agenda on your part.

GUYS..Guys...canine and dog mean two different things!!!!!

Yes, he's definitely making a distinction without a difference.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I'm not sure what you are arguing for, but biblically, choose and elect are the same Greek word, or root word.

Wrong. The word for "chose" in 2 Thess 2:13 is 'haireomai'. Does that look even remotely similar to "eklegomai"? No, it does not.

So every choice involves a choice.

No kidding.

So, does every choice (haireomai) involve an election (eklegomai)? That's the question that all the RT's are obviously ignoring.

 

[FreeGrace2]

That's like saying very few choices involve a choice.

No, it's not.

Again, you're making a word that means the same exact thing as another word, differ from it, because of some nonsensical agenda on your part.

The words are different, which is obvious, and do have an overlap, as in:
all elections involve a choice, but very few choices involve an election.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yes, he's definitely making a distinction without a difference.

It's clear that some just cannot understand the distinction that does indicate a difference. But to do so would seriously threaten a doctrine very dear to them.

 

[Hammster]

Wrong. The word for "chose" in 2 Thess 2:13 is 'haireomai'. Does that look even remotely similar to "eklegomai"? No, it does not.


No kidding.

So, does every choice (haireomai) involve an election (eklegomai)? That's the question that all the RT's are obviously ignoring.

Thanks for clearing up what you are referring to. I probably missed it earlier.

But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. (2 Thessalonians 2:13 NASB)

So are these that Paul refers to "elect"? Well, I would say so. Otherwise, there's no to to thank God for the choice. If this was man's choice to believe, then we would be thanking man, not God. That is, unless you think chosen in this verse means something other than chosen.

 

[Hammster]

It's clear that some just cannot understand the distinction that does indicate a difference. But to do so would seriously threaten a doctrine very dear to them.

Could you please explain the difference between 'haireomai' and "eklegomai"? I'd like to know how that difference threatens what I believe.

Thanks in advance.