Why continue making excuses for god?

[rocklife]

You should send money because of your compassion to help humanity and starving children, not because you are trying to glorify or make yourself look better in the eyes of the Lord.


edit---Has anybody looked into Humanism at all?

just friendly reminder, this forum is not a Discussion forum, there is one of those on the main page lower down. Encouraging us to look at humanism doesn't seem appropriate either. Please no need to reply.

 

[Key]

Rather than to continue to respond ad infinitum to your posts, I'll just say the following:

Itjust comes down to that your god can do no wrong. You'll always find a way to justify his behavior and the awful things that exist in this world. You can't explain how a loving god would kill an innocent child, but very time you come up with a way to make god look good (or the devil look bad) and it's all justified.

I could never see myself living this way where whenever I'm faced with an issue about "why did god kill my mom or that little sweet girl with cancer" that I have to justify it somehow.

God takes credit for all that is good and the devil (or evil human beings) take the credit for all taht is bad. Interesting. Next time I buy something that is defective, I'll just blame it on the devil for influencing me to buy it, or better yet, blame myself for being too corrupted with sin to buy the right product.

I could justify all night long that I am in fact god, and that it's I that am responsible for all the good in this world, and that it is my sister who controls all the evil. I could just say I'm too lazy to cure the sick and feed the hungry, but I could if I wanted to. Could you prove otherwise, no. And I realize that I can't prove that your god doesn't exist either. So why would you believe one over the other?

Seriously, if you're feeling froggy, give it a try and prove that I'm not god.

Anything is possible when you believe in magic.

Umm.. are you serious with this.. or is just a spite post..?

God Bless

Key

 

[Zocrates]

Uhmmmm no that's not what it means. Actually, not even close.

Then what do christians mean by "god will answer everyone's prayers in his own time"? If you prayer isn't immediately answered, don't you just chalk it up to god answering your prayer in his own way and time? I'm simply doing the same thing. You've prayed and asked me a question and I will answer yoru question when I see fit....just as god will cure cancer when he sees fit.

Really? I never stopped praying (prove I didn't) But thanks for playing! (really it's been fun)
tulc(care for some coffee?)

Billions of people pray and have faith each day and don't have their prayers answered. Just because you've prayed doesn't mean you can't pray harder and have more faith. I don't believe your faith is me is strong enough, which is why I will not answer your question.

If you have any other questions to prove that I am not god, please don't hesitate to ask.

 

[tulc]

I don't believe your faith is me is strong enough, which is why I will not answer your question.

Uhmmm if you were God wouldn't you KNOW what my faith was not BELIEVE?
tulc( )

 

[Zocrates]

You must first show that God is responsible for the awful things that exist in the world.

God supposedly created us and this world. Don't you think is he's responsible for this glorious creation, that he's also responsible for everything that goes wrong with it as well?

In proving that god is responsible for the good, you're also proving that he is responsible for the bad. You can't have one without the other. If humans are solely responsible for the bad things that go on, then we can also be responsible for good as well (that has nothing to do with god).

When did God ever kill "an innocent child"?

If you need me to start giving out verses, then I guess I can, but surely if you have read the bible, you'll find countless instances where he commanded the slaughter of first borns, not to mention the flood that killed small children as well.

There's nothing at all in scripture to indicate that God "kills with cancer".

Cancer is caused by the body's inability to regulate the production of white blood cells, not God.

I'm glad you realize this. You've found a real explanation for something that goes on in our world. 2,000 years ago, people had no idea what the cause of cancer was, so they probbaly just chalked it up to evil spirits. Now, through studying our surroundings (science), we know a little more about cancer. If we could only continue to do that with everything else.

Not really. If you read the Bible, you'll see that the Devil is a relatively minor player who doesn't really get "credit" for much of anything.

Well then, let's drop this devil character all together and stop blaming him for the evil that goes on. Sound good? Maybe we should own up to the evil as something we caused ourselves and at the same time own up to the good that goes on as something we created also.

Sure. I can look at your birth certificate and see that you were born and, before too long, you're going to die.

