Why did you become a Lutheran?

[DaSeminarian]

How goes it there?

Life at the Fort has been good. I am 2 days away from finishing the 2nd quarter of my first year. I am enjoying my fieldwork immensely. I mentioned on another thread in the common Lutheran forum that I will be preaching this coming Sunday for Invocavit. My text will be Luke 4:1-11.

It will be a bittersweet day for me as it also marks 18 years to the day that I lost my father to cancer. I wish he could see what I have done with my life in the past 18 years.

Scott

 

[ctay]

God bless you Scott

 

[Studeclunker]

Scott, be assured he knows. After all, he's not really dead, as per se. 'To die is to gain, as to die is to be with the Lord...' We (Christians) have an assurance, Scott, no one else has. Your father would be proud, I'm sure.

We have an assurance,
A promise was made to us from the Lord of creation,
An assurance was made to us from the master of all that is, was, and will be.
Be comforted, we have an assurance.

The Lord will be with you on Sunday, and I'm sure that it will go wonderfully well.

May our Lord strengthen and support you.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

I'm a convert from liberal Protestantism and Roman Catholicism...


It's a LONG story (for a guy 19 years old, LOL) that I've told (bits and pieces) in General Theology several times, and don't really have time to detail right now, but to highlight...


My father is a pastor in a mainline liberal denomination (I honestly like to NOT get into that because then I spend all my time on line being held responsible for this denomination that I love - because it's my family - but completely disagree with). My father, however, thinks that no one does traditional, bibllical theology better than Lutherans (he teaches from Luther's Small Catechism in confirmation classes). My mother, a Lutheran PK, used Concordia materials to teach me religion as a kid (I was homeschooled, K-12 - another long story) and then my Dad used "Christian Dogmatics" by F. Pieper for my Soph - Senior religion stuff (we spent a year on each volumn). When Dad wasn't too sure about something (not being Lutheran) Mom and my Grandfather were brought in - and I found a few Lutherans via the internet (including a Prof at Concordia St. Louis who was AMAZING about answering my emails, but I've totally forgotten his name, ouch!!!). So, I have some Lutheran roots way back.


When I was in Little League, my best bud in the world was Mark (wild how guys that age can be SUCH friends - what happens to that?) Anyway, Mark and his fam were VERY Catholic (only a Catholic knows what I mean by that). All cradle Catholics, his parents had priests and nuns all over their families, when to Catholic schools K-college (they met and married at a Catholic university), and Mark also went to a Catholic school. They weren't the most conservative of Catholics (ah, there ARE "liberal" Catholics) but very involved in the parish. Anyway, Mark's family's rubric was the same as mine: Saturday sleepovers mean Sunday church! So, my first Mass was a result of that. I thought it WIERD but also interesting and inspirational. That started a nearly 5 year journey as a guest in Catholicism (I never joined). I went to Saturday Mass, the youth group and the youth Bible study there. MEANWHILE, I went to Sunday services at my Dad's church - sometimes to both services (the early Traditional one and the later "praise service"). Can't say didn't get enough religion as a kid! Didn't hurt me a bit - I LOVED it. Oh, and sometimes I'd go to Sunday or Wednesday evening services with my Baptist or Assembly of God friends (my homeschool group was in associated with a large Baptist school). It's amazing I can think stright at all (no comments!).


Thus, I had one foot in the Protestant church, one in the Catholic Church - all with theological training that was Lutheran.


Why did I become Lutheran? There are two easy answers. One is Jennifer. DON'T UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF LOVE IN SUCH MATTERS, LOL! A lot of people in my Lutheran church are Catholic/Protestant couples who sought out something they could both embrace - and ended up Lutheran. Anyway, Jennifer is a Lutheran PK and suddenly I was more interested in worshipping with Jennifer than with Mark (or even my family). I'm sure all you over 13 know what I'm talking about. Of course, I had been to a Lutheran church before a couple of times, but that was some time ago. Now - with my pretty solid Catholic roots - it was POWERFUL. My Protestant/Catholic split was no longer split. I felt amazingly at home. And since my Catholic training at my parish and the Pieper stuff I had COMMITTED TO MEMORY (my Dad is a very, very, very hard teacher!!!) made me feel very at ease with the theology, the worship (especially with the emphasis on the Eucharist, confession, the Creed, etc.) where all things I had come to hold as precious from the CC. Anyway, it hit me - powerfully - that is is what I had become via my journey. I was Lutheran.

