Why Catholics become Protestants

[christseeker45]

Is "people who choose to believe a truncated, half-true version of Christ rather than the Truth as handed down from Him through the ages" too wordy?

a bit

 

[christseeker45]

the problem is (and I have a huge problem with this) that in some Protestant circles, I get the feeling that we're supposed to exude all this joy and fire and zeal for the Lord and that if you don't, it means that your relationship with God is supposedly not good enough.

Never thought about that before. I never see any struggle with joy, I don't mean emotion but a joy that comes from the Holy Spirit. It's hard to explain but I know I lost some when I became Catholic but that may have been me and how I saw Catholicism.

 

[Simon_Templar]

My favor quote in this article (for those who think a "smaller more faithful Chruch" is a good idea:

"... both as believers and as worshipers, Catholics who become Protestants are statistically better Christians than those who stay Catholic. We are losing the best, not the worst."

The hidden exodus: Catholics becoming Protestants | National Catholic Reporter

Hi Charlie,

Speaking as one raised as a non-denominational protestant, here is what I can tell you.

In my 30 some years in the evangelical protestant world, I knew many people who converted from Catholicism. In the last 7 years or so I began a journey to the traditiona, historic faith and for the first time I discovered that there were actually protestants who converted to Catholicism, and I began to read what they had to say etc.

In my experience, this is what I've found.

Regarding Catholics who convert to Protestantism (keep in mind this is specifically evangelical non-denom protestant which probably skews the results). In every case that I ever personally encountered, or heard of, the person who converted was essentially a Catholic who didn't really know Catholic tecahing, and/or didn't really believe it on a personal level.

In other words, they were people who had been born into Catholic families and had gone to Church, but they had no sense of really knowing God, or of God having any direct, or personal involvement in their life. Their faith was to them, essentially a set of rules which either got you into heaven or condemned you to hell. It was not about communion with a living, personal, God.

They became protestant because they some how had an experience in a protestant setting in which they were introduced to the idea that they could actually know God and have a living relationship with him. As a result they often do become very good Christians.

In most of these cases the people were really not believers in the full sense of the word before and they became protestant because it was the first time in their life they actually were introduced to God and told that he wanted them to know him and to be in communion with him.

Most of the people I knew also came from a background where they viewed catholcism as completely legalistic. (like if you don't say just the right words, and genuflect just right you go to hell kind of legalism).


When I began to become aware of the movement of protestants back to the historic faith, some Anglicans, some Catholics, some Orthodox, etc. I found that the situation was drastically different.

In every case I encountered the protestant who was moving back towards the historic faith was a person who had basically plumbed the depths of evangelical protestantism and found that they were missing something. The faith as they knew it was simply incomplete. There was never any question about the truth of God, or that they had a real relationship with God, but the practice and teaching of the faith had simply come up shallow and failed to meet the deeper longings of their soul. As a result they began to rediscover what they were missing in returning to the idea of sacraments and liturgy, and all the truth and depth that those things open up.


I'm sure there are also Catholics who convert to other liturgical traditional type groups as well, and probably for different reasons than what I laid out, but I don't have experience with those situations.

 

[benedictaoo]

Unfortunately, the part I underlined is not what you said in your original post, which in fact was:

Originally Posted by benedictaoo

I both agree and disagree Charlie. The good Catholics are just disgusted and fed up of all the bull but if they were really good they would stick it out cuz where else they are gonna go?

Its either this Church or none.


​

No reference to you personalising the argument or referring to your situation, and is therefore antagonistic.

The rest of your argument is equally unsuccessful. Believing that Protestant Churches will fail if the Catholic Church does is like saying Toyota will go out of business because Ford no longer manufacture the Model "T".

ah, hey... This is the Catholic section of the forum. unfortunately for you, this is acceptable for us in here to say this and you really can not debate it or argue about it in here.

If y'all want to take it all as an insult, then go ahead but its nothing but pure truth and it is as insulting for us to state this "one true Church thing" as it is insulting for you to state that not all people where specially chosen by God to be saved and some where born to go to hell.

as insulting, offensive, (and false) that is to us, I get this is what you believe is true... and if you said it in the Calvin section of the forums, I would not blink an eye that you are trying to on purpose insult me. You are just stating what you believe to be true. Its nothing personal.

So with that said, in this area, we can say what we believe and you really can't debate it in here. Just like I could not go where you are and debate what you believe.

