Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
We are not to get ourselves into situations where we are testing God. In other words, when you jump off the cliff don't expect the Lord to send angels to rescue you.Let me get this straight!......a small shepard boy in a battle to the death with a Giant, whose spear, practically weighs more than his opponent, and your under the impression that this fight WASN'T COMPLETELY RESTING IN THE LORDS HANDS!.......like all bible stories, numbers mean things, and are in themselves a story, that is why God chose to record them, if the number of stones was irrelevent, we would not even had a record of it.
I have heard one reasoning that when David heard about Goliath, he took one but when he heard that Goliath had 4 relatives who were also giants (this is scriptural), he took up the extra 4 stones. I don't know, but a possibility!
I think there's a lot of depth to this. Is Jesus not our Rock? 5 refers to Grace and Truth. Jesus was completely filled with both. How do we defeat the giants of our flesh, if not by the fullness of Christ?
We are not to get ourselves into situations where we are testing God. In other words, when you jump off the cliff don't expect the Lord to send angels to rescue you.
Matthew 4:7
Jesus answered him, It is also written: Do not put the Lord your God to the test.
At the time, I would imagine that all of the young men of Israel were trained to fight as they grew up, except for the Levites.
By faith... I can see that going on in David's mind as he picks his stones.A Jewish gentleman on a forum I was on several years ago said that the five stones had to do with the Patriarchs. I don't remember exactly how he explained it but I think the five stones were symbolic of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses and Aaron.
well according to scripture the armour of saul was to heavy for himI agree that all young men would have been had some kind of knowledge about combat. The Levites, I don't believe, were a bunch of 'skirts' either! Can you imagine dragging sheep, oxen, goats, and all sorts of animals up to the alters all day!? Whew, the muscles!!!
However, I don't think that David was a 'scrawny boy' at all. I reckon that he was pretty beefed up and would have been mid to late teens but younger than 20 as torah says that the age for going to war is 20 and David was considered too young to go to war. But I don't reckon that a village would put a skinny, weak kid in charge of fighting off potential bears and lions.
David was a warrior? A skilled warrior?
some good points!....although I have to imagine much like in the case of Samson, there is strength and there is super natural strength, and when the Spirit of God comes upon a man, he is undefeatable, against a bear, a lion or even a giant.....natural man would be ripped to shreds, and killed, but the man God choses to put His Spirit is a man that can do extrordinary thingsEasy G (G²);59032418 said:One can only go off what the text says, in regards to his abilities for battle..as it concerns his being described in perfect health ( I Samuel 16:12 ) and that he was one of Saul's armor-bearers (1 Samuel 16:20-22 ) prior to fighting with Golitah. Being an armor-bearer required that one KNOW how to fight/defeat others since you were essentially a body-guard.
1 Samuel 17:42Moreover, it takes EXCEDDINGLY good skill/strength to kill a bear....especially when considering how vicious they are and what they look like when fighting or hunting (especially when thinking about Grizzlies) or bear wrestling.
He looked David over and saw that he was little more than a boy, glowing with health and handsome, and he despised him.
1 Samuel 17:41-43
As the folks at "Answers in Genesis" said best:I Samuel 17:34
But David said to Saul, Your servant has been keeping his fathers sheep. When a lion or a bear came and carried off a sheep from the flock, 35 I went after it, struck it and rescued the sheep from its mouth. When it turned on me, I seized it by its hair, struck it and killed it. 36 Your servant has killed both the lion and the bear; this uncircumcised Philistine will be like one of them, because he has defied the armies of the living God. 37 The LORD who rescued me from the paw of the lion and the paw of the bear will rescue me from the hand of this Philistine.
Saul said to David, Go, and the LORD be with you.
Psalm 144:1
Of David. Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.
The Bible provides detailed biographical information about David. Although he is first mentioned in the book of Ruth as the son of Jesse, we find our first description of him in 1 Samuel 16 where he is anointed by Samuel to be the next king of Israel. David was the youngest of eight brothers, and his appearance was "ruddy, with bright eyes, and good-looking" (1 Samuel 16:12).
