Why did God ceate such a cruel world?

[Rufas]

FYI: It is based on a false premise. There was an obvious flaw, that is 'inexperience'. A famous statement regarding wisdom: "those who do not learn from the mistakes of the past, are doomed to repeat them".

That was the problem in the first place!

It just seems to me, that you're stuck in this idea that God wanted the world to be this way.

It first of all, was not full of pain and suffering, according to the facts in the story. Secondary, when people refuse to obey what they are told, and then they discover the consequences of the disobedience, then they will be twice as willing to obey next time. The plan includes that "soon", all who are determined to disobey are removed whereas all who are inclined to obedience are kept, and in that way the world become full of people who live God's way and we also have experience why it is best to do so. That experience is what Adam and Eve did not have. Experience is always associated with wisdom.

Probably not eh, considering the human's determination to do whatever they choose to do. But sure, my imagination is not that powerful.

I don't know much about disease. What I know about disease is that the immune system should be able to cope with it. I've always thought that an immune system that can't cope with disease must be somewhat compromised - perhaps by lifestyle factors, or inherited genetic damage. What do you reckon about this? If you were to consider that Adam and Eve were given perfect immune systems, and they had eaten the perfectly organic diet, lived in a pure environment, they would naturally resist disease perfectly? Do you think that these conditions should have been passed along all generations without fault?.

It's a long way from having no idea though. Do you speak to animals?

What is a natural disaster?

Earthquakes, Storms, Droughts, Volcanoes, Floods, Asteroids, Fires.

In these examples, storms floods, droughts and fires are a category of extremes where human activity could mitigate their effects and with proper management of the planet, could be entirely eliminated; whereas earthquakes, volcanoes and asteroids are those which cannot be prevented, they can only be detected and avoided.

That is to say, that God has also created us to be capable of coping with natural disasters.

Now that I have come to address your question - why make the world like this? - then I can see it is all just elementary to life: earthquakes and volcanoes are a result of superheated rock moving beneath the earth's crust, which is abrasive and when finds a critical weakness, causes the crust to break. Heat is a result of the sun, and the pressure of gravity (I think - as a layman), both of which are necessary for life on this planet. Storms etc are all to do with heat again, and the distrbution of water throughout the globe. I think we should be grateful that He did design it this way, TBH.

This has of course avoided the discussion of nuclear meltdowns - would you like to address that too?

 

[Rufas]

God knows all things from beginning to the end. So he knew adam would fall and throw the world into chaos. I so appreciate Jesus's sacrifice on the cross but why did it have to be this way. He knew there would be much suffering from the beginning. Why didn't he do it in a way that caused less pain for Him and for us.

 

[St_Worm2]

I so appreciate Jesus's sacrifice on the cross but why did it have to be this way. He knew there would be much suffering from the beginning. Why didn't he do it in a way that caused less pain for Him and for us.

Hi Rufus, what we understand and what God understands from His perspective is often entirely different. In finally sending Jesus here as a man, God gave us His very best (all that He had to give, in fact .. cf Romans 8:32), and I don't believe our (& Jesus') Abba Father would have had Jesus go through what He did for us unless it was absolutely necessary.

One of the three nouns used to describe God in the Bible is "love". God is love! If He had His Son suffer for us w/o reason however, it seems to me that would make Him a monster, not a loving Father.

Yours and His,
David
p.s. - BTW, WELCOME TO CF

 

[Viren]

There's little suffering in nature. For example, the lion hunting a gazelle in Africa kills it very quickly. Also, diseased animals die quickly.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

How do Christians explain the cruelty that seems so common place in our world? I'm not only referring to that inflicted by humans, but also to that in nature.
Why are there diseases that cause such huge suffering?
Why is it necessary for animals to live by eating others, in some cases whilst still alive?
Why have natural disasters that cause death, pain and suffering?