 

[benedictaoo]

Never thought about that before. I never see any struggle with joy, I don't mean emotion but a joy that comes from the Holy Spirit. It's hard to explain but I know I lost some when I became Catholic but that may have been me and how I saw Catholicism.

One of Protestantism greatest errors, IMO, is thinking is all gravy all the time. Its all supposed to be zeal and joy and happy times... The Christian life is a sacrifice- (John Paul ll). It is not a cake walk. The reality is, we suffer and struggle and carry about a million crosses in our life time. That is the narrow road we are put on that so many have trouble finding. The mark is one will carry the cross with out being bitter and resentful. So that would be the "happy". In the face of suffering, they will keep their joy but its not party time joy.

That is not to say we can't find joy in the midst of this, we can but the joy is in knowing Christ. Its difficult to explain. It really is but any Catholic/Christian person who is measuring themselves based on emotion and their flaming fire burning with in is setting themselves up for a let down. We do experience that at times and it carries us through certain times but this is not built on that nor should we base this on that. If we do, we will be disillusioned.

Its really not about that.

 

[Nicaenum]

One of Protestantism greatest errors, IMO, is thinking is all gravy all the time. Its all supposed to be zeal and joy and happy times... The Christian life is a sacrifice- (John Paul ll). It is not a cake walk. The reality is, we suffer and struggle and carry about a million crosses in our life time. That is the narrow road we are put on that so many have trouble finding. The mark is one will carry the cross with out being bitter and resentful. So that would be the "happy". In the face of suffering, they will keep their joy but its not party time joy.

That is not to say we can't find joy in the midst of this, we can but the joy is in knowing Christ. Its difficult to explain. It really is but any Catholic/Christian person who is measuring themselves based on emotion and their flaming fire burning with in is setting themselves up for a let down. We do experience that at times and it carries us through certain times but this is not built on that nor should we base this on that. If we do, we will be disillusioned.

Its really not about that.

This is a great post because it highlights the true divine between Catholic and Protestant theologies. We always talk about Papal Infallibility, Mariology, rosaries, and the like but on a very fundamental level most Protestant theology is void of what the Orthodox call theosis and with Catholic ideas about having a share in Calvary and redemptive suffering. It is such a polar opposite sort of thing. Some Anglicans have it, but it's mostly a RCC/Orth. mindset.

As someone who is praying and discerning about my life with Christ and where I want to be, I can tell you...this divide is very deep and is the font for the entire Catholic vs. Protestant issue, in my mind.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

One of Protestantism greatest errors, IMO, is thinking is all gravy all the time.

That is not to say we can't find joy in the midst of this, we can but the joy is in knowing Christ. Its difficult to explain. It really is but any Catholic/Christian person who is measuring themselves based on emotion and their flaming fire burning with in is setting themselves up for a let down.
Its really not about that.

Our God is a consuming fire

Reve 1:14 The yet head of Him, and the hairs are white as wool, white as snow, and the eyes of Him as flame of fire.
15 And the feet of Him like to white-bronze, as in a furnace having been refined/fired, and the voice of Him as voice of waters, many.

Reve 19:11 And I saw the heaven open up and behold! a white horse and the One sitting on him *called faithful* and true and in righteousness is judging and is battling.
12 The yet eyes of Him a flame of fire and upon the head of Him, diadems, many, having a name having been written which no-one has seen except He.

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

Luke 16:24 And he sounding said: "Father Abraham! be thou merciful to-me! and send Lazarus!, that he should be dipping the tip of the finger of him of water, and should be cooling down the tongue of me,--
that I am being pained in this flame."

 

[crimsonleaf]

ah, hey... This is the Catholic section of the forum. unfortunately for you, this is acceptable for us in here to say this and you really can not debate it or argue about it in here.

If y'all want to take it all as an insult, then go ahead but its nothing but pure truth and it is as insulting for us to state this "one true Church thing" as it is insulting for you to state that not all people where specially chosen by God to be saved and some where born to go to hell.

as insulting, offensive, (and false) that is to us, I get this is what you believe is true... and if you said it in the Calvin section of the forums, I would not blink an eye that you are trying to on purpose insult me. You are just stating what you believe to be true. Its nothing personal.

So with that said, in this area, we can say what we believe and you really can't debate it in here. Just like I could not go where you are and debate what you believe.

Ah, so this is the forum where you discuss how inferior other Christians are and they don't get to reply? I geddit. Enjoy your elevated and Holier than Thou position, and, BYE.

