Why continue making excuses for god?

[Zocrates]

See the God I worship had prophets and they testified of Him, Where's your prophets? It would be easier talking to a man then a God.
tulc(just a suggestion)

thinkfreelivefree is my prophet. PM him if you need confirmation.

 

[Zocrates]

My God? I thught you were God? Be that as it may, I think you've mistaken me for one of Gods defenders, that's not my job. I don't believe God is caught by suprise by anything. Sorry that's another strike.
tulc(thinks God's big enough to defend Himself)

I'm not caught by surprise any more than the christian god. He supposedly created humans and then wiped the slate clean once and killed his only son just to try and "straighten us out"....couldn't he have seen that coming?

 

[Key]

Rather than to continue to respond ad infinitum to your posts, I'll just say the following:

Itjust comes down to that your god can do no wrong. You'll always find a way to justify his behavior and the awful things that exist in this world. You can't explain how a loving god would kill an innocent child, but very time you come up with a way to make god look good (or the devil look bad) and it's all justified.

I could never see myself living this way where whenever I'm faced with an issue about "why did god kill my mom or that little sweet girl with cancer" that I have to justify it somehow.

God takes credit for all that is good and the devil (or evil human beings) take the credit for all taht is bad. Interesting. Next time I buy something that is defective, I'll just blame it on the devil for influencing me to buy it, or better yet, blame myself for being too corrupted with sin to buy the right product.

I could justify all night long that I am in fact god, and that it's I that am responsible for all the good in this world, and that it is my sister who controls all the evil. I could just say I'm too lazy to cure the sick and feed the hungry, but I could if I wanted to. Could you prove otherwise, no. And I realize that I can't prove that your god doesn't exist either. So why would you believe one over the other?

Seriously, if you're feeling froggy, give it a try and prove that I'm not god.

Anything is possible when you believe in magic.

I'm not one of those guys that wastes time with "spite posts", so yes, I'm very serious.

Ok.. well your not God.. nor are you any form of Divine Being.. as in all your posts, I have seen nothing of what I require for you to be God, which is Divinity and Timelessness.

Now, you may be able to pull off some level of Timelessness, as that is still within the realm of human ability, but you still have not provided this.

As such, I have no recourse but to remove you from either being a god, or even a prophet of a god, as I have I removed every other scripture and modern day self proclaimed prophet from my list for the very same reasons.

I hope this helps with your discussion.

God Bless

Key

 

[Zocrates]

Ok.. well your not God.. nor are you any form of Divine Being.. as in all your posts, I have seen nothing of what I require for you to be God, which is Divinity and Timelessness.

Now, you may be able to pull off some level of Timelessness, as that is still within the realm of human ability, but you still have not provided this.

As such, I have no recourse but to remove you from either being a god, or even a prophet of a god, as I have I removed every other scripture and modern day self proclaimed prophet from my list for the very same reasons.

I hope this helps with your discussion.

God Bless

Key

How have you established that I am not divine?

 

[Key]

How have you established that I am not divine?

Because you have not provided what I require, I explained this above, you have no provided in any way to me, any level of Timelessness, or Divinity.

Now, if you were God, at this point, or shall I say, the post I am now currently responding to, you would have known better, and been able to validate your claim, which you have only validated that your claim is false, but, such is the way of things, when mortals think that they can play a mind game and try to say they are a god or gods.

Now as Such the two things that I required, and I have gaged and measured you against, you have been found wanting.

As such, again, I am left with no recourse but to write you off as "another crack pot that thinks they are god" assuming there was any conviction your stand, which there is not, but, if there was, I would write you off as a crack pot, as the case is, I have to say, your attempt to make your point has failed horribly when it has been applied to me.

But Gold stars for your attempts with the others on this forum, and trying to support your stand.

I hope I have provided you an answer to your question, and given you some things to think about.

However, a nicer question would have been, "Why do Christians not acknowledge that pain and suffering come from God".. as opposed to this little dance of trying to say that you are God and that can not be disproved.

God Bless

Key

 

[dvd_holc]

This is my current form so that I can relate to my creation better. When this form dies, I will take the form of another being.

You have misunderstood Jesus.

Is this not what your god does as well: "Babel about all things"? There are no real answers to how the world came, just that a god created it in 6 days. I could give you better answers to any questions you have. Try me.

I can explain all things better than your god. If I wrote a book today claiming to be inspired by my word explaining the things that were explained in the bible, I'd bet 10,000 years from now that my book would be more credible than the bible.

I have tried you, and found you lacking. You have not explain anything. Yet what you have proved is that you are lair for the sack of argument, arrogant, prideful, and just misunderstand God, Jesus, and the understanding of creation with its redemption.

