Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Thanks Mark for the insightful comments. Excellent and to the point.The Bible says one should not put new wine in old wine-skins; why? New wine will ferment due to the natural yeast present on the grapes while still on the vine. New skins will stretch and not burst, old skins are all ready stretched, and will burst, losing their contents. Old wine, on the other hand, can be put in old skins, because the fermentation is complete.
Many studies have conducted in France, Spain and elsewhere, that have shown reduced cardio-vascular disease despite high fat and high cholesterol in their diets as well as other benefits. The variable identified was higher and more regular consumption of red wine compared to North America.
Links, if you are truly interested: Red wine
Your Diet - Food - 4Health from Channel 4
HEALTH BENEFITS OF WINE | Unique Articles
...And there are many others.
This is pure speculation on my part, but could the "stomach" problems have been angina, which feels similar to heart burn?
Pure speculation also; neither of these faithful saints would have any knowlege of anatomy and physyology... "have some wine for your heart" "...but my gut hurts!"Thanks Mark for the insightful comments. Excellent and to the point.
Angina? Well, since scripture is inspired, and even though written through the eyes of Paul (and others), would not God have led him to say "heart" instead of "stomach" if it were so? I don't know. It is an interesting question.
Wine made from unpasteurized juice and which has not been "stabilized" the way many modern wines are are full of yeast, enzymes, and bacteria such as lacto-bacilli, bifido-bacterium, lacto coccus etc... pre-biotics and pro-biotics. Good stuff for the gut; and all the rage today!
They didn't have suppliments in Timothy's day. :oYes, and all of this "good stuff" is easily obtained in other products such as suppliments without having to ingest ALCOHOL...
I thought this thread was about wine (old/new)? Now are we turning it strictly to ALCOHOL?? That's a different topic.So....what do the health studies say about ALCOHOL itself???
They didn't have suppliments in Timothy's day.
I thought this thread was about wine (old/new)? Now are we turning it strictly to ALCOHOL?? That's a different topic.
The funny thing is that...it's not even proven Paul was telling Timothy to drink fermented juice!
And... if that is indeed the case, the this whole discussion is moot.
As the cop's say... "move along; nothing to see here".
Yes, and all of this "good stuff" is easily obtained in other products such as suppliments without having to ingest ALCOHOL...whassup with Christians wanting to drink ALCOHOL anyway???
So....what do the health studies say about ALCOHOL itself???
I know they have those too...why don't people cite those findings?
amen..... good WORD and good science Mark.....As to the first part of your post; we enjoy the bounty of creation, which is a gift from God!
As for the later part of your post; lot's of studies which prove excessive consumption of alcohol can and will kill you... and disrupt your life and the lives of those around you. (to this I can speak first hand having worked as an autopsy assistant in a large, big city hospital while in College, I also worked for many years as an embalmer and Funeral Director; add to this that my father was an alcoholic, who's over consumption lead directly to his death).
Moderation is the key. Gluttons eat themselves to death. Workaholics work themselves to death. The Bible exhorts us to be good stewards of what is given to us. Abuse and over indulgence in everything are indeed sins; sins which we are all guilty of from time to time; yet sinners we are and through repentance God forgives. Try as we may, we stumble daily; so daily we must repent, and daily we are forgiven. Praise be to our Lord Jesus Christ!
Thanks for your comments.
I do not know which version I read but the version which I read also had "only" in it. Does this mean that only isn't in the "original" text?
And another thing which I also asked myself which you also addressed is the little. If Paul was telling Timothy to stop drinking dirty water completely then my thought was that if Timothy instead switches to wine then drinking a little wine wouldn't be enough to survive. For example if Timothy drank nothing but one glass of wine every day then it wouldn't be enoug liquid. If on the other hand Timothy started drinking like 2 litres of wine every day then he might have gotten drunk if the wine was as strong as our wine today. Maybe the little really refers to the strength of the wine this would make the most sense. But it's still a lot of speculation. I wish this was clearer.
And another thing I also don't understand is, why didn't Paul simply tell Timothy to claim his healing or to pray over the dirty water for it to be made clean or to do anything along these lines? After all Jesus also said that no deadly thing would harm them if they drink it. Why didn't Paul tell Timothy to just proclaim this promise and to stand on it?
That's also one problem which I have with wof theology because a lot of the things which they say we must do like commanding sicknesses to go or speaking to a sickness are things which Paul never did or mentioned. Why didn't Paul simply tell Timothy to speak to his infirmities and to be made whole? Somehow this doesn't really fit together. It's as if there is a difference between how Jesus handled diseases and how Paul handled diseases.
The whole debate about healing would never have come up if Paul had only once said something like "just claim your healing" or "speak to your sickness" or "healing belongs to us". Why didn't he just say it? This would have ended all guessing and arguing about healing.
While your points are valid in general....did timothy need a healing?.... was he sick?..... maybe it was just a common sense solution to effect good digestion...... people who eat a lot of fatty foods help their digestion with wine or antacids etc..... they aren't sick and need a healing..... they just need to compensate for their food choices.....
i agree.... especially considering cloths and objects that had touched paul healed the sick..... and outstanding miracles were done through him..... he would be the one who knew the power of GOD to heal ANYTHING.....While your points are valid in general....
1Ti 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.Paul tells Timothy to drink a little wine "for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities."
The word infirmities (ασθένεια - astheneia) is a Greek word that means a disease or sickness; a weakness. This is not a "normal" condition, or even indigestion by its implication. It comes from a root word (asthenēs) which indicates a lack of strength, feeble.
It is used about 24 times in scripture; interestingly, in this rendering (astheneias) it appears 3 times: here in 1 Tim 5:23, Acts 28:9 and Matt 8:17...
17 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying:...which of course we talked about elsewhere as a key verse tying back to Isaiah showing that Jesus heals our sicknesses and diseases, and that that healing is available in the atonement.
“ He Himself took our infirmities
And bore our sicknesses.”
The bigger question is why Paul didn't tell Timothy to belief for healing. And, personally (conjecture warning!), I think it is because Timothy ate wrong and needed to focus on his physical diet prior to focusing on spiritual healing. Kinda like eating Twinkies all day and then expecting God to heal you of the problems that will likely come from it. Then after a mercy healing, you go back to eating Twinkies all day and then expect God to.....
Nope. Little Debbie Swiss Rolls are from Heaven.So wait... are you saying... Twinkies are not God's best?
Nope. Little Debbie Swiss Rolls are from Heaven.
I agree to this too!! Just had some homemade a couple days ago.or how about some angel food cake with strawberries?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?