When Jennifer and I both went away to college (after 2 years at the same community college), we transfered to schools close by but away from "home." We decided to find a church home here together. We did NOT assume that would be Lutheran. We ended up at a small LCMS church some distance away - it's about a 45 minute drive each way on Sundays. The pastor is a GREAT theologian, VERY loving and humble, with a genuine appreciation for much in Catholicism (there must be a reason so many former Catholics are there) and with a LOVE for Lutheranism that is contagious. Plus the contemporary service is EXCELLENT and the people very embracing and evangelical.


I really don't like to think that I LEFT my home church or my Catholic church, in MANY ways, I've brought them with me. I'm just found a home where all that is a part of things. My "Protestant" roots gave me a love for Scripture, a sense of community and humility, a congregational rather than denominational focus, an ecumenical spirit. From my Catholic roots, I bring an emphasis on spirituality and life and love, a strong love for the Sacraments and for Mary, a rich sense of worship, a sense of awe before God, a knowledge that confessing and kneeling (figuratively if not literally) are good for the soul, VERY pro-life, and an awareness and appreciation for Tradition (but under - not above - Scripture). And from all those HOURS and HOURS with Pieper, well - Dad is right. No one does theology like Lutherans. I think, more than anything, what I took away from those 3 years is the need for humility. Under God. Under Scripture. A willingness to hold things in balance, in tension. A willingness to say "mystery" and "I don't know" and be okay with that. That appeals to me a lot. I studied Calvinism a bit too and while the agreement is huge, there's just a different spirit there; I like Lutherans a lot more. A humble, gentle, conservative approach to theology - with God's grace as the starting point, the ending point, and all the points inbetween.





Pax!


- Josiah

 

[DaSeminarian]

I'm a convert from liberal Protestantism and Roman Catholicism...


It's a LONG story (for a guy 19 years old, LOL) that I've told (bits and pieces) in General Theology several times, and don't really have time to detail right now, but to highlight...


My father is a pastor in a mainline liberal denomination (I honestly like to NOT get into that because then I spend all my time on line being held responsible for this denomination that I love - because it's my family - but completely disagree with). My father, however, thinks that no one does traditional, bibllical theology better than Lutherans (he teaches from Luther's Small Catechism in confirmation classes). My mother, a Lutheran PK, used Concordia materials to teach me religion as a kid (I was homeschooled, K-12 - another long story) and then my Dad used "Christian Dogmatics" by F. Pieper for my Soph - Senior religion stuff (we spent a year on each volumn). When Dad wasn't too sure about something (not being Lutheran) Mom and my Grandfather were brought in - and I found a few Lutherans via the internet (including a Prof at Concordia St. Louis who was AMAZING about answering my emails, but I've totally forgotten his name, ouch!!!). So, I have some Lutheran roots way back.


When I was in Little League, my best bud in the world was Mark (wild how guys that age can be SUCH friends - what happens to that?) Anyway, Mark and his fam were VERY Catholic (only a Catholic knows what I mean by that). All cradle Catholics, his parents had priests and nuns all over their families, when to Catholic schools K-college (they met and married at a Catholic university), and Mark also went to a Catholic school. They weren't the most conservative of Catholics (ah, there ARE "liberal" Catholics) but very involved in the parish. Anyway, Mark's family's rubric was the same as mine: Saturday sleepovers mean Sunday church! So, my first Mass was a result of that. I thought it WIERD but also interesting and inspirational. That started a nearly 5 year journey as a guest in Catholicism (I never joined). I went to Saturday Mass, the youth group and the youth Bible study there. MEANWHILE, I went to Sunday services at my Dad's church - sometimes to both services (the early Traditional one and the later "praise service"). Can't say didn't get enough religion as a kid! Didn't hurt me a bit - I LOVED it. Oh, and sometimes I'd go to Sunday or Wednesday evening services with my Baptist or Assembly of God friends (my homeschool group was in associated with a large Baptist school). It's amazing I can think stright at all (no comments!).