Whoa now, my birth certificate means nothing. This is just the current life form I am using. When this life form dies, I will inhabit another human body.

Because there is evidence that Jesus is God. There is no evidence that you're God, only evidence that you're not God.

There is no evidence for either. There's no evidence for jesus as god, nor I. There only exists the inability to disprove either is not god. You cannot disprove that I am god and you cannot disprove that jesus is god.

Anything is possible when you believe in magic. I can magically take the form of a human if magic is possible, just as god was able to magically send jesus to hell and back again. Great huh?

No. You're the one who made the claim that you can justify that you are god. Therefore, it is up to you to justify that you are god, not up to us to show that you're not.

And you have made a claim that jesus is god as well, but you have not justified your claim. Any proof you provide that jesus is god, I can then provide the same proof that I am god as well.

 

[dvd_holc]

319 years of age, why do you ask?

I'm assuming, though, that you're addressing my infantile post. I'll admit it isn't the best argument, but for the sake of my point, I believe it serves a purpose.

If you believe that god can explain all things, then I challenged you to prove that I, Zocrates, cannot do all things as well as, or even better than god himself.

I ask because it is an answer to the question...you are a created being...you did not exist at one point and then you did...hence somebeing (or beings) created you...

Also, you have 24 on your list age and now you say 319...your are lair for the sake of arguement...

Further, you can babel about all things but it does not mean you can explain all things.

 

[Zocrates]

Umm.. are you serious with this.. or is just a spite post..?

God Bless

Key

I'm not one of those guys that wastes time with "spite posts", so yes, I'm very serious.

 

[Zocrates]

Uhmmm if you were God wouldn't you KNOW what my faith was not BELIEVE?
tulc( )

Semantic games to try and skirt around answering my post....i see


Well, I was simply trying to relate to you in a way you could understand, just as your god does.

I will adjust and say that I know your faith isn't strong enough, which is why I choose not to answer yoru questions or prayers at the moment.

 

[WarEagle]

God supposedly created us and this world. Don't you think is he's responsible for this glorious creation, that he's also responsible for everything that goes wrong with it as well?

Not when that creation has free will.

If you need me to start giving out verses, then I guess I can

Since you're the one making the claim about Christian teaching, it is up to you to demonstrate from Christian teachings that your claims are true.

surely if you have read the bible, you'll find countless instances where he commanded the slaughter of first borns, not to mention the flood that killed small children as well.

Can you show us when God ever killed innocent children or can you not?

I'm glad you realize this. You've found a real explanation for something that goes on in our world. 2,000 years ago, people had no idea what the cause of cancer was, so they probbaly just chalked it up to evil spirits.

There is a real misconception that people in Bible times were nothing but ignorant, superstitious cavemen.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

When Jesus was killed, Luke made statements about His death due to damage to His cardial sac that would not have been commonly known to science in that day.

Likewise, up until about 1900, science believed that there were only a few thousand stars in the sky, but the Bible tells us that they are countless in their numbers.

When the commonly accepted science of the day told us that the Earth was flat, the Bible told us that it was spherical.

And the list goes on. Sterilization, hydrological cycles, air currents, etc.

So you need to be very careful in describing them this way.

Well then, let's drop this devil character all together and stop blaming him for the evil that goes on.

The only person blaming him for the evil that goes on is you.

Whoa now, my birth certificate means nothing. This is just the current life form I am using. When this life form dies, I will inhabit another human body.

So you say. You still haven't given any evidence to back up your claim.

There is no evidence for either. There's no evidence for jesus as god

Actually, there's a tremendous amount of evidence for Jesus, both as an historical figure, and to the truthfulness of His claims to be God.

Anything is possible when you believe in magic...just as god was able to magically send jesus to hell and back again. Great huh?

And this only shows that you don't know what the Bible says.

How can you dismiss the Bible when you don't even know what it says?

 

[Zocrates]

I ask because it is an answer to the question...you are a created being...you did not exist at one point and then you did...hence somebeing (or beings) created you...

This is my current form so that I can relate to my creation better. When this form dies, I will take the form of another being.

Further, you can babel about all things but it does not mean you can explain all things.