Prior to seeing David, Samuel was impressed by the physical stature of David's brother Eliab and thought that he was the one God would choose. However, the Lord told Samuel, "Do not look at his appearance or at his physical stature, because I have refused him. For the Lord does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart" (1 Samuel 16:7).
Perhaps this passage is where some people get the notion that David was small. He was the youngest, and his oldest and quite impressive brother was rejected. Since Samuel was told not to look at the outside, maybe David was small, but the text does not reveal this. In fact, there are several clues that David, although young, may have actually been a rather large man by the time he fought Goliath.
David the Armor Bearer
Sometime after David was anointed, King Saul was being troubled by a "distressing spirit" (1 Samuel 16:14). The king was advised to call for a skilled harpist to play for him, because the music might bring him relief. One of Saul's servants suggested David because he was "skillful in playing, a mighty man of valor, a man of war, prudent in speech, and a handsome person; and the Lord is with him" (1 Samuel 16:18, emphasis added). David played for Saul and was successful in comforting the king. As a result, the king made David his armor bearer (1 Samuel 16:21).
Many people believe David was still serving as a shepherd for his father when he fought Goliath. This belief is likely based on 1 Samuel 17:17 where Jesse tells his son to take food to his brothers who were camped out for battle. However, since David was already Saul's armor bearer, then he probably lived with (or near) Saul in Gibeah (1 Samuel 15:34). 1 Samuel 17:15 reveals that David occasionally returned from Saul to feed his father's sheep in Bethlehem.1 So David was not a full-time shepherd who was just on a special visit to Israel's army. He was an armor bearer for the king who helped his father on an irregular basis.
One may object to this timing by pointing out that after David killed Goliath, he was brought before the king, and Saul asked David, "Whose son are you, young man?" (1 Samuel 17:58). On the surface, this seems to show that Saul was not acquainted with David yet, but if that is true, it seems to contradict 1 Samuel 16:21 and 17:15, which tells us David and Saul knew each other well. Perhaps Saul had forgotten who David's father was. While these passages are only a chapter apart in Scripture, several months or years may have passed between David becoming the armor bearer and his battle with Goliath.
There are two alternative reasons Saul may have asked this question. It seems Saul gave David a public ceremony (or at least an audience with the king) in which he could bring honor to his family. After all, David was now a celebrity, and it seems fitting that Saul would acknowledge his heroic actions before the people. The fact that David was brought before Saul by Abner, the military commander, and that David came carrying the head of Goliath supports this interpretation (1 Samuel 17:57).
Perhaps a better solution is that Saul had already promised he would give his daughter in marriage to the man who killed Goliath. Also, the father of the champion would be exempt from paying taxes in Israel (1 Samuel 17:25). David's lineage had to be known by the king so that he could follow through on these two promises.
David and Goliath
The following passage contains the description of the giant Goliath. Goliath was an incredibly large and strong man:
And a champion went out from the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, from Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span [appx. 9'9"]2. He had a bronze helmet on his head, and he was armed with a coat of mail, and the weight of the coat was five thousand shekels of bronze [roughly 125 pounds]. And he had bronze armor on his legs and a bronze javelin between his shoulders. Now the staff of his spear was like a weaver's beam, and his iron spearhead weighed six hundred shekels [about 15 pounds]; and a shield-bearer went before him. (1 Samuel 17:47, bracketed information added)It is difficult to imagine a person so large. Most people look small next to me since I am 6'9" (and have often been called a giant), but Goliath was a full three feet taller than me and much stronger! His coat of mail weighed 125 pounds, and just the tip of his spear was 15 pounds. Wearing this armor and wielding such a weapon in battle would require tremendous strength.
