In the bible it says that blasphemy of the holy spirit is the one unforgivable sin, what if someone that was an agnostic was blasphemous, but then later in his life accepts jeusus as his lord and savior. Since he commited the unforgivible sin, blasphemy a few times, would he go to hell? If so why should he bother to go on as being a christian?
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why bother?
- Thread starter metalohyea
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Digit
Senior Veteran
Hi metaloyhea,
Odd question coming from a Chrisitian, in a forum for non-Christians, but nevertheless blasphemy and blasphemy against the Holy spirit are not the same thing.
The former is when we use God's name in vain, as a curse. The latter is when we reject the holy spirit. There is no salvation for those that reject Christ.
Hebrews 10:26
"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"
All the best,
Digit
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I wrote in here, becuase i thought my question could help those who are non-christians aswell, and also im a little unclear about it.
So if a person rejected the holy spirt (by rejected, do you mean not accepting it, or turning away from it?) but if they rejected it, then realised later on in life that they were wrong and they accept jesus as their lord and savior, they still would not be saved, even though they wanted to be, and they seeked the lord?
So if a person rejected the holy spirt (by rejected, do you mean not accepting it, or turning away from it?) but if they rejected it, then realised later on in life that they were wrong and they accept jesus as their lord and savior, they still would not be saved, even though they wanted to be, and they seeked the lord?
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Digit
Senior Veteran
Heya,
Yes I mean rejecting it as you have defined. If a person permanently rejects Christ, then there can be no salvation for that person. In addition to that, God will harden that person's heart and give them over to the depravity they long for. At this stage, salvation is much less likely to ever occur. Just as pharaoh hardened his heart against God, so did God harden it. Pharaoh had committed that unforgiveable sin as I see it.
If you want to read a more detailed explanation, heres a good link.
Cheers!
Digit
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Thanks Digit, that link was really helpful, im sure it will be helpful to others too, now i understand what is meant by the unpardonable sin, cheers!
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jive4005
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This one isn't so hard.
Couple of things.
With God, you are only responsible for what you (really)know(have accurate knowledge of...). Now, once you KNOW, then it's a whole different thing!
Now, most people don't really understand the "grieving the Holy Spirit" thing. It's about KNOWING God (HS) and then still rejecting Him.
We all gave God a hard time before we got saved. Some of us still do... but hopefully maturing.
I know in my own case, God was forgiving enough that He removed from me all doubts about His love, compassion and forgiveness.
Try letting go of any fear of Him (except the "reverence" kind. It IS worth the bother.
His,
Rev J
Couple of things.
With God, you are only responsible for what you (really)know(have accurate knowledge of...). Now, once you KNOW, then it's a whole different thing!
Now, most people don't really understand the "grieving the Holy Spirit" thing. It's about KNOWING God (HS) and then still rejecting Him.
We all gave God a hard time before we got saved. Some of us still do... but hopefully maturing.
I know in my own case, God was forgiving enough that He removed from me all doubts about His love, compassion and forgiveness.
Try letting go of any fear of Him (except the "reverence" kind. It IS worth the bother.
His,
Rev J
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Have you ever seen God in the flesh? And if you did, did you see Him perform a miracle? And if so, did you give the credit to the devil?
If you can answer yes to all three, you blasphemed the Holy Spirit.
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TheListener
Save a cow - eat a vegetarian!
Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is not what you see on YouTube. Those kids are just being stupid.
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dvd_holc
Senior Veteran
To take about the teaching of blasphemes, I think this needs to be taken in a little bigger context:
Luke 12:4I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. 5But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. 6Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. 7Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Dont be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.
8I tell you, whoever publicly acknowledges me, the Son of Man will also acknowledge before the angels of God. 9But whoever publicly disowns me will be disowned before the angels of God. 10And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
11When you are brought before synagogues, rulers and authorities, do not worry about how you will defend yourselves or what you will say, 12for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say.
Fear whom? (verses 4-12)
Throughout scriptures and our daily lives, the issue of fear comes up often. The most frequent commandment in bible is the handling of fear. For instance both, Isaiah and Ezekiel saw a vision of the throne of God and steps were taken so they did not fear. Also, Proverb 1:7The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but foolsdespise wisdom and instruction. Much of our lives can become reactionary to fear. We dont want to look bad in front of others and fear their disapproval, so we take steps to avoid their disproval. We dont want to loss our jobs, so we fear our bosses and submit to them. In the first century, there was a particular kind of Pharisee like Job who feared the Lord. This kind of Pharisee fear committing any sin, and took steps to detach himself from the temptation. But what is the kind of fear that is God honoring and the kind of fear that is gratifying to the flesh? Which fear is the more important? Instinctively, we (Christians) would say that the correct answer is God is placed number one, but a lot our actions display that we fear of disappointment of people and self perseverance which is only a temporary moment are more important than God which is in the eternal. Each time we circum to the fear of the moment we are announcing that we have more dependence and respect the lust of the sinful pursuits than God.
