Why do all believers connected with "tongues".....

[Hazelelponi]

Well, that's wrong. There are charismatic organizations in the Catholic church, and in the Lutheran churches, and in most mainline denominations, not to mention the smaller ones. They are not "underground" groups, either, even though the denominations that belong to are not oriented towards their theology.

It's a movement that has affected many if not most denominations, but that doesn't tell us anything about the beliefs of most of them when it comes to the particular issue that was asked about here.

I think the message is wholly different, you may notice, between mainline and the Pentecostals..

 

[Albion]

IVe not said that. I Threaded that Pentecostals as a group, reject Eternal Security as a whole.

Had you actually started us off with that idea, this discussion would have been a lot different. But you did not.

What you actually said in the OP was this:

"Why do all believers who are connected with "tongues" believe that you can "lose your salvation".

 

[Behold]

Well, that's wrong. There are charismatic organizations in the Catholic church, and in the Lutheran churches, and in most mainline denominations, not to mention the smaller ones. They are not "underground" groups, either, even though the denominations that belong to are not oriented towards their theology.

I was not aware that the Pope authenticated and accepted the Charismatic Catholic Groups. So, im not really up on that as im not a Catholic. However, all that you listed will tell you that you can lose your salvation.....all of them........and that is curious.

 

[lsume]

Why do all believers who are connected with "tongues" believe that you can "lose your salvation".
This is very curious.

Telling someone that they have lost their salvation is way outside of man’s entitlements. That is God’s sovereign providence.

 

[AlexDTX]

Why do all believers who are connected with "tongues" believe that you can "lose your salvation".
This is very curious.

As a tongue talking Pentecostal believer, I don't believe you can lose your salvation. If you can, you have to work real hard to do so. One would have to come to a point of believing evil is good and good is evil. Who would do that if they know Jesus? No one.

However, I do believe this is goal of Satan for all believers. He wants to get us to believe God does the evil in our lives. That God causes illness for his glory. That tragedy is his tool to bring glory to himself. Illness and tragedy occurs, of course, but God never causes such things, even though he uses those thing for his glory. When anyone believes God causes harm, their hearts are being hardened.

The same question could be asked of people who believe you have to have works for salvation. For example, gathering together to worship on Saturday as the only "real" sabbath. Do they think they can lose their salvation, too? I don't know since I don't believe this doctrine.

 

[Albion]

I was not aware that the Pope authenticated and accepted the Charismatic Catholic Groups.

Oh yes, and it's not just the current Pope.

 

[Behold]

Had you actually started us off with that idea, this discussion would have been a lot different. But you did not.

What you actually said in the OP was this:

"Why do all believers who are connected with "tongues" believe that you can "lose your salvation".

If i ever meet one that does not argue on this forum and all the rest, that you can lose your salvation, then i'll change my Thread's pov. But like i said.......Im on forums since 2004, and im talking to Pentecostal Pastors since 1987, and every one, all....believe that you are kept saved by your works, and they deny that God keeps you saved by His Blood. They all teach that you can LOSE Your Salvation.

 

[AlexDTX]

Pentecostalism in America originates in Wesley Methodism. But they added tongues of a highly questionable source to it.

David, in 1901 when the Pentecostal movement took off in the 20th century, were they Methodists?

 

[Behold]

As a tongue talking Pentecostal believer, I don't believe you can lose your salvation. If you can, you have to work real hard to do so.

So are you saying that if you work real hard its possible to lose your salvation?, That it can be done? Are you leaving the door open?
And would you mind sharing with me your Denomination?

 

[Behold]

Oh yes, and it's not just the current Pope.

Ok then. so, that is the CC that rejects Eternal Security, and the Charismatic CC groups that reject it.

=Check.

So, i guess that worldwide number of "tongues'" groups that hate Eternal Security, got a whole lot larger.. Thank you for showing us this fact.

 

[Behold]

Thank you.

 

[Behold]

yes that has been my experience as well Pentecostals hate the fact that the Bible states we are eternally secure. There are plenty of people who speak in tongues and believe in eternal security.

Absolutely.. one of my best "online friends", use to be a part of the Pentecostal movement. He's a MOD over at "WorthyChristianForums.com"..... He has a prayer language, and absolutely believes that you are eternally secure In Christ.

There is Pentecostal that just showed up there..... Paul James, who is the opposite..... and that place is similar to this forum......you have the raging continual fire about "Eternal Security", and so......you find the CC and you find the Pentecostal groups always fanning that flame.

