Why did God allow Genghis Khan?

[mindlight]

God certainly uses the wicked to benefit the elect, although it is not always readily apparent at the time. By opening Europe up to Asia, which at the time was scientifically more advanced, God set in motion the reformation which was to come several hundred years later.

True and following the travel accounts of Marco Polo the Venetian and Genoan traders made a lot of money from the trade routes that opened up. Unfortunately they also spread black death when it came down the silk road in Asia. Such accounts and trade became a major inspiration for the age of discovery and allowed Christianity to go global and not just in the weak and diluted Nestorian forms that had already permeated across Asia.

 

[Redwingfan9]

True and following the travel accounts of Marco Polo the Venetian and Genoan traders made a lot of money from the trade routes that opened up. Unfortunately they also spread black death when it came down the silk road in Asia. Such accounts and trade became a major inspiration for the age of discovery and allowed Christianity to go global and not just in the weak and diluted Nestorian forms that had already permeated across Asia.

Agreed. There is so much going on in history, we cab see God's hand throughout. Events happen which are seemingly bad but they end up being used for the benefit of the elect.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

If I were to give a divine reason for God's allowing it to happen, perhaps the Mongols were allowed to flourish (for a brief time) to counteract the forces of Islam and give Christians somewhat a relief from the attacks of Muslims. Yet the Mongols did have an effect on Christian Kingdoms, notably eastern ones like Kievan Rus, Georgia, Hungary and Poland. I personally am not sure why God allowed those countries to be invaded.

The Mongol remnant state of the Golden Horde dominated the Russian princes and gave them an enemy to eventually unite against and defeat. That Russian State would eventually conquer the Gold Horde and displace it. Kievan Rus' collapse allowed the Lithuanians to capture much of territory and when it was united to Poland in a union it became a powerful Kingdom in Europe.

 

[martymonster]

In the context of the Asia of the time who was the righteous man, comparable to Job, who was being tested? There are some long term strategic benefits to the Mongol expansion. There is also a considerable amount of judgment on Muslims and pagans especially. But if this was about testing the church how come most of them in Asia remained heretic Nestorians after this testing and were then wiped out by Tamerlane in the next century.

Wow, nice human reasoning. You'll do anything to get around the truth of scripture, eh?

 

[com7fy8]

after the Mongol empire broke up there was a catastrophic persecution of Christians by Muslims

So, the empire of Genghis did not hold up, but Christianity kept on going. Then the Muslim persecution did not hold up, but Christianity continued. Also, Christian conquerors have done what they have done, but Christianity has continued.

"we are more than conquerors" (in Romans 8:37)

We always have been able to do more than conquerors do. Possibly, their silliness is an object lesson of what does not work and last.

I consider how God used Joseph's horrible situation to help so many people . . . to stay alive > Genesis 37-50.

 

[The Liturgist]

If I were to give a divine reason for God's allowing it to happen, perhaps the Mongols were allowed to flourish (for a brief time) to counteract the forces of Islam and give Christians somewhat a relief from the attacks of Muslims. Yet the Mongols did have an effect on Christian Kingdoms, notably eastern ones like Kievan Rus, Georgia, Hungary and Poland. I personally am not sure why God allowed those countries to be invaded.

The Mongol remnant state of the Golden Horde dominated the Russian princes and gave them an enemy to eventually unite against and defeat. That Russian State would eventually conquer the Gold Horde and displace it. Kievan Rus' collapse allowed the Lithuanians to capture much of territory and when it was united to Poland in a union it became a powerful Kingdom in Europe.

Which in turn led to the unfortunate Union of Brest which forcibly unified the Ruthenians, the Lemkos and Carpatho-Rusysn Orthodox with the Roman church and led to a period of liturgical Romanization.

 

[James A]

I think it is very important to know the difference between physical evil and moral evil. God uses physical evil (e.g. flood at Noah's time) Himself. Suffering from physical evil does not make us unworthy to inherit the Kingdom of God. In fact, many believers experience God closely during the time of suffering.

It is the moral evil (sin) which God cannot be part of in any degree by definition - sin is defined as the privation of good while God is all good.

It is also important to note that physical evil is a "thing" while sin is a state - state of corrupted good.