Is this not what your god does as well: "Babel about all things"? There are no real answers to how the world came, just that a god created it in 6 days. I could give you better answers to any questions you have. Try me.

I can explain all things better than your god. If I wrote a book today claiming to be inspired by my word explaining the things that were explained in the bible, I'd bet 10,000 years from now that my book would be more credible than the bible.

 

[Zocrates]

Not when that creation has free will.

Free will to do good as well then. Why can we not take credit for all the good if we take all the credit for the bad?

Can you show us when God ever killed innocent children or can you not?

I believe tulc already provided one instance where the innocent child of david and bathsheba was killed because of david's adultery. Also, do you think god didn't kill small babies in the flood?

When Jesus was killed, Luke made statements about His death due to damage to His cardial sac that would not have been commonly known to science in that day.

You've asked me to provide evidence for my claims, so I will ask your for the same as well.

Likewise, up until about 1900, science believed that there were only a few thousand stars in the sky, but the Bible tells us that they are countless in their numbers.

The bible also talks about stars falling to earth too. Do you know what it would be like for a star to "fall on the earth"? Kinda tells me that they believed stars were tiny little specks the size of pebbles.

When the commonly accepted science of the day told us that the Earth was flat, the Bible told us that it was spherical.

I've had christians tell me this in the past and every time they fail at showing me the evidence for this. There is no evidence in the bible for the earth being spherical.

The only person blaming him for the evil that goes on is you.

And about a couple hundred thousand other christians...at least. Keep in mind that these christians feel like they are true christians and that it is you that has the wrong idea.

Actually, there's a tremendous amount of evidence for Jesus, both as an historical figure, and to the truthfulness of His claims to be God.

And like I said, any evidence for jesus being real and being god can be used to prove that I am god as well.

And this only shows that you don't know what the Bible says.

I know full well what the bible says. A book is not evidence that jesus is god. There are older books with older gods, but you don't believe they are god either...why not? Just because an old book says someone is god, isn't evidence. Please give more evidence than just what the bible says. And then I'll turn around and use that same evidence to prove that I am god as well.

How can you dismiss the Bible when you don't even know what it says?

I've read the bible, and it's full of magic.

 

[tulc]

I will adjust and say that I know your faith isn't strong enough, which is why I choose not to answer yoru questions or prayers at the moment.

So God didn't see that coming? I don't know man, It's looking less and less likely.
tulc(does God drink coffee?)

 

[tulc]

Well, I was simply trying to relate to you in a way you could understand, just as your god does.

Sooo you're not my God? Can you name anyone who does think you're God so I can talk to them?
tulc(they might be able to explain)

 

[WarEagle]

This forum is for non-Christians to ask questions of Christians about our religion, not for non-Christians to attack our religion and debate.

 

[tulc]

A child dying as a consequence of sin is not the same as God killing them.

...it wasn't the childs sin though, it was Davids sin, the child was innocent.

Please show where in scripture we're told that God kills innocent babies.

uhmmm aren't they ALL innocent?
tulc(just a thought)

 

[Zocrates]

So God didn't see that coming? I don't know man, It's looking less and less likely.
tulc(does God drink coffee?)

You mean the same way your god didn't see the flood coming? Why did he create humans the way he did if he knew he was going to have to destroy them all later on?

 

[Zocrates]

Sooo you're not my God? Can you name anyone who does think you're God so I can talk to them?
tulc(they might be able to explain)

What does that have to do with me being the real and true god? If everyone believes in the wrong thing, does that automatically make it the correct and true thing? No.

 

[tulc]

What does that have to do with me being the real and true god? If everyone believes in the wrong thing, does that automatically make it the correct and true thing? No.

See the God I worship had prophets and they testified of Him, Where's your prophets? It would be easier talking to a man then a God.
tulc(just a suggestion)

 

[tulc]

You mean the same way your god didn't see the flood coming? Why did he create humans the way he did if he knew he was going to have to destroy them all later on?

My God? I thught you were God? Be that as it may, I think you've mistaken me for one of Gods defenders, that's not my job. I don't believe God is caught by suprise by anything. Sorry that's another strike.
tulc(thinks God's big enough to defend Himself)

 

[Zocrates]

Because we're not good.