That's all "normal" daily existence in the world.
Part of daily existence is most men attempt to make things worse for others every day. And to prevent anyone from finding out how "easy" it is to be saved from it while still living on earth. "Easy", when someone turns in faith to Yahweh to be healed, and to follow Jesus, to live HIS WAY. Oh, it is still a struggle for life, as the world hates Jesus and hates Jesus' followers.

 

[cvanwey]

How do Christians explain the cruelty that seems so common place in our world?
I'm not only referring to that inflicted by humans, but also to that in nature.

Why are there diseases that cause such huge suffering?
Why is it necessary for animals to live by eating others, in some cases whilst still alive?
Why have natural disasters that cause death, pain and suffering?

The more one learns, discovers, understands, the more it appears the world was not 'created' for humans. If a 'creator' created, this creator appears absent from it's continuing conclusion.

Many want to project meaning and purpose, as if everything happens for a reason.

The default answer, is that life has no purpose. This is the easiest and most logical way to answer your questions. Any assertion, besides the default of 'no purpose', harbors a rather large burden of proof.

Now get ready for a swoon of circular reasoning (i.e.) quoting man written Bible verses, conformation bias, special pleading, appeals to emotion, arguments from ignorance, anecdotal testimonials, red herrings, and the many other fallacies which are soon to follow....

 

[4x4toy]

How do Christians explain the cruelty that seems so common place in our world? I'm not only referring to that inflicted by humans, but also to that in nature.

Why are there diseases that cause such huge suffering?
Why is it necessary for animals to live by eating others, in some cases whilst still alive?
Why have natural disasters that cause death, pain and suffering?

What would make you happy ? And for how long ?

 

[Hawkins]

How do Christians explain the cruelty that seems so common place in our world? I'm not only referring to that inflicted by humans, but also to that in nature.

Why are there diseases that cause such huge suffering?
Why is it necessary for animals to live by eating others, in some cases whilst still alive?
Why have natural disasters that cause death, pain and suffering?

Natural disasters tell that this place is not inside God's dwelling realm, ever since Adam was driven out of Eden. Wherever outside God's realm doesn't have the active maintenance from God. Other sufferings are created by humans.

 

[DeepWater]

How do Christians explain the cruelty that seems so common place in our world? I'm not only referring to that inflicted by humans, but also to that in nature.

Why are there diseases that cause such huge suffering?
Why is it necessary for animals to live by eating others, in some cases whilst still alive?
Why have natural disasters that cause death, pain and suffering?

-
God didnt create the "world" as you are thinking about it.
He created it without what you are describing as its current "fallen" state.
But once Adam sinned, then a curse within the spiritual realm entered this place, and this affected not only the nature of man, but nature in general.

And its always a fallacy, to blame God for what Men do, = because that is how they CHOOSE to use their free will.....to harm, to hurt, to use, to deceive, and worse.

Evil exist because there is a literal devil that is the "god of this world", and his nature, is the nature of every single person who has not had their nature changed. (Born Again).
Satan, is literally the "father" of every unsaved human being.
This is why Jesus said.....>"You are of YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL, and the LUSTS OF YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL......YOU.....WILL........Do".

So, when you see evil on this earth.... mass murder, rape,, child porn, sex slavery, ETC ETC ETC , its men doing the "lusts" of the devil, playing out within human beings, on this earth, every single time you see it or hear about it.
So, dont blame God.....Blame the one that WHO IS the FATHER of the evil that you see played out in real life, in real time, by HIS Children, on this earth.

 

[W2L]

No matter the bad things that happen in this life, our only hope is in the Lord who gives eternal life. This world is temporary but God has given us eternity. We can rejoice in that.

 

[drich0150]

How do Christians explain the cruelty that seems so common place in our world? I'm not only referring to that inflicted by humans, but also to that in nature.

Why are there diseases that cause such huge suffering?
Why is it necessary for animals to live by eating others, in some cases whilst still alive?
Why have natural disasters that cause death, pain and suffering?