Some have tried to reduce or downplay these staggering figures,3 but there are problems with these claims. For example, Hays and Billington presuppose that David was about 5'3" and the latter argues that Goliath was measured by David's shorter-than-standard cubit, thus reducing Goliath's height significantly. However, it is highly improbable that David was this height at this point in his life given the following details.
First, since David came from the same parents (or at least the same father) that produced his physically impressive brother Eliab, David may very well have grown to a similar size.
Second, David was so offended by the Philistine's words against the living God that he volunteered to fight the giant. Saul's reaction to David's offer is telling. Notice that he did not claim that David was too small, although even the tallest people today would be dwarfed by Goliath. Instead, Saul said, "You are not able to go against this Philistine to fight with him; for you are a youth, and he a man of war from his youth" (1 Samuel 17:33, emphasis added). Saul tried to dissuade David by appealing to David's youth and Goliath's experience. The Hebrew word translated as "youth" (נַעַר, na'ar) can refer to any age from an infant (Moses in Exodus 2:6) to someone old enough to lead a military coup (Absalom in 2 Samuel 18:32).
Third, David responded that he "used to keep his father's sheep, and when a lion or a bear came and took a lamb out of the flock, I went out after it and struck it, and delivered the lamb from its mouth; and when it arose against me, I caught it by its beard, and struck and killed it" (1 Samuel 17:3435). Now we can understand why David was called a "mighty man of valor" in the previous chapter. He was young, but he was quite strong and brave.
While these facts above don't necessarily indicate his height, the following verses provide some clues. King Saul agreed to let David fight Goliath, so he offered David his own armor to use for the battlelikely the very same armor David had borne for Saul as his armor bearer. Remember, when Saul became king it was said about him that "From his shoulders upward he was taller than any of the people" (1 Samuel 9:2; 10:23).4
Although Saul acted foolishly on several occasions, he was not unintelligent. If he was one of the tallest men in the land, why would he offer a small young man his armor, knowing it would never fit and would only reduce his odds of winning the battle? If David was much smaller, Saul could have easily commanded a soldier closer to David's size to lend David his armor.
But didn't David refuse the armor because it didn't fit? Not at all! Actually, David said, "I cannot walk with these, for I have not tested them" (1 Samuel 17:39). This implies that David was roughly the same size as Saul and the armor did fit, but he rejected the offer because he was not accustomed to wearing this particular armor.
Finally, after using a sling and a stone to defeat Goliath, David used Goliath's own sword to decapitate the fallen giant (1 Samuel 17:51). Although the Bible does not tell us exactly how big the sword was, David does state that it was unique (1 Samuel 21:9). The Bible also reveals that the rest of Goliath's weaponry and armor were quite massive, so there is good reason to believe the sword was large as well. David kept Goliath's armor and would eventually wield the sword himself (1 Samuel 17:54; 21:9). The fact that David was capable of using the giant's weapon provides another clue that he may have indeed been a mighty man.
I definately think that there's no contradiction between having strength that one trains themselves to have through discipline/battle...and then supernatural strength given by the Lord. Technically, the Spirit of the Lord is involved in both since all good things/gifts and talents come from him. Even for the greatest athlete who trains to break new records, his skill to do so is a gift of the Lord--but it can be augmented to do the impossible.some good points!....although I have to imagine much like in the case of Samson, there is strength and there is super natural strength, and when the Spirit of God comes upon a man, he is undefeatable, against a bear, a lion or even a giant.....natural man would be ripped to shreds, and killed, but the man God choses to put His Spirit is a man that can do extrordinary things
Yes, and it would have been too large for him as well. You must take into consideration what it says about Saul, physically speaking.well according to scripture the armour of saul was to heavy for him
He had a son named Saul, an impressive young man. There was no one more impressive among the Israelites than he. He stood a head taller than anyone else.
David did not use strength or fighting ability to bring Goliath down. He used the skill of accuracy. His aim was dead on the one spot that would kill him. The Philistines did not understand this, but our Maker did. They were probably more afraid that G-d was with David and the supernatural ability than anything else.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?