There is no need for me to continue this converstation this way...more to the point.

Why are you really doing this? Ok, in your own view you want to prove us wrong if you can babel about stuff...but that does not answer the question. Why are you really here?

 

[Zocrates]

Because you have not provided what I require, I explained this above, you have no provided in any way to me, any level of Timelessness, or Divinity.

Now, if you were God, at this point, or shall I say, the post I am now currently responding to, you would have known better, and been able to validate your claim, which you have only validated that your claim is false, but, such is the way of things, when mortals think that they can play a mind game and try to say they are a god or gods.

Now as Such the two things that I required, and I have gaged and measured you against, you have been found wanting.

As such, again, I am left with no recourse but to write you off as "another crack pot that thinks they are god" assuming there was any conviction your stand, which there is not, but, if there was, I would write you off as a crack pot, as the case is, I have to say, your attempt to make your point has failed horribly when it has been applied to me.

But Gold stars for your attempts with the others on this forum, and trying to support your stand.

I hope I have provided you an answer to your question, and given you some things to think about.

However, a nicer question would have been, "Why do Christians not acknowledge that pain and suffering come from God".. as opposed to this little dance of trying to say that you are God and that can not be disproved.

God Bless

Key

You have not asked anything of me that your god can give you. Specifically, what has your god shown you as proof that I cannot? Is it the bible and the fact that it's an ancient book? Well there are books older than the bible with other gods that you dont believe in. Also, if that's all it takes, I'll wait 2,000 years or so to become a "real god" to everyone.

How is my divinity being challenged when you have not asked anything of me that you ask from your god. You pray to your god and get no answer the same way you can pray to me and get no answer. Just because you think you get an answer doesn't mean you really are.

You can pray to get a job and if you don't, you chalk it up as god's way of telling you that you weren't meant to get the job. Well if you pray to me to get a job and you don't, I'll just say that "I have a better plan for you".

Get it now?

 

[Key]

You have not asked anything of me that your god can give you.

Correction, I have only asked of you, what my God has already Given me... You have not shall I say... been able to step up to plate.

Specifically, what has your god shown you as proof that I cannot?

asked and answered, this is becoming a broken record...

Look, I appreciate your attempt, it's cute, really.. it is.. but, it's also redundant.

Is it the bible and the fact that it's an ancient book? Well there are books older than the bible with other gods that you dont believe in. Also, if that's all it takes, I'll wait 2,000 years or so to become a "real god" to everyone.

I have read most of those "Ancient books" and they fell short as well, as they did not provide for me, what I demanded. Hence why I do not follow their religions, as why I do not follow modern day religions, and why at the same time, I also write you off as well.

And, if you wrote a book, and waited 2000 years, then I would be able to truly test it's timelessness, which, I would wager, would also be found wanting.

Humans do have the ability to present some level of timelessness, so that at least, should have been an easy one, even for false prophets and "crack pots".. hence why I have two requirements.. not just one...

Neither of which, do you meet.

How is my divinity being challenged when you have not asked anything of me that you ask from your god.

oooooooooooo wait a moment... I asked this of Every "god" I looked at, and I Looked at almost all of them, including some of the lesser known pagan gods and goddesses, as well mysticism and occult. All of them... came up short.. just as have you.

You see, I asked this, before I looked even looked at you, either you would provide or you would not... and.. like some many others.. You did not...

Christianity was not my first choice, it was my last. It was the only one that provided for me, what I demanded.

Something... you have failed miserably to do... just like so many other "man made religions" and "self proclaimed prophets and gods"

You pray to your god and get no answer the same way you can pray to me and get no answer. Just because you think you get an answer doesn't mean you really are.

Prayer has nothing to do with it,

I thought I explained that above, you have been gauge, measured and found wanting at the outset.

You can pray to get a job and if you don't, you chalk it up as god's way of telling you that you weren't meant to get the job. Well if you pray to me to get a job and you don't, I'll just say that "I have a better plan for you".

Get it now?

Oh I get that part of what you are saying, but what you are saying has nothing to do with what I am saying.

But, do you get that I already validated if you "god" . and you failed at the starting gate.. you did not provide what I demanded, when I walked into this with you. So there is no point in humoring you further.

Yes, I know, when you think about it, my requirement is quite simple really, it should be an easy thing for any true or real god to provide... yet....

yet... your found wanting... like so many others.... have been...

I hope I have explained this to you in full detail...

God Bless

Key

 

[Zocrates]

Just because I (as well as other gods) do not provide you with what you want, doesn't make us any less true than your god.

