Why did you become a Lutheran?

[Plutonius]

You are wise beyond your years, Plutonius....WELCOME!

Some of us were fortunate enough to have been raised in the LCMS and although I left the seeds unattended for too long, God did not let them go unnourished and I am and will be eternally grateful for the solid foundation and continuing blessed worship and adherence to the Confessions.

Thank you,
I do envoy those who were born into the LCMS, lucky people. Oh well, life is not perfect

 

[DaRev]

So far as women's ordination, it seems you and I are on opposite sides. From what I've seen, some women make excellent preachers and pastors.

Well, my position is the one taught in Scripture. God does not call women to be pastors. God's word is very clear on this. We have to remember that it's not what we want or think, but rather what God wants, and He has told us this in His word. It really cannot be disputed without tearing down Scripture.

On open communion, I can see both sides and respect both sides.

Open Communion also goes against what Scripture teaches. It is an unloving, uncaring practice that allows people to committ a sin at the altar of God.

On the question of inerrancy, the official ELCA position is totally in line with what I personally believe.

It's what Satan said to Eve, "Did God really say...?" That is the problem with the ELCA's view of Scripture. They have totally twisted it to say what they want it to say to justify their heterodoxy. They have basically disclaimed a majority of what Paul wrote under Spiritual inspiration, thus justifying their practices of women's ordination, open communion, homosexual tolerance, and supoort of abortion on demand. Their higher/historical-critical interpretation of the Bible tears down God's word and turns it into mere human opinion.

I don't like abortion on demand, but I also don't like a strict pro-life position.

Which means what exactly?

But any church that denies the Trinity is not for me. I don't necessarily have a problem with the ordination of homosexuals; I wouldn't endorse it, but it isn't a big issue for me one way or the other.

Again, according the God's word, homosexuality is inherantly sinful. The homosexual lifestyle is a lifestyle of unrepentance. Unrepentant sin cannot and is not forgiven. How can someone who is openly (or even hiddenly) living in a state of unrepentant sin, and a sin that God Himself calls an abomination and those who practice such will not enter the Kingdom of heaven, possibly be a pastor of God's people. It is indeed a big issue for the Church.

What bodies are they in fellowship with that you object to? I'd like to check into that. Too much liberal political activism in a church doesn't work for me, since politically I'm a conservative libertarian.

The ELCA is in altar fellowship with several Reformed church bodies (PC-USA, RCA, UCC, UMC) which reject the doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ's body and blood in the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper. The Lutheran Confessions clearly state that Lutherans reject all who teach contrary to the Real Presence. The ELCA is actively allowing people to sin and bring judgement upon themselves because they don't discern the Lord's body according to 1 Corinthians 11.

Among that group is the United Church of Christ which does not require its clergy to believe in the Trinity. By entering into full fellowship, the ELCA is basically saying that it is not necessary to believe in the Triune God. There is no other god. One cannot be a Christian without believing in the Trinity. Therefore, the ELCA is in fellowship with a semi-Christian cult.

All things considered, I wouldn't say it's a "liberal" church I'm looking for, but one that isn't too conservative and isn't too liberal. Given all that, where would you say I fit in? Could the LCMS still be right for me?

I could not say so. Your positions as you have explained them above are not at all in line with what the Lutheran Church holds, teaches, and confesses. If you truly believe in the unBiblical practices of women's ordination, open communion, and homosexual tolerance in the clergy, then the LCMS wouldn't be the right fit for you.

If you are open and willing to study these teachings and practices to understand what the Scriptures say about these issues, then you should persue that in an LCMS church.

 

[Plutonius]

Well, my position is the one taught in Scripture. God does not call women to be pastors. God's word is very clear on this. We have to remember that it's not what we want or think, but rather what God wants, and He has told us this in His word. It really cannot be disputed without tearing down Scripture.



Open Communion also goes against what Scripture teaches. It is an unloving, uncaring practice that allows people to committ a sin at the altar of God.



It's what Satan said to Eve, "Did God really say...?" That is the problem with the ELCA's view of Scripture. They have totally twisted it to say what they want it to say to justify their heterodoxy. They have basically disclaimed a majority of what Paul wrote under Spiritual inspiration, thus justifying their practices of women's ordination, open communion, homosexual tolerance, and supoort of abortion on demand. Their higher/historical-critical interpretation of the Bible tears down God's word and turns it into mere human opinion.



Which means what exactly?



Again, according the God's word, homosexuality is inherantly sinful. The homosexual lifestyle is a lifestyle of unrepentance. Unrepentant sin cannot and is not forgiven. How can someone who is openly (or even hiddenly) living in a state of unrepentant sin, and a sin that God Himself calls an abomination and those who practice such will not enter the Kingdom of heaven, possibly be a pastor of God's people. It is indeed a big issue for the Church.