Thus, I had one foot in the Protestant church, one in the Catholic Church - all with theological training that was Lutheran.


Why did I become Lutheran? There are two easy answers. One is Jennifer. DON'T UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF LOVE IN SUCH MATTERS, LOL! A lot of people in my Lutheran church are Catholic/Protestant couples who sought out something they could both embrace - and ended up Lutheran. Anyway, Jennifer is a Lutheran PK and suddenly I was more interested in worshipping with Jennifer than with Mark (or even my family). I'm sure all you over 13 know what I'm talking about. Of course, I had been to a Lutheran church before a couple of times, but that was some time ago. Now - with my pretty solid Catholic roots - it was POWERFUL. My Protestant/Catholic split was no longer split. I felt amazingly at home. And since my Catholic training at my parish and the Pieper stuff I had COMMITTED TO MEMORY (my Dad is a very, very, very hard teacher!!!) made me feel very at ease with the theology, the worship (especially with the emphasis on the Eucharist, confession, the Creed, etc.) where all things I had come to hold as precious from the CC. Anyway, it hit me - powerfully - that is is what I had become via my journey. I was Lutheran.

When Jennifer and I both went away to college (after 2 years at the same community college), we transfered to schools close by but away from "home." We decided to find a church home here together. We did NOT assume that would be Lutheran. We ended up at a small LCMS church some distance away - it's about a 45 minute drive each way on Sundays. The pastor is a GREAT theologian, VERY loving and humble, with a genuine appreciation for much in Catholicism (there must be a reason so many former Catholics are there) and with a LOVE for Lutheranism that is contagious. Plus the contemporary service is EXCELLENT and the people very embracing and evangelical.


I really don't like to think that I LEFT my home church or my Catholic church, in MANY ways, I've brought them with me. I'm just found a home where all that is a part of things. My "Protestant" roots gave me a love for Scripture, a sense of community and humility, a congregational rather than denominational focus, an ecumenical spirit. From my Catholic roots, I bring an emphasis on spirituality and life and love, a strong love for the Sacraments and for Mary, a rich sense of worship, a sense of awe before God, a knowledge that confessing and kneeling (figuratively if not literally) are good for the soul, VERY pro-life, and an awareness and appreciation for Tradition (but under - not above - Scripture). And from all those HOURS and HOURS with Pieper, well - Dad is right. No one does theology like Lutherans. I think, more than anything, what I took away from those 3 years is the need for humility. Under God. Under Scripture. A willingness to hold things in balance, in tension. A willingness to say "mystery" and "I don't know" and be okay with that. That appeals to me a lot. I studied Calvinism a bit too and while the agreement is huge, there's just a different spirit there; I like Lutherans a lot more. A humble, gentle, conservative approach to theology - with God's grace as the starting point, the ending point, and all the points inbetween.





Pax!


- Josiah

One has to question why if your father is teaching Pieper and Luther that he isn't a Lutheran Pastor.

 

[DaRev]

One has to question why if your father is teaching Pieper and Luther that he isn't a Lutheran Pastor.