If I tell you that when you die, you'll go to heaven and it'll be one great party, does that make what I'm saying any more "true" than if I told you that absolutely nothing happens when you die, just like an kitten?

You're mistaking "warm fuzzies" with "the truth". Just because I don't give you warm fuzzies doesn't mean I'm not god or that Osiris isn't a real god.

 

[tulc]

He supposedly created humans and then wiped the slate clean once and killed his only son just to try and "straighten us out"....couldn't he have seen that coming?

But....He knew He was going to do that when He created us.
tulc(it's not looking good dude, sure you don't want a prophet?)

 

[dvd_holc]

Just because I (as well as other gods) do not provide you with what you want, doesn't make us any less true than your god.

If I tell you that when you die, you'll go to heaven and it'll be one great party, does that make what I'm saying any more "true" than if I told you that absolutely nothing happens when you die, just like an kitten?

You're mistaking "warm fuzzies" with "the truth". Just because I don't give you warm fuzzies doesn't mean I'm not god or that Osiris isn't a real god.

What is wrong? As soon as I asked you to be more serious, truthful, and pentrating questions about your psyche you ignore it? Why are you trying to make this false persona that you are a god? Are you afraid to tell those around you are god? Why should anyone give you one more second of their time when you only want to lie?

 

[Zocrates]

But....He knew He was going to do that when He created us.
tulc(it's not looking good dude, sure you don't want a prophet?)

And I didn't know that all of this would happen when I originally started this thread? Of course I did. What does it change that god knew he would have to destroy humans when he created them? That only means he made a mistake or wasted his time on purpose.

I'm allowed to do the same.

 

[Key]

Just because I (as well as other gods) do not provide you with what you want, doesn't make us any less true than your god.

If I tell you that when you die, you'll go to heaven and it'll be one great party, does that make what I'm saying any more "true" than if I told you that absolutely nothing happens when you die, just like an kitten?

You're mistaking "warm fuzzies" with "the truth". Just because I don't give you warm fuzzies doesn't mean I'm not god or that Osiris isn't a real god.

Warm fuzzies, and all that jazz has nothing to do with it.

If it was simply a matter of "warm fuzzies" or "big parties in the afterlife" then, any religion could fit your fancy.. or you could make up one of your own (which is what you are providing as an example now).. I would still reject it.. on the principles I set forth. Which settles why your little example is faulty.

But I have a demand, something I can gauge and measure.. and you have failed to provide.. as have so many others.

I would say also.. on the outset regarding prayer, you can not say "yes" and provide.. you do not have a choice in the matter, and that makes all the difference. You can't even make the choice if the prayer is answered, nor can you predict if it will or will not be answered.

Meh.. if you were a crack pot.. such matters of logic would not phase you in the end of things.

I hope I have provided you some things to think about.

God Bless

Key

 

[Zocrates]

Warm fuzzies, and all that jazz has nothing to do with it.

If it was simply a matter of "warm fuzzies" or "big parties in the afterlife" then, any religion could fit your fancy.. or you could make up one of your own (which is what you are providing as an example now)

And you don't think that this is exactly what religious people do? They find a religion that doesn't make them happy, so they twist it to make them comfortable and slap a new brand on it and call it something new.

But I have a demand, something I can gauge and measure.. and you have failed to provide.. as have so many others.

Again, if I fail to provide you with something, that doesn't make me a false god, it just means I choose not to give you something.

I would say also.. on the outset regarding prayer, you can not say "yes" and provide.. you do not have a choice in the matter, and that makes all the difference. You can't even make the choice if the prayer is answered, nor can you predict if it will or will not be answered.

How can you possibly know I don't have a say in the matter? You seem to equate me choosing not to answer your prayer with me not being able to answer your prayer. That's hardly the case.

That sounds eerily familiar with what most atheists go through with your god. They pray, get no answer, and then figure out that "hey, maybe I'm actually just praying to myself and this guy doesn't exist".

I guess that somehow makes you special that your god chooses to talk to you and not others. I guess I need to pray harder or have more faith, eh? Same with me. Whatever I need to do for your god to reveal himself to me is what you need to do for me to reveal myself to you as the true god.

 

[Key]

And you don't think that this is exactly what religious people do? They find a religion that doesn't make them happy, so they twist it to make them comfortable and slap a new brand on it and call it something new.

Yup.. that sounds about right.. things unitarianism, and all that jazz.

That is Human Pride and Ego at play... what do you want me to say.. You hit the nail on the head with that..

Just as people don't think that some religions are strict enough, or not "Hard enough" so they change it, make it harder, and slap a new label on it..

