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Montalban said:Believing in Christ is to believe not just Christ existed, but to believe in everything He did and stood for.
Which is to believe in hell.
Of Jesus , or hell?Abbadon said:No, that just calls for acknowledging it's existance or possibility thereof.
As stated already, I believe in Jesus. In believing in Jesus I accept everything that He believes in, and that includes hell.Abbadon said:Do you believe in Hell as you believe in Jesus, or as children do in Santa Claus?
Montalban said:Of Jesus , or hell?
Montalban said:As stated already, I believe in Jesus. In believing in Jesus I accept everything that He believes in, and that includes hell.
Abbadon said:I meant hell. Shame on you for thinking otherwise of me. (shakes finger).
I've not heard of Jesus having faith in hell, I've heard Him acknowledge hell.
Does your faith in God depend on hell existing? If not, then why do you feel compelled to have faith in it? I believe there is a hell, I just don't believe in it.
Casi said:HEY! that is really not nice. i would appreciate it if you and arunma and others would stick to the topic.
Hartlandcat said:And if I may add another question...
If you believe in Hell, are you happy that Hell exists or do you wish that it didn't? Or do you have some other belief?
You'd left some doubt as to which you were talking about. I seek clarification if I don't know/understand.Abbadon said:I meant hell. Shame on you for thinking otherwise of me. (shakes finger).
So? I believe Jesus. Jesus believes in hell. I believe in hell. End of story.Abbadon said:I've not heard of Jesus having faith in hell, I've heard Him acknowledge hell.
As stated, Jesus knows it, I believe Jesus.Abbadon said:Does your faith in God depend on hell existing? If not, then why do you feel compelled to have faith in it?
This makes no sense.Abbadon said:I believe there is a hell, I just don't believe in it.
Casiopeia said:um...hun..do you mean you believe in but you don't have faith in it?
Since there are a wide variety of belief systems considered Pagan, there is also a wide variety of answers to that question.Casiopeia said:In the pagan beliefs is there anything like hell?
Sure, but it's all arguable. I'm sure the name of the Norse Goddess of the underworld being "Hel" is completely coincidental.Casiopeia said:According to a thread in the UT section of the forum, these concepts that are in Christianity are from pagan beliefs that are assimilated from the early pagan converts. Is there any truth to this?
Montalban said:You'd left some doubt as to which you were talking about. I seek clarification if I don't know/understand.
So? I believe Jesus. Jesus believes in hell. I believe in hell. End of story.
As stated, Jesus knows it, I believe Jesus.
This makes no sense.
Abbadon said:Look, do you believe in Hell, as you believe in Jesus?
I thought I'd answered you already. I believe what Jesus did and said. Jesus
believes in hell, so therefore must I.
I believe in Jesus. I have faith in Jesus. I believe Jesus is real. I believe He exists.Abbadon said:Probably not, but you believe it exists. You don't have faith in it, but you very much accept the idea that it exists. But you don't believe in the chair the same way you do Christ, do you?
Jesus taught us many things. I believe these things. I trust them to be true, EVEN IF I've not experienced them (He has told me about 'the Father' and I've never seen God the Father). I believe hell exists because Jesus' message contains a warning of hell. I've not experienced hell. I trust Jesus. Therefore BY VIRTUE it is part of Jesus (His teachings) I believe it exists.
Get it?
Montalban said:Abbadon said:Look, do you believe in Hell, as you believe in Jesus?
I thought I'd answered you already. I believe what Jesus did and said. Jesus
believes in hell, so therefore must I.
I believe in Jesus. I have faith in Jesus. I believe Jesus is real. I believe He exists.
Jesus taught us many things. I believe these things. I trust them to be true, EVEN IF I've not experienced them (He has told me about 'the Father' and I've never seen God the Father). I believe hell exists because Jesus' message contains a warning of hell. I've not experienced hell. I trust Jesus. Therefore BY VIRTUE it is part of Jesus (His teachings) I believe it exists.
Get it?
Yes, that's what I do, I just don't believe in hell the way I believe in the Holy spirit.
But how does this make you feel? FEEEEEEEEEEEL...not what you think...FEEELarunma said:[/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font]
Montalban isn't trying to be rude (at least not as far as I can tell), and he certainly isn't trying to make an antisemitic joke. He's speaking in the same spirit that I do when I make Indian jokes. I'm somewhat well known on these forums for having very little tolerance towards racist beliefs, as you can tell from my recent condemnation of Galilean's belief in Western spiritual superiority. I think it's blatently obvious that Montalban's joke was just that: a joke.
Besides this, it cannot be denied that Jewish comedians are absolutely hilarious.
I most certainly do not rejoice that people are in hell. There are many doctrines of Christianity that I don't love. But the purpose of any organized religion is for the believer to conform himself to the establishment, not for him to conform the religion to his own personal desires. There are plenty of doctrines that don't make me happy. For example, I don't rejoice that Moses and Joshua had to destroy so many Canaanite villiages in order to fulfill God's plan, or that God has ordained that not everyone will come to faith in Christ. But that doesn't take away the theological significance of these things. Ultimately, I know that God is smarter than me. If he sends unbelievers in Christ to hell, it is out of his own wisdom, and I don't presume to know more than him.
Montalban said:Abbadon said:I think you and I differ over the term 'believe in'.
I don't believe in that statement, but I do believe it, and agree with it.
Casiopeia said:To what end would one diliberately choose to believe in hell?
With the various religions represented on this forum, I would like to know what the different beliefs are. Is it called hell? Is it the same as Christianity's version of hell? What purpose does it serve to hold such beliefs?
Thanks Amy!!! that is really want I wanted to know. Very interesting post. I am going to really meditate on that because it does seem to make alot of sense to me.9Harmony said:Hi Casi,
As long as this thread is I figured you must have already gotten a response from a Baha'i, but I just looked through and didn't see one.
From a Baha'i perspective, heaven and hell are not physical places, but rather states of being. Heaven being nearness to God, and Hell being remoteness from God. Including infinite states between the two extremes.
The purpose in holding this belief to me, is that it puts the responsibility of our spiritual destination solely on our own shoulders. Our job in this life is to develop our spiritual life, striving to cultivate our lives in line with spiritual principles. There is no automatic admittance, words without deeds are of little value. Also, the purpose in holding this belief is the understanding that no one group of people has a corner on the market of heaven. Each and every person is responsible for one life only and that is their own.
In the Baha'i belief, we can only make spiritual progress of our own accord while on earth, once we die, our progress lies with the mercy of God, and in the prayers offered on our behalf. But we do not believe that hell is eternal. We believe all souls will continue to make progress until they attain the presence of God.
-Amy
Casiopeia said:But how does this make you feel? FEEEEEEEEEEEL...not what you think...FEEEL
Thank you, that is what I wanted to knowarunma said:The doctrine of hell makes me value the efficacy of Christ's blood for salvation even more, and it gives me a better understanding of why the plan of God required that Jesus die and be raised to life. It's also a profound mystery that the joy of the saints is not abated by the suffering of those who are in hell.
Casiopeia said:Thanks Amy!!! that is really want I wanted to know. Very interesting post. I am going to really meditate on that because it does seem to make alot of sense to me.
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