The ELCA is in altar fellowship with several Reformed church bodies (PC-USA, RCA, UCC, UMC) which reject the doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ's body and blood in the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper. The Lutheran Confessions clearly state that Lutherans reject all who teach contrary to the Real Presence. The ELCA is actively allowing people to sin and bring judgement upon themselves because they don't discern the Lord's body according to 1 Corinthians 11.

Among that group is the United Church of Christ which does not require its clergy to believe in the Trinity. By entering into full fellowship, the ELCA is basically saying that it is not necessary to believe in the Triune God. There is no other god. One cannot be a Christian without believing in the Trinity. Therefore, the ELCA is in fellowship with a semi-Christian cult.



I could not say so. Your positions as you have explained them above are not at all in line with what the Lutheran Church holds, teaches, and confesses. If you truly believe in the unBiblical practices of women's ordination, open communion, and homosexual tolerance in the clergy, then the LCMS wouldn't be the right fit for you.

If you are open and willing to study these teachings and practices to understand what the Scriptures say about these issues, then you should persue that in an LCMS church.

Basically why I decided to go to LCMS instead of ELCA.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Thank you, DaRev.

That's a good honest answer, and I appreciate your taking the time to respond. I could debate some of that stuff with you, but according to the forum rules this isn't the place for it, and well, I'm not generally a contentious person. Perhaps we'll have the chance to discuss some of it later in other CF forums. The important thing is, you confirmed what I already suspected, that I would fit better in the ELCA. And yes, of course, I'm willing to study and learn more, and as I do my opinions may change. But as of this moment, I don't seem to be an LCMS kind of person.

 

[DaSeminarian]

All things considered, I wouldn't say it's a "liberal" church I'm looking for, but one that isn't too conservative and isn't too liberal. Given all that, where would you say I fit in? Could the LCMS still be right for me?

Have you read Revelation 3? By saying that you are not looking for too conservative or too liberal you mean moderate. The problem with identifying where you belong is that you accept way too much gray area in your views on the issues you mentioned in your post.

I agree 100% with DaRev on everything he said.

I think you need to firm yourself up on some issues if you want a church that is not too liberal. Moderates tend to err on the side of liberality more than conservatism.

 

[DaRev]

Thank you, DaRev.

That's a good honest answer, and I appreciate your taking the time to respond. I could debate some of that stuff with you, but according to the forum rules this isn't the place for it, and well, I'm not generally a contentious person. Perhaps we'll have the chance to discuss some of it later in other CF forums. The important thing is, you confirmed what I already suspected, that I would fit better in the ELCA. And yes, of course, I'm willing to study and learn more, and as I do my opinions may change. But as of this moment, I don't seem to be an LCMS kind of person.

It is my prayer that the Holy Spirit lead you to all truth. I just don't believe the ELCA has it.

God bless you on your faith journey.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Have you read Revelation 3? By saying that you are not looking for too conservative or too liberal you mean moderate. The problem with identifying where you belong is that you accept way too much gray area in your views on the issues you mentioned in your post.

I agree 100% with DaRev on everything he said.

I think you need to firm yourself up on some issues if you want a church that is not too liberal. Moderates tend to err on the side of liberality more than conservatism.

Thank you, Luther. I appreciate your insights.

Yes, "moderate" is what I'm looking for, but not lukewarm or wishy-washy. On the basics of the faith, as contained in the Nicene Creed, Apostles' Creed, etc., I'm probably as conservative as any of you. But I tend to agree with the liberals on the other issues we've been discussing, so I guess I'll go take up residence on the ELCA side, which is apparently where I belong. But I will stop by for a visit here now and then; there's some good people here.

 

[LilLamb219]

When will you be joining an ELCA congregation?

Edited because I didn't realize where I was (forum wise)
LOL.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

When will you be joining an ELCA congregation?

Edited because I didn't realize where I was (forum wise)
LOL.

We shall see. I have a number of local churches to try out before I make up my mind. Two are ELCA and one is ECC (Lutheran in origin, though it split off in 1885; the services do still seem to have something of a Lutheran flavor). There doesn't seem to be an LCMS church nearby. I'm sure I could find one but I'd have to go further afield.

 

[porterross]

There doesn't seem to be an LCMS church nearby. I'm sure I could find one but I'd have to go further afield.

The best things are worth seeking out. Look to Moses as an example of that.
The truth is there, waiting for you to find it. May God guide your steps.