Right after Jesus talks about fear, He moves to acknowledging the Son of Man, why? The proverb that I just quoted said, Those who fear YHVH is the beginning of knowledge. Jesus is teaching that He is the knowledge of God; He is the Righteous One that all are commanded to be like.
Now, Jesus says that to speak a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but those who blasphemy the Spirit will not be forgiven. Where is He coming from? When He is talking about forgiveness, I believe we should go directly to the existing sacrificial system. In Numbers 15, Moses details out the sacrifices for unintentional (unknown) sins. The offerings for this kind of sin were ordained for twice a day every day. God knew that we could not obey completely effectively, and gave us a picture of how we have peace with God even in our ignorance. Several times, Jesus purposely conceals His identity and purpose in many different and cryptic ways. As a result, Jesus mercy was such that even though people dont fully grasp His complete identity and purpose that this will not unyielding barrier in their relationship with God. However, He has a sharp contrast to not knowing Jesus fully to intentional sins At the end of the ordinance for unintentional sins was this commandment: Numbers 15:30 But anyone who sins defiantly, whether native-born or foreigner, blasphemes the LORD and must be cut off from their people .
Our intentional sins are a direct misuse of the Name of God. He gave us the honor of bearing His Name for His glory as we were made in His likeness. The intentional sins were so harmful to His Name and the world that they warranted death right then. As we follow the teachings in Numbers 15, the Sabbath breaker was put to death and God instructed Israel to wear a visual aid to help them remember all the commandments. Now, it was believed that even though a condemned person was sentenced to death, they could still repent and could live on in the World to Come. A prime example of this is when the zealot on the cross with Jesus repents. The forgiveness of the intentional sins was done once a year on the Day of Atonement as a picture to the final Day of Atonement for the people in the World to Come.
Also, Paul writes in Romans 2:2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who "will render to each one according to his deeds": 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
Application:
As Christians, we are very passionate about loving God and each other, but our lives have to be in submission to our Creator and King in whom we fear and respect. Through our submission, we live the way that Jesus demonstrated. We give no room for the momentary fears to dominate our choices in which lies blasphemy. Rather, only those things which give honor to God that the angels rejoice and we might not be put to shame.
Luke 12:4I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. 5But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. 6Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. 7Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Dont be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.
8I tell you, whoever publicly acknowledges me, the Son of Man will also acknowledge before the angels of God. 9But whoever publicly disowns me will be disowned before the angels of God. 10And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
11When you are brought before synagogues, rulers and authorities, do not worry about how you will defend yourselves or what you will say, 12for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say.
Fear whom? (verses 4-12)
Throughout scriptures and our daily lives, the issue of fear comes up often. The most frequent commandment in bible is the handling of fear. For instance both, Isaiah and Ezekiel saw a vision of the throne of God and steps were taken so they did not fear. Also, Proverb 1:7The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but foolsdespise wisdom and instruction. Much of our lives can become reactionary to fear. We dont want to look bad in front of others and fear their disapproval, so we take steps to avoid their disproval. We dont want to loss our jobs, so we fear our bosses and submit to them. In the first century, there was a particular kind of Pharisee like Job who feared the Lord. This kind of Pharisee fear committing any sin, and took steps to detach himself from the temptation. But what is the kind of fear that is God honoring and the kind of fear that is gratifying to the flesh? Which fear is the more important? Instinctively, we (Christians) would say that the correct answer is God is placed number one, but a lot our actions display that we fear of disappointment of people and self perseverance which is only a temporary moment are more important than God which is in the eternal. Each time we circum to the fear of the moment we are announcing that we have more dependence and respect the lust of the sinful pursuits than God.
Right after Jesus talks about fear, He moves to acknowledging the Son of Man, why? The proverb that I just quoted said, Those who fear YHVH is the beginning of knowledge. Jesus is teaching that He is the knowledge of God; He is the Righteous One that all are commanded to be like.
