Why did Jesus die for humans and not angels?

[Sammy-San]

Neither deserves salvation.

 

[bekkilyn]

Angels already live with God in heaven and are in no need of salvation as they never sinned and have no sin nature. Humans are fallen and therefore sinful and in need of redemption. It is only by God's grace alone that humans who are willing to receive Christ as Lord and Savior are saved.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Angels already live with God in heaven and are in no need of salvation as they never sinned and have no sin nature. Humans are fallen and therefore sinful and in need of redemption. It is only by God's grace alone that humans who are willing to receive Christ as Lord and Savior are saved.

There are angels that sinned. Lord Jesus did not die to redeem them.

 

[bekkilyn]

There are angels that sinned. Lord Jesus did not die to redeem them.

I was thinking only of the heavenly angels. As for Satan and his followers, we simply don't know if God may have some redemptive plan for them other than what is written in our scriptures that concern humanity, but from what we do know in scripture, the Satanic angels are too far gone and would never turn back to God.

 

[Long Beard]

Have you considered why Jesus had to die at all? Could he not have forgiven sins in a way that did not require his death? ... or is there a specific reason why according to his law that he himself had to die?

Interesting.

 

[Sammy-San]

Have you considered why Jesus had to die at all? Could he not have forgiven sins in a way that did not require his death? ... or is there a specific reason why according to his law that he himself had to die?

Interesting.

Jesus wasnt obligated to die for anyone or any angel.

 

[Long Beard]

Jesus wasnt obligated to die for anyone or any angel.

You are correct... his obligation was only by his own Word and his own design... and he has a reason for every one of his designs.

What do you think?

 

[Sammy-San]

I was thinking only of the heavenly angels. As for Satan and his followers, we simply don't know if God may have some redemptive plan for them other than what is written in our scriptures that concern humanity, but from what we do know in scripture, the Satanic angels are too far gone and would never turn back to God.

why do you think that?

 

[Long Beard]

I see... the only salvation I know of is that given to Israel... by that I mean the seed of Abraham... those of faith.

Hebrews 2:14-16 KJV
(14) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
(15) And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
(16) For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

That compare and contrast in verse 16 seems significant.

Just something to consider in that Satan is thrown into the all consuming Lake of Fire along with death and hell (hades)... (Rev 20)

It doesn't look good for Satan... but your musing is about fallen angels... which I understand those to be the ones locked presently in Tartarus (2 Peter 2:4). I am aware of people who make a good argument for some type of redemption for them... but I do not pursue that study.

I apologize if I misunderstood your post.

 

[bekkilyn]

why do you think that?

Well our scripture states that Satan and his fallen angels will ultimately be cast into the lake of fire, so if we are basing our thinking on scripture alone, it would appear that Satan and his followers are too far gone for redemption and would never turn back to God and their judgment is already determined.

However, our God is ever merciful as well as just and is not limited by scripture, so it is always possible that he has a plan of redemption even for fallen angels that he never revealed to humanity and could change his mind about the lake of fire should they ever come to repent, just like he changed his mind about destroying Nineveh after they chose to repent.

 

[Sammy-San]

Well our scripture states that Satan and his fallen angels will ultimately be cast into the lake of fire, so if we are basing our thinking on scripture alone, it would appear that Satan and his followers are too far gone for redemption and would never turn back to God and their judgment is already determined.

However, our God is ever merciful as well as just and is not limited by scripture, so it is always possible that he has a plan of redemption even for fallen angels that he never revealed to humanity and could change his mind about the lake of fire should they ever come to repent, just like he changed his mind about destroying Nineveh after they chose to repent.

Well our scripture states that Satan and his fallen angels will ultimately be cast into the lake of fire, so if we are basing our thinking on scripture alone, it would appear that Satan and his followers are too far gone for redemption and would never turn back to God and their judgment is already determined.

However, our God is ever merciful as well as just and is not limited by scripture, so it is always possible that he has a plan of redemption even for fallen angels that he never revealed to humanity and could change his mind about the lake of fire should they ever come to repent, just like he changed his mind about destroying Nineveh after they chose to repent.

Too far gone for redemption means? They might not be in Gods image.

 

[Sammy-San]

I see... the only salvation I know of is that given to Israel... by that I mean the seed of Abraham... those of faith.

Hebrews 2:14-16 KJV
(14) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
(15) And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
(16) For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

That compare and contrast in verse 16 seems significant.

