Why believe in what cannot be proven?

[ebia]

Dawkins most often refuses to debate with Creationists. He knows his arguments will not hold up.

"In a December 2004 interview with Bill Moyers, Dawkins stated that "among the things that science does know, evolution is about as certain as anything we know." When Moyers later asked, "Is evolution a theory, not a fact?", Dawkins replied, "Evolution has been observed. It's just that it hasn't been observed while it's happening." Dawkins went on to say, "It is rather like a detective coming on a murder after the scene. And you… the detective hasn't actually seen the murder take place, of course. But what you do see is a massive clue ...Circumstantial evidence, but masses of circumstantial evidence. Huge quantities of circumstantial evidence."

Jesus Christ is fact, not a massive clue.

I'm not a Dawkins fan when he talks about theology, but I'm not sure what your problem is with the above. Dawkins reply is entirely appropriate; Moyer is trying to imply that a (scientific) theory is somehow not reliable, and that simply a misleading thing to imply. Theory is as strong as it gets when talking about an explanation in science.

 

[wmc1982]

I'm not a Dawkins fan when he talks about theology, but I'm not sure what your problem is with the above. Dawkins reply is entirely appropriate; Moyer is trying to imply that a (scientific) theory is somehow not reliable, and that simply a misleading thing to imply. Theory is as strong as it gets in science.

Yes, and this is why science and theory are not God. Christians have been given proof beyond theory. These people are trying to climb up a mountain Christians are already on top of. The meaning of life has been answered for years.

 

[ebia]

lol its funny how people like to compare believing in god to human thought.

It would help enormously if you quoted the post you were querying.

Please remember, you are not allowed to debate in this forum.

If thats the case than why not Zeus you cant prove him or can you? Human thought is a caused by chemicals in electric signals in the brain. You think so you know it's true, there is evidence that our senses can acquire. Oh and about the car example. Yes your car couldn't have came together out of nothing because it is not organic. The process of Evolution (the most valid theory in scientific history) is small changes to increase complexity. Read the origin of species to find out more.

Most Christians don't have a problem with the theory of evolution. Who is this intended for, and why? Please remember, this is not a debate forum.


[quote[The Universe is very old, billions of years in fact, and that is proven by a number of scientific tests.The idea that everything started with simple matter makes much more sense than a complex being such as god creating a complex universe. In that case how did god come to be? It is more sensible to say the universe is infinite and eternal than a complex being such as god.[/quote]
Umm. We know (from science) that the universe is neither infinite nor eternal.

 

[MLH1986]

lol thanks, I have to give you credit you did bring up some good points. Ive been trying christianity for about 2 months now and I(ashamed to say it) accepted jesus into my heart about a month ago. Yet still I cant make my mind accept the supernatural. I have since gone on the defensive and decided to prove his non existance through debate, but it looks like that is going nowhere. I will always be agnostic in my mind, hellbound I may be to you but at least i am honest with my thoughts and ideas just like you are defending yours.

 

[ebia]

Yes, and this is why science and theory are not God. Christians have been given proof beyond theory. These people are trying to climb up a mountain Christians are already on top of. The meaning of life has been answered for years.

You are comparing apples and aeroplanes. The two aren't talking about the same question, so one wouldn't expect the same answers. The Theory of Evolution has absolutely nothing to say about the "meaning of life". It's a discussion of the mechanics of the development of the diversity of life.

 

[wmc1982]

It would help enormously if you quoted the post you were querying.

Please remember, you are not allowed to debate in this forum.


Most Christians don't have a problem with the theory of evolution. Who is this intended for, and why? Please remember, this is not a debate forum.


[quote[The Universe is very old, billions of years in fact, and that is proven by a number of scientific tests.The idea that everything started with simple matter makes much more sense than a complex being such as god creating a complex universe. In that case how did god come to be? It is more sensible to say the universe is infinite and eternal than a complex being such as god.

Umm. We know (from science) that the universe is neither infinite nor eternal. [/QUOTE]
we also know that it is a theory that the universe is billions of years old, not fact.

Science has to be observed. Therefore, nothing can be scientifically proven, beyond a natural human life. (100 years or so) After this, it becomes history, which can be debated over and over...