While I was in seminary, there was a UCC church (actually a former UCC church) in Olivet, MO that used Luther's catechism and other Lutheran materials in their catechism instruction. The only thing that kept them from becoming a Lutheran church was that they were Reformed. Nowadays, they would sound like a good candidate for the ELCA since they don't believe in much of anything anymore anyway

 

[dinkime]

While I was in seminary, there was a UCC church (actually a former UCC church) in Olivet, MO that used Luther's catechism and other Lutheran materials in their catechism instruction. The only thing that kept them from becoming a Lutheran church was that they were Reformed. Nowadays, they would sound like a good candidate for the ELCA since they don't believe in much of anything anymore anyway

interesting point! (i'd rep ya' if i could!!)

 

[IowaLutheran]

While I was in seminary, there was a UCC church (actually a former UCC church) in Olivet, MO that used Luther's catechism and other Lutheran materials in their catechism instruction. The only thing that kept them from becoming a Lutheran church was that they were Reformed. Nowadays, they would sound like a good candidate for the ELCA since they don't believe in much of anything anymore anyway

I seem to recall reading somewhere that one of the predecessor church bodies that merged into the UCC was an immigrant German evangelical church that was related to the Lutheran/Reformed union church back home in Germany, so that would possibly explain the use of Lutheran materials.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

One has to question why if your father is teaching Pieper and Luther that he isn't a Lutheran Pastor.

Even non-lutherans often are impressed with Lutheran theology. Dad uses Luther's Small Catechism in his Confirmation Classes (I understand that's not so unique). He embraces Lutheran theology the most, and while he tends to embrace some Calvinist views as well and tends to be pretty undogmatic about it all, he has studied Lutheran theology since he was given a copy of Luther's Small Catechism in Vietnam during that war. I think some Lutherans might be suprised how many nonlutherans study Lutheran theology - and agree with it. Just as we find THEOLOGICAL Calvinists in denominations where you might not expect it, so we find THEOLOGICAL Lutherans in denominations where you might not expect it. BTW, my Dad's congregation also uses CPH Sunday School materials, and he recommends CPH adult Bible study materials for the lay lead groups. A LOT of CPH's customers are not Lutherans, I suspect. I'm sure that's true of Augsburg, too.


I realize that Lutherans are VERY focused on theology and that issue is largely defining for them, but such is not the case for most Protestants. To quote an Episcopal priest, "Theology is a game Germans play," LOL. While I agree that it is critical, most don't - or at least don't see it as central and defining in their denomination. My father's denominaiton has a very long, diverse, rich heritage and a strong sense of family, but what "holds it together" is not theology (which is functionally largely undefined). I do NOT want to get into my FORMER denominations (which I love but disagree with). I consider myself solidly Lutheran now.


(Interesting, that's the one part of my story that caused an interest. Lutherans ARE very doctrine centered).



Thanks!


Pax!


- Josiah

 

[DaRev]

Perhaps that fact that most denominations don't see theology as central to their teaching explains why so many of them are straying further and further from God.

 

[KimLCMS]

Hey again! It's Kim, the thread starter

I wanted to ask anyone who has a moment to pray for the family of a little boy named Joey. He and his family are members of our church.

Joey was playing in his backyard on President's Day in a tree that had just been trimmed back. Somehow his hooded coat was caught on a large branch and he was strangled. Another member of my church is his next door neighbor; she tried to revive him but it was too late. He passed away. He was only 9 years old. His viewing and funeral are today.

Again, thank you for all your responses as to why you became Lutheran. I hope to hear more stories.

God bless you all.
Kim
</IMG>

 

[KimLCMS]

While I have a moment I'll tell the short version of my journey to the LCMS.

In elementary school, I was baptised and later confirmed in the RCC. Unfortunately, My catechism was not at all good. I was completely clueless about the beliefs and practices of the church. For example in preparation for my confirmation, we played "Scruples" every week in class. No one even bothered to teach us how to pray the rosery, which is pretty basic stuff in the RCC.