 

[Basil the Great]

It is helps make some of you feel better, I have read that Protestant converts to Catholicism are more dedicated to their new faith than those born into the Church. I have also read that Protestant converts to Eastern Orthodoxy tend to be the same.

 

[Nicaenum]

It is helps make some of you feel better, I have read that Protestant converts to Catholicism are more dedicated to their new faith than those born into the Church. I have also read that Protestant converts to Eastern Orthodoxy tend to be the same.

Converts are always more zealous. If they weren't, they wouldn't have converted in the first place. I find that the liberal Catholics I know are all cradle Catholics. I know a few people who are inspired by SSPX, want Latin masses, are studying theology and the like and many are converts.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

It is helps make some of you feel better, I have read that Protestant converts to Catholicism are more dedicated to their new faith than those born into the Church. I have also read that Protestant converts to Eastern Orthodoxy tend to be the same.

I think we have to be careful when making such conclusions, and also need to define what one means by "more dedicated".

 

[BBCath]

Ah, so this is the forum where you discuss how inferior other Christians are and they don't get to reply? I geddit. Enjoy your elevated and Holier than Thou position, and, BYE.

Exactly!

One of Protestantism greatest errors, IMO, is thinking is all gravy all the time. Its all supposed to be zeal and joy and happy times... The Christian life is a sacrifice- (John Paul ll). It is not a cake walk. The reality is, we suffer and struggle and carry about a million crosses in our life time. That is the narrow road we are put on that so many have trouble finding. The mark is one will carry the cross with out being bitter and resentful. So that would be the "happy". In the face of suffering, they will keep their joy but its not party time joy.

That is not to say we can't find joy in the midst of this, we can but the joy is in knowing Christ. Its difficult to explain. It really is but any Catholic/Christian person who is measuring themselves based on emotion and their flaming fire burning with in is setting themselves up for a let down. We do experience that at times and it carries us through certain times but this is not built on that nor should we base this on that. If we do, we will be disillusioned.

Its really not about that.

That's not true! Oh My Goodness!!! Where are you getting your information on Protestants from?????

NO ONE EVER said that following Jesus Christ "is all gravy all the time"!! In fact, I was always taught that you will have more opposition in your life because of it.

Yes we should have joy in the Lord! Galatians - Chp 5:

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control...

However, we also know that trials and tribulations do come our way. Our strength is in the fact that Jesus paid the price so we can live with Him! It is this assurance in which we receive our joy!

James - Chp 1:

2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials

Joy is an emotion - we, as humans, are emotional creatures. God created us this way. Saying that joy is not an emotion, to me, is like saying that love and peace aren't emotions either.

When you remove the emotional part of worship, the only thing you are left with is the supposedly "legalistic" and "ritual" part of worship - which, in turn, is why Catholics turn away from the faith.

 

[MKJ]

This is a great post because it highlights the true divine between Catholic and Protestant theologies. We always talk about Papal Infallibility, Mariology, rosaries, and the like but on a very fundamental level most Protestant theology is void of what the Orthodox call theosis and with Catholic ideas about having a share in Calvary and redemptive suffering. It is such a polar opposite sort of thing. Some Anglicans have it, but it's mostly a RCC/Orth. mindset.

As someone who is praying and discerning about my life with Christ and where I want to be, I can tell you...this divide is very deep and is the font for the entire Catholic vs. Protestant issue, in my mind.

I find it hard to look at Protestantism historically and characterize it as thinking it is all gravy, all the time. That can be seen among some, but by no means all. Spleeny Lutherans, Huguenots being chased out of France, Puritans, dour Calvinists.... not really happy-claapy types.

But it isn't true either that Protestantism has nothing comparable to theosis. All of the main streams of Protestantism do, it is often called "sanctification".

 

[Ortho_Cat]

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[Diane_Windsor]

I think it's fair to say that some Christians are better than other Christians regardless of their stripe. I certainly think its fair to say that Saint Kolbe was a better Catholic than Joseph Goebbels was.

I'd consider that Maximilian Kolbe was a Christian by his fruit, but that Joseph Goebbels was not. I think that was an odd choice of words the article's author used

 

[christseeker45]

One of Protestantism greatest errors, IMO, is thinking is all gravy all the time. Its all supposed to be zeal and joy and happy times... The Christian life is a sacrifice- (John Paul ll). It is not a cake walk. The reality is, we suffer and struggle and carry about a million crosses in our life time. That is the narrow road we are put on that so many have trouble finding. The mark is one will carry the cross with out being bitter and resentful. So that would be the "happy". In the face of suffering, they will keep their joy but its not party time joy.

