Why did the early Christians hate Democracy?

[JIMINZ]

Sounds pacifist to me. Upon reading the Bible, I have not come to the conclusion that Christianity is pacifist. The position of the Christian is not only to pray, but to speak out boldly against injustice. To change society.

OK, I didn't expound on it, my point was Christians should not Vote, period.

 

[shagsnacks]

I'd love to see a Biblical explanation for that!

 

[grasping the after wind]

OK, I didn't expound on it, my point was Christians should not Vote, period.

I would like to see the rationale behind this extreme position that contradicts Pauline doctrine on Christian behavior as it pertains to government.

 

[JIMINZ]

I'd love to see a Biblical explanation for that!

If your talking to me and I am guessing you are.

I would love to see a Biblical explanation supporting Christians Voting.

 

[JIMINZ]

I would like to see the rationale behind this extreme position that contradicts Pauline doctrine on Christian behavior as it pertains to government.

I don't see any Pauline Doctrine from you supporting your espoused position.
Or refuting mine.

 

[Not David]

I disagree. People don't vote out of laziness or apathy not out of any opinion of the efficacy of democracy.
As a matter of fact, this is how some people see government bureaucrats or how they view people that are described to them as "experts".

What happens is that Americans don't like talking about Politics. I remember I mentioned I went to a protest once to a group of friends and they say "I don't want to talk about politics".

 

[Aussie Pete]

Good quote. Can't say I agree though. It's just the worst form of government. An empire is far better, in my eyes. And I think the early church would agree.

So you'd rather a dictatorship? I'm not that the North Koreans would agree.

 

[timothyu]

Not quite. I think Augustine expounded on this passage the best. And empires are best equipped to do just that.

Augustine was after gentile dominated Christianity whored itself back to the Roman empire, so obviously empire would play a part in their game and the further formation of their religion. They rejected the Kingdom for a partnership with the Empire and it wasn't the empire whose ideals changed as a result.

 

[Aussie Pete]

I disagree. People don't vote out of laziness or apathy not out of any opinion of the efficacy of democracy.
As a matter of fact, this is how some people see government bureaucrats or how they view people that are described to them as "experts".

Public servants are not necessarily incompetent but the "Monarch of the Sea" was based on a real appointment. Having been through the bureaucratic wringer myself, I've experienced the worst. But it was a bureaucrat who got me out of the minefield. I'd tell you the story but you would think I was making it up.

 

[timothyu]

The position of the Christian is not only to pray, but to speak out boldly against injustice. To change society.

Yes but not through someone else's politics. They do it (change society) by giving of themselves and loving all as self. Man cannot fix what man destroys because regardless of what man does it is all for the same motivation of self. Only the ways of the counter-culture of the Kingdom can counteract the evils that men do.

 

[Aussie Pete]

In some cases, true enough. But, for one, that's because we have a society of convenience. A society that makes people lazy. But, I mean, look at this election. How many do you think are going to sit out because they can't bring themselves to vote for either Trump or Biden? I know that was true of me in the last election. I don't think I'd have been able to sleep at night had I voted for either Trump or Clinton.

But I don't think it's laziness. I think it's because politicians don't give the people a reason to vote for them.

Agreed, that's why it's compulsory in Australia. I'm not sure why anyone would want to vote for union hacks and lawyers, people who've never had a real job in their lives.

 

[timothyu]

I'm not sure why anyone would want to vote for union hacks and lawyers, people who've never had a real job in their lives.

Even parasites are to be loved as self

 

[Aussie Pete]

Even parasites are to be loved as self

True

 

[grasping the after wind]

I don't see any Pauline Doctrine from you supporting your espoused position.
Or refuting mine.

Romans 13 New King James Version (NKJV)
Submit to Government
13 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.

 

[grasping the after wind]

What happens is that Americans don't like talking about Politics. I remember I mentioned I went to a protest once to a group of friends and they say "I don't want to talk about politics".

You were in a very atypical group. Americans never cease to argue about politics. Just look at the CF American Politics forum

 

[grasping the after wind]

Public servants are not necessarily incompetent but the "Monarch of the Sea" was based on a real appointment. Having been through the bureaucratic wringer myself, I've experienced the worst. But it was a bureaucrat who got me out of the minefield. I'd tell you the story but you would think I was making it up.

I have no reason to assume you are a dishonest person.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Even parasites are to be loved as self

Love and masochism are not equivalent ideas.

 

[shagsnacks]

If your talking to me and I am guessing you are.

I would love to see a Biblical explanation supporting Christians Voting.

It's pretty simple. Things that the Bible doesn't forbid are acceptable.

 

[timothyu]

Things that the Bible doesn't forbid are acceptable.

So choosing the governance(Kingdom) of God over the governance of man means what?

 

[shagsnacks]

I think that's a bit of a false dichotomy. It's not "one or the other", unless the government of man comes in conflict with the Kingdom of God. Part of the Kingdom of God includes submission to authorities, because God has put them in their place. Sure, I get that you're arguing we shouldn't have anything to do with the government. But I don't recall Jesus telling any Roman soldiers to stop being soldiers. They were part of the government. And Jesus dined with politicians, (publicans). So I'm not persuaded that we should have no part in government. I think we should be wherever we can do the most good.