Wow. You've just reminded me yet again why I'm not christian. It's all based on this "truth" that we're all sinful and we're only capable of evil and not good. Excellent outlook on life you have there.

I have a little more confidence in myself that I know I do good for myself and others. Especially if someone is going to tell me I'm responsible for the bad I do, I'm darn sure going to take credit for the good.

A child dying as a consequence of sin is not the same as God killing them.

Oh I see. If a baby dies as a result of me poisoning it for the transgressions of its father, I'm not to be held liable for its death. I think I understand now.

Please show where in scripture we're told that God kills innocent babies.

I already gave you plenty. David and Bathsheba. The flood. God commanding others to kill first born children. You don't need bible verses for this to be valid because you know good and well what verses they are and that innocent children die.

Now you're changing your story. First, you said innocent. Now you're saying "small"? You do know that being small and being innocent are two different things, don't you?

So you're justifying god's slughter because you're saying the children weren't innocent? A small child that hasn't has a chance at doing the right thing isn't innocent just because of his parents' sins? That's a horrible thing to think that a baby can be guilty when they haven't had a chance to live their lives yet.

Yet another outlandish claim all in the hopes of protecting your god's actions.

Like I said, when I start a thread to deal with those things, I'll be happy to.

I have never made a claim to disprove your god because I realize how futile and impossible it is. The reason I brought up calling myself god is to show you how futile and impossible it is to disprove that I'm god. When you bring magic into the picture, there's no possible way to disprove a god.

The only reference I can find is Daniel 8:10 and Revelation 12:4, both of which are metaphorical.

I see, so in revelations 22:18 when god says not to add to or take away from his words, that's just a metaphor as well. Why not take everything in the bible as a metaphor then? Why is it the information that doesn't make sense to you is automatically a metaphor?

Isaiah 40:22. Notice that the word commonly translated here as "circle" is chuwg, which is a Hebrew word for sphere.

Then why read the bible at all when half the words can be mistranslated? You could be reading that god wants you to worship him, when hea realy means something totally different. You can't cherry pick and change the bible's meaning as you see fit.

I didn't say they weren't true Christians. They are wrong, however.

Exactly, and you are correct above all these several hundred thousand christians that believe that the devil has something to do withthe evil here on earth. Must be a hekc of a feeling to look down on everyone that everyone else on the earth is wrong and you alone are correct. Because no two christians will ever be on the same page about the meaning of the bible and what it means to be a christian.

I, myself, realize that there might actually be a god out there. I don't think it's very likely, but I don't claim to know the absolute truth as you claim to know.

You're right. Simply saying that someone is God doesn'r make them God. However, demonstrating that they're God does show that they're God.

Your god has not demonstrated to me that he is god and exists, so how am I to know this somehow obvious evidence of him? And if this obvious evidence means praying and having enough faith, we've already been there. I can just say that the reason you don't see me as god is because you don't pray enough or have enough faith in me. Same thing.

Why? How are we to determine that the Bible is true without examining the Bible.

You shoudl examine the bible as you would with the same eyes you would the Koran or any other ancient book. Instead, you see something askew in the bible and you chalk it up to a "metaphor" or that "the babies weren't innocent".

Just repeating "Oh yeah, that happened to me, too" isn't evidence.

That's all other people do that claim to see miracles from god. You have to be consistent.

You claimed that you could "justify all night" that you're God.

So far, you've given no evidence at all.

You're not God. You're just another foolish troll.

If you treated me like your god, I would prove to you that I am as powerful and real as the christian god.

And yet, you can't give an example. The only magic in the Bible is on the part of God's enemies.

Walking on water isn't magic? Stopping the sun (which suggests that the sun revolves around the earth by the way) so battles can be fought isn't magic? Creating the entire universe like a lego set isn't magic?

The Bible says that we're not to argue with fools, so I'll bow out now.[/quote]

The bible also says to give all of your posessions to the poor if you hope to enter the kingdom of heaven, but have you done that as well?