Now, Jesus says that to speak a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but those who blasphemy the Spirit will not be forgiven. Where is He coming from? When He is talking about forgiveness, I believe we should go directly to the existing sacrificial system. In Numbers 15, Moses details out the sacrifices for unintentional (unknown) sins. The offerings for this kind of sin were ordained for twice a day every day. God knew that we could not obey completely effectively, and gave us a picture of how we have peace with God even in our ignorance. Several times, Jesus purposely conceals His identity and purpose in many different and cryptic ways. As a result, Jesus mercy was such that even though people dont fully grasp His complete identity and purpose that this will not unyielding barrier in their relationship with God. However, He has a sharp contrast to not knowing Jesus fully to intentional sins At the end of the ordinance for unintentional sins was this commandment: Numbers 15:30 But anyone who sins defiantly, whether native-born or foreigner, blasphemes the LORD and must be cut off from their people .
Our intentional sins are a direct misuse of the Name of God. He gave us the honor of bearing His Name for His glory as we were made in His likeness. The intentional sins were so harmful to His Name and the world that they warranted death right then. As we follow the teachings in Numbers 15, the Sabbath breaker was put to death and God instructed Israel to wear a visual aid to help them remember all the commandments. Now, it was believed that even though a condemned person was sentenced to death, they could still repent and could live on in the World to Come. A prime example of this is when the zealot on the cross with Jesus repents. The forgiveness of the intentional sins was done once a year on the Day of Atonement as a picture to the final Day of Atonement for the people in the World to Come.
Also, Paul writes in Romans 2:2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who "will render to each one according to his deeds": 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
Application:
As Christians, we are very passionate about loving God and each other, but our lives have to be in submission to our Creator and King in whom we fear and respect. Through our submission, we live the way that Jesus demonstrated. We give no room for the momentary fears to dominate our choices in which lies blasphemy. Rather, only those things which give honor to God that the angels rejoice and we might not be put to shame.
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What is commonly called "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" is very much misunderstood by non-Christians (and a lot of Christians, for that matter).
There's even a website where people say, "I'm so and so and I don't believe in the Holy Spirit", and then go away all proud of themselves because they believe they've blasphemed the Holy Spirit. But simply not believing in the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
One of the roles of the Holy Spirit is to bring about conviction in the heart of a sinner, so that he might respond and be saved. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit simply means that one refuses to respond to the Holy Spirit's conviction.
Now, because there is still a chance that one can respond and repent right up until the moment of their death, it is impossible for one to commit this sin and then be born again because his being born again would mean that he never committed the sin in the first place.
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The whole reason why blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is unforgiveable is not so much because of the particular form of sin that constituted it, but more because of the utter departure of the Person, (and therefore also of the work,) of the Holy Spirit from that sinner. His or her state of sin is then unforgiveable for the simple reason that there is no reconciliation for any sinner anywhere for any sins without the precious work of this third person of the Trinity who's very assignment it is to convict and bring the lost to Christ. Loose Him and you loose all redemptive potential, even though the free offer of the gospel is still propagated on Earth.
"It is the Spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing."
In this very gloomy depiction, though, is a star of hope: By the very act of seeking the Lord for salvation with all of one's heart, a sinner is manifesting all of the qualities which wouldn't be present had the Holy Spirit abandoned him. You show me a person who is honestly willing to forsake his sins and trust in both the punitive death and preceptively righteous life of Chirst for them, and I will show you a person whom the Holy Spirit has obviously not forsaken. The fate of the devil and his reprobate angels was not so fortunate though, and this is also the most likely source for all those tormenting thoughts in a sinner's mind of being beyond hope. Seek Christ with all of one's heart and then never fear of having committed that sin, which unforgiveable state the devil and his demons are guilty of and never, ever, ever anyone clinging to the cross of Christ as their only hope.
"It is the Spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing."
In this very gloomy depiction, though, is a star of hope: By the very act of seeking the Lord for salvation with all of one's heart, a sinner is manifesting all of the qualities which wouldn't be present had the Holy Spirit abandoned him. You show me a person who is honestly willing to forsake his sins and trust in both the punitive death and preceptively righteous life of Chirst for them, and I will show you a person whom the Holy Spirit has obviously not forsaken. The fate of the devil and his reprobate angels was not so fortunate though, and this is also the most likely source for all those tormenting thoughts in a sinner's mind of being beyond hope. Seek Christ with all of one's heart and then never fear of having committed that sin, which unforgiveable state the devil and his demons are guilty of and never, ever, ever anyone clinging to the cross of Christ as their only hope.
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