God did in fact create this world, but he handed it over to us in turn we handed it over to Satan. See the book of Job and the temptations of Christ (Satan offered to give the world back over to Jesus if He would kneel to him.) This would not be a temptation if Satan did not own what He offered.. also look at Job when God asks what He has been up to Satan was wandering this world looking going place to place (as if owned the world/no one had that freedom back then)

We often thing Satan's domain is Hell, when in fact Hell is Satan's punishment.. he is not the king of Hell you are thinking greek or roman myth. In Christianity Satan rules this world and is captured bound by chain and thrown into Hell for punishment where he is tormented forever.

So then now frame your question in the light that Satan runs this world... Look at what Satan did when God said have you cnsidered my servant Job... How did Satan try and get Job to curse God? out of all the things Satan had at His disposal his first move is to destroy job's life.. Satan did not have to do this! Job could have temped or bought bribed or even suduced, but that is not how satan works.. Satan destroys. Satan is the storm of life.

Now your questions:
Why are there diseases that cause such huge suffering?
Why is it necessary for animals to live by eating others, in some cases whilst still alive?
Why have natural disasters that cause death, pain and suffering?

Are you familiar with the parable of the wise and foolish builder?

The foolish man builds his house on the sand, wise man build house on the rock when the storm comes the wise man house stands while foolish man house collapses.

What is out house? out house in this story is our faith our understandings our christian works and beliefs. everything we know about God and all we do for Him. Now case in point we can have two different men live identical lives go to the same church serve in the exact same way do all the same thing live a long and productive life and in the end one man can go to heaven and the other would hear away from me evil servant I never knew you... why? (in fact jesus said there will be many like that on this day) because of what we have and hold in our heart. one man could be serving God with all that he was and all the love that he had and it could amount to what another man did without any thought or care outside of going through the motions.

So to protect us or to protect honest people/people who are honest with themselves God sends the storms of life. meaning satan As per job, God allows satan in to your life to unseat anything not of God. meaning anything not of God or any wrong theological beliefs, any miss placed faith, or any understanding of God that is not based in truth will be swept away through these trials by these storms meaning if you do not build your house/faith on God's truth (not religious truth or the truth this church says over that church but God's bilical truth, when you build you faith on God's truth/the rock these storm come and you don't loose anything.

If your faith is built in truth these storms only bring you closer to God. if how ever your faith is built on the sand when you cry out to God you will discover your version of God is not to be found. Understand the God of the bible is alive and as active as he was in the time of Christ. if He is not your verion of God might be more sand than you may want him to be.

And Satan/Trials of life will prove that to you. It s not a go to church more thing. it is an open your bible (NT unless your an OT jew or want to be) and read to find out who he is and what he has promised to do for you and how you can tap those promises.

God is not a genie looking to trade good deeds for wishes.

 

[Goonie]

Explaining why the world is not perfect has always been the challenge of any religion. Christianity uses original sin to explain it, the Ancient Greeks/Romans use their pantheon of imperfect deities arguing with each other and humanity to explain it, and us atheists just shrug.

 

[drich0150]

Explaining why the world is not perfect has always been the challenge of any religion. Christianity uses original sin to explain it, the Ancient Greeks/Romans use their pantheon of imperfect deities arguing with each other and humanity to explain it, and us atheists just shrug.

meh.. pain and original sin doesn't jive well with what the bible actually says. Meaning there is no one parable nor one place where someone like jesus and or paul points to original sin as the reason you suffer. one had to cut and paste several different verses together (stuff ment to deal with other problems are cherry picked to support the original sin excuse.

When in fact the bile does indeed give a complete one single source explanation in several different time, in fact the most anyone who had to speak about this was Jesus. And Jesus never once utter anything about original sin.

The primary parable is the one I used about the wise and foolish builders. in the God uses pain to knock down a house you foolishly build on sand/not truth. It seems mean but again Jesus says God send the storms to test what you have built and the foolish man who built his house on the sand would see it collapsed.. that is a very big loss. most of us now days when we loose what we spent the first 1/2 of our lives building give up and say there can't be a God. When in fact the purpose of this parable is to show you your version of God is so off, so bad God is not even willing to meet you 1/2 way.