Just something to consider in that Satan is thrown into the all consuming Lake of Fire along with death and hell (hades)... (Rev 20)

It doesn't look good for Satan... but your musing is about fallen angels... which I understand those to be the ones locked presently in Tartarus (2 Peter 2:4). I am aware of people who make a good argument for some type of redemption for them... but I do not pursue that study.

I apologize if I misunderstood your post.

Does the KJV say help?

 

[bekkilyn]

Too far gone for redemption means? They might not be in Gods image.

Too far gone in that their hearts are so completely hardened against God and so would never willfully choose to submit to him.

 

[Sammy-San]

Too far gone in that their hearts are so completely hardened against God and so would never willfully choose to submit to him.

Why do you think they wouldnt want to be restored to paradise?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Neither deserves salvation.

Psalm 89:5-7 New International Version (NIV)
5 The heavens praise your wonders, Lord,
your faithfulness too, in the assembly of the holy ones.
6 For who in the skies above can compare with the Lord?
Who is like the Lord among the heavenly beings?
7 In the council of the holy ones God is greatly feared;
he is more awesome than all who surround him.

1 Kings 22:19-23 Good News Translation (GNT)
19 Micaiah went on: “Now listen to what the Lord says! I saw the Lord sitting on his throne in heaven, with all his angels standing beside him. 20 The Lord asked, ‘Who will deceive Ahab so that he will go and be killed at Ramoth?’ Some of the angels said one thing, and others said something else, 21 until a spirit stepped forward, approached the Lord, and said, ‘I will deceive him.’ 22 ‘How?’ the Lord asked. The spirit replied, ‘I will go and make all of Ahab's prophets tell lies.’ The Lord said, ‘Go and deceive him. You will succeed.’”

23 And Micaiah concluded: “This is what has happened. The Lord has made these prophets of yours lie to you. But he himself has decreed that you will meet with disaster!”

Psalm 89:6 Good News Translation (GNT)
6 No one in heaven is like you, Lord;
none of the heavenly beings is your equal.

Daniel 7:9-10 Good News Translation (GNT)
The Vision of the One Who Has Been Living Forever
9 While I was looking, thrones were put in place. One who had been living forever sat down on one of the thrones. His clothes were white as snow, and his hair was like pure wool. His throne, mounted on fiery wheels, was blazing with fire, 10 and a stream of fire was pouring out from it. There were many thousands of people there to serve him, and millions of people stood before him. The court began its session, and the books were opened.

Daniel 4:13-24 Good News Translation (GNT)
13 “While I was thinking about the vision, I saw coming down from heaven an angel, alert and watchful. 14 He proclaimed in a loud voice, ‘Cut the tree down and chop off its branches; strip off its leaves and scatter its fruit. Drive the animals from under it and the birds out of its branches. 15 But leave the stump in the ground with a band of iron and bronze around it. Leave it there in the field with the grass.

“‘Now let the dew fall on this man, and let him live with the animals and the plants. 16 For seven years he will not have a human mind, but the mind of an animal. 17 This is the decision of the alert and watchful angels. So then, let all people everywhere know that the Supreme God has power over human kingdoms and that he can give them to anyone he chooses—even to those who are least important.’

18 “This is the dream I had,” said King Nebuchadnezzar. “Now, Belteshazzar, tell me what it means. None of my royal advisers could tell me, but you can, because the spirit of the holy gods is in you.”

19 At this, Daniel, who is also called Belteshazzar, was so alarmed that he could not say anything. The king said to him, “Belteshazzar, don't let the dream and its message alarm you.”

Belteshazzar replied, “Your Majesty, I wish that the dream and its explanation applied to your enemies and not to you. 20 The tree, so tall that it reached the sky, could be seen by everyone in the world. 21 Its leaves were beautiful, and it had enough fruit on it to feed the whole world. Wild animals rested under it, and birds made their nests in its branches.

22 “Your Majesty, you are the tree, tall and strong. You have grown so great that you reach the sky, and your power extends over the whole world. 23 While Your Majesty was watching, an angel came down from heaven and said, ‘Cut the tree down and destroy it, but leave the stump in the ground. Wrap a band of iron and bronze around it, and leave it there in the field with the grass. Let the dew fall on this man, and let him live there with the animals for seven years.’

24 “This, then, is what it means, Your Majesty, and this is what the Supreme God has declared will happen to you.

See also, Job 1

Angels had greater authority and responsibility at the time of their fall.