My mom stopped taking us to church after confirmation. Fast forward a bit..... My husband and I started dating in high school. In college we started to go to church some here and there. We visited several churches. We wanted to be members of a church that we could be married in and stay in for the long haul. We became members of a souther baptist church. We were both baptised again ( you have to have a believer's baptism and be immersed to become a member ) and then married in that church. We stayed there for 7 years. We learned a lot. There were some not so Christian things happening in the church leadership when we decided to leave. My husband and I were also doing personal Bible study at the time. We were studying the Lord's Supper and came to the conclusion that it was not supposed to be "just symbolic."

We settled at a local LCMS congregation. We've been members there since 2002. We just love it there. Our pastor met with us a few times privately and then we attended the discovery classes to help us decided on whether or not to become members. Our church has been a real blessing to our family over these past five years.

That's about it I guess!
Kim

 

[LilLamb219]

Perhaps that fact that most denominations don't see theology as central to their teaching explains why so many of them are straying further and further from God.

Especially since the definition of theology is the study of God

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Perhaps that fact that most denominations don't see theology as central to their teaching explains why so many of them are straying further and further from God.

True enough, although I think I was misunderstood...


Mods, please allow this diversion (LOL)...



I did not mean to imply that many Protestants do not consider Theology central to their teaching (???), but rather that they don't all consider it central to their identity - to the issue of who we are as a community.

Lutherans do. Witness this thjread. Except for a few comments about bratwurst and pretty girls, it's all about theology. With the exception of very conservative Reformed denominations, I know of no other that is so focused on theology as the core of their self-identity. Catholics certainly can be passionate about such things, but it's not at all central to them - the church is, their professed "connection" with the Apostles and as the church He founded. An episcopal priest once told me, "theology is a game Germans play" and he had a point.

Other denominations may place, at their focus, a heritage or spirituality or a tradition of ministry as key to who they are - not at the exclusion of theological dogmas of course; it's always a package of things that defines a group - but again, I note that Lutherans always stress "this is what we believe, teach and confess" whereas others begin with some other aspect of that package of indentity.

Let me try this illustration. If you were to ask me, "Who is Josiah?" The first thing I'd mention and the point I'd stress is that I'm a Christian. But there are many other aspects to me - I'm a male, I'm an American, I'm a college student, I'm in love, I'm a singer, I'm a son and brother, etc., etc., etc. Perhaps if my self-identity was a tad different, I'd start with I'm a son and brother.

I think Lutherans are STRONGLY theology centered. It's strongly how they see and define themselves - very strongly. I'm not making any value judgements about that, one way or the other, I just think it's true.


Sorry for the diversion.
Back to the EXCELLENT topic!!!!


Pax!


- Josiah

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

No one does theology like Lutherans. I think, more than anything, what I took away from those 3 years is the need for humility. Under God. Under Scripture. A willingness to hold things in balance, in tension. A willingness to say "mystery" and "I don't know" and be okay with that. That appeals to me a lot. I studied Calvinism a bit too and while the agreement is huge, there's just a different spirit there; I like Lutherans a lot more. A humble, gentle, conservative approach to theology - with God's grace as the starting point, the ending point, and all the points inbetween.

I think Lutherans are STRONGLY theology centered. It's strongly how they see and define themselves - very strongly. I'm not making any value judgements about that, one way or the other, I just think it's true.

Thank you, Josiah! You've just given me what I needed to decide to be a Lutheran! A denomination that is strongly theology centered, and takes "a humble, gentle, conservative approach to theology" is exactly what I've been looking for!

Of course there's still the matter of finding the right Lutheran church in my area. And I may be too liberal for LCMS and too conservative for ELCA.

I guess I'll just have to check some out for myself and hope to find a LCMS church that's more liberal than typical, or an ELCA church that's on the conservative side.

 

[Plutonius]

Ok since I am a relatively new Lutheran I will tell you. I was originally in a mainline protestant denomination, why, well because that is were my family went. I disliked it on several grounds, most importantly on how they viewed baptism and communion as simply symbols, thus sometimes they really did not respect the elements. Next I left because I really love hymns and liturgy, and I simply cannot connect with contemporary music, it just doesn`t seem right to me. That is just a few of some of the many other issues I had with it.So I researched before I went to any denomination, took the ol denomination selector (Yes, LCMS was number 1 )and since the ELCA was way to progressive for me, here I am. I just absolutely love it, the liturgy, hymns, creeds, everything just makes it WONDERFUL!