People being corrupt in this way.. is nothing new.. and no "Belief" is immune...

Again, if I fail to provide you with something, that doesn't make me a false god, it just means I choose not to give you something.

No.. it makes you a crack pot.. or a false prophet, or a false God, or more to the point, just "another human claiming to be something they are not"...

I placed a demand, one that was not so hard as to be impossible, like "I need God to come down and prove he is real" or some other lame brained thing along those lines... I have heard so many.. it's becoming laughable...

So I set a standard, if this was Real, it could provide.. something.. simple.. easy for any real God...

How can you possibly know I don't have a say in the matter? You seem to equate me choosing not to answer your prayer with me not being able to answer your prayer. That's hardly the case.

Can you validate this claim?

I doubt it. Call me a Skeptic, well, I am a Skeptic, so.. since, if you are God in the "flesh".... I can skip the whole "Gods needs to come down and prove he's real" yer here... so.. get to the proving...

That sounds eerily familiar with what most atheists go through with your god. They pray, get no answer, and then figure out that "hey, maybe I'm actually just praying to myself and this guy doesn't exist".

I guess that somehow makes you special that your god chooses to talk to you and not others. I guess I need to pray harder or have more faith, eh? Same with me. Whatever I need to do for your god to reveal himself to me is what you need to do for me to reveal myself to you as the true god.

Sorry.. see.. I deal with so many Atheist saying "If your God came down and proved he was God, then I would believe"

Well.. Yer "down".. so get to the Proving... so far... to coin a phase "I am waiting to be impressed"

God Bless

Key

 

[Zocrates]

No.. it makes you a crack pot.. or a false prophet, or a false God, or more to the point, just "another human claiming to be something they are not"...

How is your god any less of a crack pot for not providing evidence to billions on this planet? You act like the evidence your god gives you is so apparent and everyone else is a complete nut case for not seeing what you see.

Just because I refuse to reveal myself to you the way you want doesn't mean I am a crack pot god. It just means that you are not in god's favor. You need to humble yourself and not become so selfish as to think that I will reveal myself on your time.

I placed a demand, one that was not so hard as to be impossible, like "I need God to come down and prove he is real" or some other lame brained thing along those lines... I have heard so many.. it's becoming laughable...

So what sealed the deal with you? What made you believe all of the sudden?

Can you validate this claim?

I validate it the same way your god does: by telling you. Your god tells you in the bible, and at least I am willing to talk to you and answer your questions on this messgae board. I simply choose not to do what it is you are asking. I am god and I can choose to do whatever I please. I work in mysterious ways and you will get your answer when I am good and ready to give it to you.

I doubt it. Call me a Skeptic, well, I am a Skeptic, so.. since, if you are God in the "flesh".... I can skip the whole "Gods needs to come down and prove he's real" yer here... so.. get to the proving...

You're trying to disprove something that cannot be disproven, hence the exercise. You cannot prove that I am not god. I am trying to show you that you cannot prove that I am not god. If I don't do something you ask, it's because "I choose not to". If I die, I just say that I wil take another life form as god.

There's no way to prove that I am not the ruler of the universe. There is also no way to prove that there is no ruler of the universe, and I realize that. I've never made a claim that god, without a doubt, doesn't exist. But given the lack of evidence, I can say that it isn't very likely at this point.....just as you have decided that it isn't at all likely that I am the one true god, based on the evidence.

Sorry.. see.. I deal with so many Atheist saying "If your God came down and proved he was God, then I would believe"

Well.. Yer "down".. so get to the Proving... so far... to coin a phase "I am waiting to be impressed"

Just because you deny my proof doesn't mean that I am not god. You have denied the evidence I have given you just as many atheists have denied the evidence your god has given them.

 

[Key]

How is your god any less of a crack pot for not providing evidence to billions on this planet? You act like the evidence your god gives you is so apparent and everyone else is a complete nut case for not seeing what you see.

This is sounding like a broken record again.. I have explained this many times...

No one is a nut case, for many of them, they just do not want to, or refuse to look at what is in front of them.

Just because I refuse to reveal myself to you the way you want doesn't mean I am a crack pot god. It just means that you are not in god's favor. You need to humble yourself and not become so selfish as to think that I will reveal myself on your time.

I need to humble myself before hand..?

Well that was the deal breaker, Ok.. passing you up... who is the next God on the list?

So what sealed the deal with you? What made you believe all of the sudden?

Well, I would go into Logic, Rational, evidence, and a lot of other things.

But here is the progression.

First, Can what is, Be without some form of outside Force?