That is not to say we can't find joy in the midst of this, we can but the joy is in knowing Christ. Its difficult to explain. It really is but any Catholic/Christian person who is measuring themselves based on emotion and their flaming fire burning with in is setting themselves up for a let down. We do experience that at times and it carries us through certain times but this is not built on that nor should we base this on that. If we do, we will be disillusioned.

Its really not about that.

I am not talking about an emotion at all, it has nothing to do with emotion. There is a joy, unspeakable joy in them that I have not seen in my Catholic friends and family. I never meant any Christian who thinks it is a cakewalk (only mischaracterizations here) and I not meant a Catholic with that kind of joy

 

[lismore]

I am not talking about an emotion at all, it has nothing to do with emotion. There is a joy, unspeakable joy in them that I have not seen in my Catholic friends and family. I never meant any Christian who thinks it is a cakewalk (only mischaracterizations here) and I not meant a Catholic with that kind of joy

Hello There!

My perspective may be of interest to you.

It's that where-ever you find yourself, in whatever church or workplace you serve the Lord joyfully and try to help others with a pure heart. Love the Lord and love your neighbour.

In various capacities I have been involved in various churches and fellowships, my opinion is that each has a mix. There are people in every church following Christ and people who are not. People who want to serve God and people who are there for other motives. That's my opinion.

What I would class as 'Protestant' churches are experiencing many of the same issues as the Catholic church is from the article. The Church of Scotland (presbyterian) is also decreasing~ I would class them as the protestant church here.

In my experience the churches that are growing, sometimes explosively are African Pentecostal, Charismatic and Baptist. I know many people in those churches would be offended if labelled protestant, particularly the pentecostal/charismatics. In that sense, in my opinion, the article does not understand what it is labelling as a homogeneous 'Protestant' church.

Many charismatics would go out and try to witness to protestants.

God Bless

 

[MKJ]

Hello There!

My perspective may be of interest to you.

It's that where-ever you find yourself, in whatever church or workplace you serve the Lord joyfully and try to help others with a pure heart. Love the Lord and love your neighbour.

In various capacities I have been involved in various churches and fellowships, my opinion is that each has a mix. There are people in every church following Christ and people who are not. People who want to serve God and people who are there for other motives. That's my opinion.

What I would class as 'Protestant' churches are experiencing many of the same issues as the Catholic church is from the article. The Church of Scotland (presbyterian) is also decreasing~ I would class them as the protestant church here.

In my experience the churches that are growing, sometimes explosively are African Pentecostal, Charismatic and Baptist. I know many people in those churches would be offended if labelled protestant, particularly the pentecostal/charismatics. In that sense, in my opinion, the article does not understand what it is labelling as a homogeneous 'Protestant' church.

Many charismatics would go out and try to witness to protestants.

God Bless

While it is true some of these groups don't like to be labeled "Protestant", and the reasons may have some merit, historically they do grow out of Protestant modes of thought.

It is true though that people often assume that the groups broadly labeled Protestant have a lot more in common, even in their historical roots, than is actually the case.

People also tend to take their local experience as more universal than it really is - it seems like in much of the US those high-growth churches you mention are really a huge presence. I don't find them as ubiquitous here in Canada, and in Europe people seem to think of Protestantism quite differently. I even knew some English Baptists and they seemed to have very little in common with the Baptists that I know here - they really reminded me of very low church Anglicans in their attitude.

 

[lismore]

Hello there!

Thanks for replying to me

It is true though that people often assume that the groups broadly labeled Protestant have a lot more in common, even in their historical roots, than is actually the case.

Interesting

It does seem that the generic term 'Protestant' is being misused. I agree that a lot of churches don't see themselves as coming from Catholicism or Protestantism and would probably lump both Catholics and Protestants in the same boat.

I even knew some English Baptists and they seemed to have very little in common with the Baptists that I know here - they really reminded me of very low church Anglicans in their attitude.

Baptist churches tend to be independent and congregational. Their view is perhaps that unity is not the same as conformity on every issue?

God Bless

 

[lismore]

I post in fellowship:

Eighty-one percent of respondents say they joined their new church because they enjoy the religious service and style of worship of their new faith.

This quote from the article seems to suggest the Charismatic style church and not Protestant Churches.

The exuberant style, more upbeat nature and liberty of worship=Charismatic IMO.

God Bless