 

[The Liturgist]

I think it is very important to know the difference between physical evil and moral evil. God uses physical evil (e.g. flood at Noah's time) Himself. Suffering from physical evil does not make us unworthy to inherit the Kingdom of God. In fact, many believers experience God closely during the time of suffering.

It is the moral evil (sin) which God cannot be part of in any degree by definition - sin is defined as the privation of good while God is all good.

It is also important to note that physical evil is a "thing" while sin is a state - state of corrupted good.

I am not entirely sure I could call the Flood or other natural “disasters” physical evil; rather they seem to me to be an integral aspect of God’s creation, which is perfect and beautiful. There are natural things which can through dangers they pose cause loss of life or injury, but this is not evil, but rather a function of the created world.

Evil is rather, from what I have read of the Fathers, a rejection of God. Evil is not created, nor is it uncreated; it is rather destructive and uncreatable. The devil in rejecting God, Adam and Eve in succumbing to temptation, and we in all of our myriad perversions engage in destructive and self-destructive acts, and these are evil, whereas God is infinitely good and loving.

 

[James A]

I am not entirely sure I could call the Flood or other natural “disasters” physical evil; rather they seem to me to be an integral aspect of God’s creation, which is perfect and beautiful. There are natural things which can through dangers they pose cause loss of life or injury, but this is not evil, but rather a function of the created world.

Evil is rather, from what I have read of the Fathers, a rejection of God. Evil is not created, nor is it uncreated; it is rather destructive and uncreatable. The devil in rejecting God, Adam and Eve in succumbing to temptation, and we in all of our myriad perversions engage in destructive and self-destructive acts, and these are evil, whereas God is infinitely good and loving.

In my opinion, sin is created. It is the free will of humans ( and angels) which led to the rejection of good and thus, sin. The moral evil or sin is a state not a thing.

 

[Contenders Edge]

Assuming God is Sovereign and Almighty the greatest conqueror in history was not just an accident.

So why did God allow Genghis Khan?

Some reasons I have been considering:

1) To establish freedom of religion in much of Eurasia
2) cause of his meritocratic approach to governance
3) To open up silk road from East so that Christendom could become aware of larger world than European Christendom, but also so that judgments like Black Death could pass down it
4) as a rebuke to Chinese racial supremacy attitudes in Song Dynasty
5) As a direct judgment on eurasian pagan tribes that were massacred by Mongols and to clear way for later Christian Russian expansion
6) As a threat reduction to Christendom by massacres of Muslims and force reductions in Muslim world following failure of crusades and diminishment of Byzantine empire

Any ideas?

If this is all so, then it just goes to show that God can use even seemingly ruthless and wicked people to bring about a good that exceeds their evil.

 

[fhansen]

Assuming God is Sovereign and Almighty the greatest conqueror in history was not just an accident.

So why did God allow Genghis Khan?

Some reasons I have been considering:

1) To establish freedom of religion in much of Eurasia
2) cause of his meritocratic approach to governance
3) To open up silk road from East so that Christendom could become aware of larger world than European Christendom, but also so that judgments like Black Death could pass down it
4) as a rebuke to Chinese racial supremacy attitudes in Song Dynasty
5) As a direct judgment on eurasian pagan tribes that were massacred by Mongols and to clear way for later Christian Russian expansion
6) As a threat reduction to Christendom by massacres of Muslims and force reductions in Muslim world following failure of crusades and diminishment of Byzantine empire

Any ideas?

“Allow” is the key word. God doesn’t necessarily use people and their choices, whether rogues or saints, but He does in any case allow a complete and radical freedom here on earth to do whatever we’re physically capable of doing, and willing to do. Either way He can still bring an greater good out of the evil that man intends.

 

[fhansen]

That leaves you open to the view that God Himself actively perpetrated various acts of evil by the Mongols. Allowed works better with scripture.

Exactly. And if that we’re true then God would be less trustworthy than Satan, and we could have no guarantee or reason to believe that heaven should necessarily be any better than hell-if God directly creates/causes every evil/sin, no matter how atrocious. And how, in that case, could man ever be held accountable if God directly willed and caused all evil?