 

[AlexDTX]

I would guess it is because their belief on the acquisition of the Holy Spirit is a separate experience from salvation or Baptism. I don't know how it is exactly tied to that, but that's my best guess.

The Pentecostal congregation that I found Christ in, they did not believe they are 2 different acquisitions. One acquires the Holy Spirit with the new birth. The Holy Spirit then dwells in your heart. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the release of the Spirit through your body. In other words, with this release is the river of living waters that Jesus spoke about.

Someone said that if God does not complain that we don't have the baptism of the Holy Spirit, then he was not concerned about. God does not complain. He informs. He tells us that if we remain in our sins we will die, but he does not complain, nor make us repent. He informs us not to minister until we receive the power from on high. He does not make us take the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

In regards to two separate experiences of the Holy Spirit we see them here. After his resurrection he appeared unto the disciples.

Joh 20:20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
Joh 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
Joh 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:​

It was at this point they were born again. They already believed he was Christ who died for their sins and rose again, since he was standing in front of them.
But the baptism of the Holy Spirit happened 10 days after his ascension on the day of Pentecost, and that was when they spoke in tongues.

This is why there are two experiences of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Albion]

Ok then. so, that is the CC that rejects Eternal Security, and the Charismatic CC groups that reject it.

Yes, but I've already pointed out that there are charismatics and even charismatic groups in almost every significant denomination.

To keep on trying to claim the world's largest denomination is if were a charismatic church is ridiculous, even if it's a way to make the number of charismatic denominations or charismatics themselves seem more numerous. Doing that is strictly misleading, however.

 

[Behold]

Tongues aside, "once saved always saved" is a theological view that states no matter what you do you will not loose your salvation. This is contrary to scripture. If one falls away from faith , they lost their salvation if they die in unbelief.
Be blessed and stay healthy.

A Pentecostal needs to preach. They are always like this.. They can't help but try to deny the blood atonement....It's their ministry in life, and on every forum.

 

[XAPLTOS]

Absolutely.. one of my best "online friends", use to be a part of the Pentecostal movement. He's a MOD over at "WorthyChristianForums.com"..... He has a prayer language, and absolutely believes that you are eternally secure In Christ.

I can understand, I left the Pentecostal Church because they do not believe in eternal security. Pentecostals preach a very destructive message even know they are well meaning their damaging those sitting in their congregations.

 

[AlexDTX]

So are you saying that if you work real hard its possible to lose your salvation?, That it can be done? Are you leaving the door open?
And would you mind sharing with me your Denomination?

I spoke tongue in cheek about working real hard. I came to Christ in the Assemblies of God. However, the devil is convinced he can cause people's hearts to harden enough for them to lose their salvation. This is the battle of every believer. To reject his lies and to hold fast to the truth.

But for full transparency, when I came to Christ in the AOG, it was a common belief that you could lose your salvation because the exhortations for our personal responsibilities towards God. Thirty five years later, no, I don't believe you can lose your salvation because I have come to know that the depth and height of God's love and grace are beyond my ken.

 

[Behold]

The Pentecostal congregation that I found Christ in, they did not believe they are 2 different acquisitions. One acquires the Holy Spirit with the new birth. The Holy Spirit then dwells in your heart. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the release of the Spirit through your body. In other words, with this release is the river of living waters that Jesus spoke about.

.

Didn't you just teach 2 separate events?

1. HS dwells

2. The Baptism as a release?

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Tongues aside, "once saved always saved" is a theological view that states no matter what you do you will not loose your salvation.



This is contrary to scripture. If one falls away from faith , they lost their salvation if they die in unbelief.
Be blessed and stay healthy.

Most who are truly saved
will actually act that way.

A young man did the sinners prayer
then lived a life of deliberate sin.
When he got there he was informed
you don't get in.
M

 

[Behold]

Yes, but I've already pointed out that there are charismatics and even charismatic groups in almost every significant denomination.

To keep on trying to claim the world's largest denomination is if were a charismatic church is ridiculous, even if it's a way to make the number of charismatic denominations or charismatics themselves seem more numerous. Doing that is strictly misleading, however.

Humm.
Ive not said, stated, texted, or implied, that the "worlds largest organization" is Pentecostal.
However, other then the Islamic religion, the Roman Catholic Church is the "other" largest religion, as per membership, etc.