 

[DaRev]

I guess I'll just have to check some out for myself and hope to find a LCMS church that's more liberal than typical, or an ELCA church that's on the conservative side.

I think the term "conservative ELCA" is an oxymoron. Even the most "conservative" ELCA folk are pro- women's ordination and pro-open communion, both of which are anti-Biblical practices. And they are still in fellowship with church bodies that deny the inerrancy of God's word, support abortion on demand, ordain practicing homosexuals, and even deny the Trinity.


If I may ask, what makes you desire a "liberal" church?

 

[DaRev]

Ok since I am a relatively new Lutheran I will tell you. I was originally in a mainline protestant denomination, why, well because that is were my family went. I disliked it on several grounds, most importantly on how they viewed baptism and communion as simply symbols, thus sometimes they really did not respect the elements. Next I left because I really love hymns and liturgy, and I simply cannot connect with contemporary music, it just doesn`t seem right to me. That is just a few of some of the many other issues I had with it.So I researched before I went to any denomination, took the ol denomination selector (Yes, LCMS was number 1 )and since the ELCA was way to progressive for me, here I am. I just absolutely love it, the liturgy, hymns, creeds, everything just makes it WONDERFUL!

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

I think the term "conservative ELCA" is an oxymoron. Even the most "conservative" ELCA folk are pro- women's ordination and pro-open communion, both of which are anti-Biblical practices. And they are still in fellowship with church bodies that deny the inerrancy of God's word, support abortion on demand, ordain practicing homosexuals, and even deny the Trinity.


If I may ask, what makes you desire a "liberal" church?

First, let me say I've really enjoyed your posts. Your information, your friendliness and your sense of humor are all much appreciated.

Still, on some of these issues you and I disagree. But bearing in mind that outsiders aren't supposed to debate here, and I am not yet a Lutheran, only strongly considering it, I'll limit myself to just explaining what my positions are and try not to get into arguing for them.

So far as women's ordination, it seems you and I are on opposite sides. From what I've seen, some women make excellent preachers and pastors. On open communion, I can see both sides and respect both sides. On the question of inerrancy, the official ELCA position is totally in line with what I personally believe.

I don't like abortion on demand, but I also don't like a strict pro-life position. But any church that denies the Trinity is not for me. I don't necessarily have a problem with the ordination of homosexuals; I wouldn't endorse it, but it isn't a big issue for me one way or the other.

What bodies are they in fellowship with that you object to? I'd like to check into that. Too much liberal political activism in a church doesn't work for me, since politically I'm a conservative libertarian.

All things considered, I wouldn't say it's a "liberal" church I'm looking for, but one that isn't too conservative and isn't too liberal. Given all that, where would you say I fit in? Could the LCMS still be right for me?

 

[porterross]

Ok since I am a relatively new Lutheran I will tell you. I was originally in a mainline protestant denomination, why, well because that is were my family went. I disliked it on several grounds, most importantly on how they viewed baptism and communion as simply symbols, thus sometimes they really did not respect the elements. Next I left because I really love hymns and liturgy, and I simply cannot connect with contemporary music, it just doesn`t seem right to me. That is just a few of some of the many other issues I had with it.So I researched before I went to any denomination, took the ol denomination selector (Yes, LCMS was number 1 )and since the ELCA was way to progressive for me, here I am. I just absolutely love it, the liturgy, hymns, creeds, everything just makes it WONDERFUL!

You are wise beyond your years, Plutonius....WELCOME!

Some of us were fortunate enough to have been raised in the LCMS and although I left the seeds unattended for too long, God did not let them go unnourished and I am and will be eternally grateful for the solid foundation and continuing blessed worship and adherence to the Confessions.