From all that I saw, and all the explanations given to me, that said No.. and even today, I still look at them.. they all show.. that there had to be something...

Then, it was just a matter of, what the something was...

After some long drawn out searching.. some 20 years or so... looking at all the religions, and spiritual stuff I could find...

I was let with... Christ...

And.. sadly.. you ain't even close...

See unlike many Atheist I have met, I put a rational, logical demand on Religions, I did not go to such lengths to say truly obnoxous stuff like "Well God has to prove to me he is real" or "If God came down and proved he was real then I would believe" or some happy junk like that...

I had what I had to work with... and from that.. I placed demands on it, on what I had.. not asking for more or less then what was given or provided to me.. and.. in the end, I had to place logic and rational over my own desires, to give each one a fair chance.. and look at them on a level platform...

Now, unlike you.. I did not degrade into emotional appeals, or irrational please, to try and justify what I believed, or that one religion was the same as all others.

See, in this front, what you are doing, is seeking to manufacture evidence to support your theory, even after Logical and rational thought has destroyed your very premise. I know, you don't have much in the arsenal, so appeals and things of this nature are really all that is left.

I validate it the same way your god does: by telling you. Your god tells you in the bible, and at least I am willing to talk to you and answer your questions on this messgae board.

No.. your willing to babble and avoide questions.. there is a diffrence.. as such.. your ignorable as a "Answering Anything" type of "god" and really.. just another "crack pot" or false prophet that seeks to try and slip out of every and any corner they can, as such, unlike a real or true God that could face the situation, you hide.

Not a demand on my part really, one way or the other, but still a sad thing on your front.

I simply choose not to do what it is you are asking. I am god and I can choose to do whatever I please. I work in mysterious ways and you will get your answer when I am good and ready to give it to you.

Ask..? No.. I did not ask anything..

That is again your confusion, and as it stands, your being a very ill informed "deity" are you sure your not like some lesser "god" maybe of "afterthought"... ?

You're trying to disprove something that cannot be disproven, hence the exercise. You cannot prove that I am not god.

have already, it's a done deal, you just do not realize it. hence your entertaining this further.

I am trying to show you that you cannot prove that I am not god.

But.. I already have...

If I don't do something you ask, it's because "I choose not to". If I die, I just say that I wil take another life form as god.

So.. this does not change that you have already been proven to be nothing more then a everyday human, claiming to be something you are not.

There's no way to prove that I am not the ruler of the universe.

Done already..

There is also no way to prove that there is no ruler of the universe, and I realize that.

Huh ?

I've never made a claim that god, without a doubt, doesn't exist. But given the lack of evidence, I can say that it isn't very likely at this point.....just as you have decided that it isn't at all likely that I am the one true god, based on the evidence.

I have concluded that you can not be a "god"..

Given, I am still waiting on the timelessness, you might surprise me there, but Divinity.. is a loss right now.

See, anything , even a Deity should have a Criteria, by which you can gauge if one is real, or not real, based on the evidence you have to work with.

Now, if you walk into something with the mentality that it "can not be real" then you have made your decision before you have run your test, as such, no matter the result, or you will force the result to be as you wish it to be. Humans can lie to themselves quite efficiently.

The problem is, with many people, they do not even know how to work with what they have.

Lets say.. the Bible was Historically Accurate down to every last detail.. does that prove God?

Would it?

To some.. it would.. to others they would say "so what that don't prove anything"...

If God healed the sick and all that jazz.. there would still be people that "That does not prove anything"

One person proposed a time machine concept, and then after ridiculing a Christian who said they would cling their belief even if they saw Evolution happen, they then turned around and admitted that even if they saw Jesus do all that was said and done about him and more, they would still not become a Christian.

Not only that, all the while they were saying this they stuck to the the claim that they were Logical and Rational. It was quite funny to tell the truth.

So, is your conviction a matter of irrational belief, or is is founded in rational.

Mine is rational.

Hence why your little "exercise" is pointless to me, you are under the impression that is all based on maybe the same reasons why you reject Christ.

God Bless

Key

 

[tulc]

That only means he made a mistake or wasted his time on purpose.

Or had a reason you don't know anything about?
tulc(just pointing out like Bill says: There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy)

 

[thinkfreelivefree]

I am the sock prophet of Zocrates. I will write down and recite his work and his glory, however, I will wait 40 years before I attempt this. That is all.

*achoo

 

[Key]

I am the sock prophet of Zocrates. I will write down and recite his work and his glory, however, I will wait 40 years before I attempt this. That is all.

*achoo

I don't know.. you might want to hurry it up.. it will be obsolete by the time you write it down, if you wait that long.

God Bless

Key