 

[MLH1986]

the universe and basic matter is infinite and eternal from the law of matter. Matter cannot be created nor destroyed. So it is infinite, science says so.

 

[wmc1982]

You are comparing apples and aeroplanes. The two aren't talking about the same question, so one wouldn't expect the same answers. The Theory of Evolution has absolutely nothing to say about the "meaning of life". It's a discussion of the mechanics of the development of the diversity of life.

Yes, then why does Dawkins try to disprove Christianity if his theories have nothing to do with it?

 

[wmc1982]

lol thanks, I have to give you credit you did bring up some good points. Ive been trying christianity for about 2 months now and I(ashamed to say it) accepted jesus into my heart about a month ago. Yet still I cant make my mind accept the supernatural. I have since gone on the defensive and decided to prove his non existance through debate, but it looks like that is going nowhere. I will always be agnostic in my mind, hellbound I may be to you but at least i am honest with my thoughts and ideas just like you are defending yours.

Romans 1:16 - "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek."

 

[wmc1982]

the universe and basic matter is infinite and eternal from the law of matter. Matter cannot be created nor destroyed. So it is infinite, science says so.

So you say science is God? Science is based on predictions, not facts.

 

[ebia]

lol thanks, I have to give you credit you did bring up some good points. Ive been trying christianity for about 2 months now and I(ashamed to say it) accepted jesus into my heart about a month ago. Yet still I cant make my mind accept the supernatural. I have since gone on the defensive and decided to prove his non existance through debate, but it looks like that is going nowhere. I will always be agnostic in my mind, hellbound I may be to you but at least i am honest with my thoughts and ideas just like you are defending yours.

Part of the trouble is thinking about it as "natural" and "supernatural". That's not actually an appropriate way to think about the Judeo/Christian God. This isn't a distant God sitting away in space somewhere, occasionally tweaking things. God is both distant and different, and at the same time present and acting in every aspect of his creation. God is just as much acting in the water-into-wine miracle that is happening in the grapeblock behind my house (or will be in 6 months time) as he is inthe water-into-wine miracle that happened at Cana approx 2000 years ago.

 

[Katie7725]

no science is not god, i don't believe in the supernatural only the natural universe

 

[Katie7725]

If god created everything than who created god? If everything must have a creator than who created him huh?

 

[Katie7725]

I like debating with you, your a smart guy, ok back to debating lol.

 

[ebia]

Umm. We know (from science) that the universe is neither infinite nor eternal.

we also know that it is a theory that the universe is billions of years old, not fact.

Science has to be observed. Therefore, nothing can be scientifically proven, beyond a natural human life. (100 years or so) After this, it becomes history, which can be debated over and over...[/quote]
Science doesn't do proof. I can't prove the world wasn't created last thursday. If you want to debate the age of the universe take it to the approprate forum.

Yes, then why does Dawkins try to disprove Christianity if his theories have nothing to do with it?

Because Dawkins wants to disprove Christianity, and will try to use whatever tools Christains allow him to do it. If Christians allow him choose the modernist method the principles of the debate, and defend the deist vision of God he attacks, then he will succeed (at least in those terms).

 

[ebia]

the universe and basic matter is infinite and eternal from the law of matter. Matter cannot be created nor destroyed. So it is infinite, science says so.

You need to brush up on your science.

 

[MLH1986]

ebia maybe your right, I am soooo confused and angry right now. Ive heard all these horrible things about hell and such and I know my dad died an atheist and I want to uphold what he taught me. I cant imagine the thought of him suffering forever. I know this isnt part of our talk but it makes me sad and mad to think that he is never going to get relief. He was such a nice and loving father too.

 

[ebia]

If god created everything than who created god? If everything must have a creator than who created him huh?

Who said everything had to have a creator?

 

[wmc1982]

If god created everything than who created god? If everything must have a creator than who created him huh?

God doesn't need a creator. He is outside of His creation. He doesn't go by natural laws of life and death. Everything has to have a creator before it until you go back to an Ultimate Rational Being. You can't have an infinite regress of creation.

 

[MLH1986]

that is a law in science, maybe called something else but it is a law none the less