 

[Sammy-San]

Psalm 89:5-7 New International Version (NIV)
5 The heavens praise your wonders, Lord,
your faithfulness too, in the assembly of the holy ones.
6 For who in the skies above can compare with the Lord?
Who is like the Lord among the heavenly beings?
7 In the council of the holy ones God is greatly feared;
he is more awesome than all who surround him.

1 Kings 22:19-23 Good News Translation (GNT)
19 Micaiah went on: “Now listen to what the Lord says! I saw the Lord sitting on his throne in heaven, with all his angels standing beside him. 20 The Lord asked, ‘Who will deceive Ahab so that he will go and be killed at Ramoth?’ Some of the angels said one thing, and others said something else, 21 until a spirit stepped forward, approached the Lord, and said, ‘I will deceive him.’ 22 ‘How?’ the Lord asked. The spirit replied, ‘I will go and make all of Ahab's prophets tell lies.’ The Lord said, ‘Go and deceive him. You will succeed.’”

23 And Micaiah concluded: “This is what has happened. The Lord has made these prophets of yours lie to you. But he himself has decreed that you will meet with disaster!”

Psalm 89:6 Good News Translation (GNT)
6 No one in heaven is like you, Lord;
none of the heavenly beings is your equal.

Daniel 7:9-10 Good News Translation (GNT)
The Vision of the One Who Has Been Living Forever
9 While I was looking, thrones were put in place. One who had been living forever sat down on one of the thrones. His clothes were white as snow, and his hair was like pure wool. His throne, mounted on fiery wheels, was blazing with fire, 10 and a stream of fire was pouring out from it. There were many thousands of people there to serve him, and millions of people stood before him. The court began its session, and the books were opened.

Daniel 4:13-24 Good News Translation (GNT)
13 “While I was thinking about the vision, I saw coming down from heaven an angel, alert and watchful. 14 He proclaimed in a loud voice, ‘Cut the tree down and chop off its branches; strip off its leaves and scatter its fruit. Drive the animals from under it and the birds out of its branches. 15 But leave the stump in the ground with a band of iron and bronze around it. Leave it there in the field with the grass.

“‘Now let the dew fall on this man, and let him live with the animals and the plants. 16 For seven years he will not have a human mind, but the mind of an animal. 17 This is the decision of the alert and watchful angels. So then, let all people everywhere know that the Supreme God has power over human kingdoms and that he can give them to anyone he chooses—even to those who are least important.’

18 “This is the dream I had,” said King Nebuchadnezzar. “Now, Belteshazzar, tell me what it means. None of my royal advisers could tell me, but you can, because the spirit of the holy gods is in you.”

19 At this, Daniel, who is also called Belteshazzar, was so alarmed that he could not say anything. The king said to him, “Belteshazzar, don't let the dream and its message alarm you.”

Belteshazzar replied, “Your Majesty, I wish that the dream and its explanation applied to your enemies and not to you. 20 The tree, so tall that it reached the sky, could be seen by everyone in the world. 21 Its leaves were beautiful, and it had enough fruit on it to feed the whole world. Wild animals rested under it, and birds made their nests in its branches.

22 “Your Majesty, you are the tree, tall and strong. You have grown so great that you reach the sky, and your power extends over the whole world. 23 While Your Majesty was watching, an angel came down from heaven and said, ‘Cut the tree down and destroy it, but leave the stump in the ground. Wrap a band of iron and bronze around it, and leave it there in the field with the grass. Let the dew fall on this man, and let him live there with the animals for seven years.’

24 “This, then, is what it means, Your Majesty, and this is what the Supreme God has declared will happen to you.

See also, Job 1

Angels had greater authority and responsibility at the time of their fall.

What does that have to do with them being iredeemable?

 

[bekkilyn]

Why do you think they wouldnt want to be restored to paradise?

Because they want to RULE paradise in place of God. That was the whole problem in the first place and why they rebelled.

 

[Sammy-San]

Because they want to RULE paradise in place of God. That was the whole problem in the first place and why they rebelled.

Why would all people be saveable then?

 

[ItIsFinished!]

Unlike humans , angels were in the presence of the glory of God and unfortunately a third of them rebelled against Him.
No one knows the number of the third.
Quite bewildering nonetheless.

 

[Sammy-San]

Unlike humans , angels were in the presence of the glory of God and unfortunately a third of them rebelled against Him.
No one knows the number of the third.
Quite bewildering nonetheless.

Adam and Eve didnt see God.