Why? because what if in your mind God is to be treated as a wish granting genie that trades wishes for good deeds? Clearly scripturally this is not the God of the bible, but lets say for you this is how God works in your mind. now what happens when God sends the wind and rain to wipe this person's slate clean.. but durning the wind and rain this person is holding on to the last scrap of their faith and they are doing every good thing they can think of so they can trade this work to be 'made right again.' So what if the God of the bible meets them 1/2 way.. they attribute their salvation from the wind and rain to this broken god of theirs.. Or.. God can allow what was said in the arable to take place and wipe the house/faith clean. meaning prove to the person with the bad foundation their god does not exist.

However since we teach original sin rather than wind and rain as Jesus taught, when ever a person is made to endure the wind and rain they over conclude that there can be no god at all, not that they personally are the foolish man who builds his house on the sand. and that by wiping out your old faith gives you the opportunity to build a new faith on the truth of God's word.

So yes we do live in a world over seen by satan but as in the book of Job he is on a bit of a leash. Scripture shows us God allows satan to 'consider us' inorder to temper and strengthen our resolve or be used in such a way as to be a tool to help others.

 

[Uber Genius]

Atheist professional philosophers stopped arguing the logical problem of evil and suffering almost 40 years ago. This video explains why:

 

[Paradise_Falls]

How do Christians explain the cruelty that seems so common place in our world? I'm not only referring to that inflicted by humans, but also to that in nature.

Why are there diseases that cause such huge suffering?
Why is it necessary for animals to live by eating others, in some cases whilst still alive?
Why have natural disasters that cause death, pain and suffering?

This is not the heavenly realm that we live upon nor is man any longer shielded within the garden. This is why these things happen to man.

 

[dhh712]

How do Christians explain the cruelty that seems so common place in our world? I'm not only referring to that inflicted by humans, but also to that in nature.

Why are there diseases that cause such huge suffering?
Why is it necessary for animals to live by eating others, in some cases whilst still alive?
Why have natural disasters that cause death, pain and suffering?

Because God cursed the world when Adam sinned in the garden. That's why the world is so horrible and it too groans for the return of Christ when there will be none of the awful stuff that is in it.

 

[Tom 1]

Surely an all powerful God would not have created creatures who were unable to obey a simple order?

With the disobedience of man the initial peaceful order broke down. We are living with the natural consequences of that, not a punishment per se but rather the inevitable result of man’s choice to violate the boundary between himself and God. It’s how things work - the consequences of our own sins reverberate in the lives of others, as do our acts of love and kindness. All human actions have consequences - God created us to be free in some sense we can no longer understand. Now, in our self awareness, he expects us to take responsibility for how we act but makes up for our shortcomings with grace.

 

[Uber Genius]

God knows all things from beginning to the end. So he knew adam would fall and throw the world into chaos. I so appreciate Jesus's sacrifice on the cross but why did it have to be this way. He knew there would be much suffering from the beginning. Why didn't he do it in a way that caused less pain for Him and for us.

So you have asked the right question.

What is the answer? You have properly intuited that God chose a world infused with evil and suffering. Further, he chose that Jesus would suffer as a method of atonement. And more ridiculous is that from Colossians we know that it was Jesus who created this world and then chose to suffer.

The disciples asked what their respective positions of authority would be in heaven. Jesus replied it was not his to determine but he did promise, "You will drink of the same cup that I do."

Probably while look at someone hung on a cross. The disciples receive a promise that they will suffer as Christ suffered.

Jesus has chosen a world where he suffers and his followers suffer.

So suffering is not an accidental feature of the world as some suggest. God intended suffering.

That said, free will is the culprit. It seems that it is not possible to create a world without this much evil and suffering and also this much good. Free people sooner or later rebel in every possible world given the nature of humans.

This is not going to be the case due to new natures and new bodies in heaven.

He could have started with heaven. We must engage the fact that there is some value to going through suffering in a human existence prior to a sufferless life in a heavenly existence.