Why Argue?

[LewisWildermuth]

One Smelly Amoeba
Job 9:25-26
"Now my days are swifter than a runner; they flee away, they see no good. They pass by like swift ships, like an eagle swooping on its prey."
Not all dangerous predators can be seen. One of the most dangerous predators in a drop of pond water is Amoeba proteus. This amoeba literally terrorizes its one-celled pond-mates because they can smell him coming to engulf them. Among his favorite snacks are one-celled creatures of the genus Euplotes. But Euplotes can defend themselves. When some members of this genus smell the amoeba coming they dart away to safety. Others can grow pikes to defend themselves. Some can even grow hard shells to protect themselves.

This scenario leaves a problem for evolution. What benefit to a predator is there in warning it's prey? Evolution should have selected against the amoeba's ability to produce its unique scent, called the A-factor. Now a new discovery has revealed the amoeba's scent is really a clever design, pointing to a Designer.

How is this sign of a designer? What? Did God suddenly feel guilty about making this micro predator and so he made it smell bad? If he didn't like it why didn't he simply erase it?

These amoebas reproduce by splitting, so they are surrounded by clones. The A-factor is just strong enough to allow the proteus to identify clone?mates so that they don't eat each other, but not so strong that it prevents proteus from getting enough to eat.

Now you seem to be confused, first you seem to say that there is no reason for this "odor" then you say there seems to be a good one, it avoids canabalism. It also does not seem to keep the animal from getting enough to eat, so why would you expect it to dissapear? It seems to be a benificial trait over all to me.

God sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to save us from another unseen predator, the devil. The evil in the world is the warning scent of the devil's presence. God has placed many evidences within the creation that He is the Creator so that as our relatively few days on this earth flee by, we will be drawn to His Son, and, believing in Him, receive forgiveness and salvation from sin, death and the devil.
Prayer: We thank, You, dear Father, that in Your love, You sent Your Son to save me from sin, death and the devil. Amen.

Okay... This was an interesting sermon.... For Christians, yes there is evil in the world, but what does that have to do with evolution? Are you saying evolution, a theory made by Christians, is evil? How?

 

[greatcogitator]

I debate because it gives me a chance to test my logic that I have used, if I'm wrong someone will inevitably point it out, allowing me to busy myself yet again. (It's really hard to keep busy on a campus where the in thing is getting drunk on a Saturday morning)

 

[Mike Flynn]

yes but if you associate ignorance on a universal level we are all ignorant, some more than others. But just because you tell someone about something doesent mean they are going to believe it.

Yes, but maybe the point isn't to convince each other to believe anything....thats not necessarily the measure of a successful debate.

The Bible says that there are 'none who understand'. And yet, Jesus tries to reach people, in part, through human understanding and reasoning. A contradiction? I don't think so. Its clear that scriptures indicate that human understanding can be a blessing...but we need to remember that no-one understands everything (and so we shouldn't lean on it as a *foundation* of faith...you always lean on God's grace for faith).

It is possible, then, to connect with the truth (Biblical truth) through understanding (and in debates and arguments) and there are those that have been given this gift. If God works through people in discussions like these then that truth can spread out into the world. We may not recognize God's hand in our arguments, but at times its there, whether we realize it or not.

Look at the fruit: many arguments are wasted and cause division, anger, even bloodshed, etc. However, sometimes arguments bear good fruit, even if we don't recognize it as such (often the value of a debate is only seen in retrospect for example). According to Christian theology, good fruit (even from what starts as a heated disagreement) is evidence of the hand of God in the process.

 

[lucaspa]

This scenario leaves a problem for evolution. What benefit to a predator is there in warning it's prey? Evolution should have selected against the amoeba's ability to produce its unique scent, called the A-factor. Now a new discovery has revealed the amoeba's scent is really a clever design, pointing to a Designer. These amoebas reproduce by splitting, so they are surrounded by clones. The A-factor is just strong enough to allow the proteus to identify clone?mates so that they don't eat each other, but not so strong that it prevents proteus from getting enough to eat.

You just provided a way for the scent of the amoeba to evolve, after saying it was a problem for evolution! Thanks for "solving" that "problem".

In this case, preventing amoebas from eating their clones preserves more genes for the next generation. And that is what natural selection is all about: putting more genes into the next generation. Or, put another way, differential reproductive success. Notice how well natural selection has balanced the strength of the smell: too little and you eat your clone-mates, too strong and you drive off too much prey and starve.

Natural selection is a pretty clever Designer, isn't it?

God has placed many evidences within the creation that He is the Creator so that as our relatively few days on this earth flee by, we will be drawn to His Son, and, believing in Him, receive forgiveness and salvation from sin, death and the devil.

OK, so what exactly are the evidences that you speak of?

Prayer: We thank, You, dear Father, that in Your love, You sent Your Son to save me from sin, death and the devil. Amen.

Nice prayer. Now please explain to us how this prayer has any less meaning or is any less accurate because we evolved from ape-like ancestors.

 

[PhantomLlama]

One Smelly Amoeba
Job 9:25-26
"Now my days are swifter than a runner; they flee away, they see no good. They pass by like swift ships, like an eagle swooping on its prey."
Not all dangerous predators can be seen. One of the most dangerous predators in a drop of pond water is Amoeba proteus. This amoeba literally terrorizes its one-celled pond-mates because they can smell him coming to engulf them. Among his favorite snacks are one-celled creatures of the genus Euplotes. But Euplotes can defend themselves. When some members of this genus smell the amoeba coming they dart away to safety. Others can grow pikes to defend themselves. Some can even grow hard shells to protect themselves.

This scenario leaves a problem for evolution. What benefit to a predator is there in warning it's prey? Evolution should have selected against the amoeba's ability to produce its unique scent, called the A-factor. Now a new discovery has revealed the amoeba's scent is really a clever design, pointing to a Designer. These amoebas reproduce by splitting, so they are surrounded by clones. The A-factor is just strong enough to allow the proteus to identify clone?mates so that they don't eat each other, but not so strong that it prevents proteus from getting enough to eat.

God sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to save us from another unseen predator, the devil. The evil in the world is the warning scent of the devil's presence. God has placed many evidences within the creation that He is the Creator so that as our relatively few days on this earth flee by, we will be drawn to His Son, and, believing in Him, receive forgiveness and salvation from sin, death and the devil.
Prayer: We thank, You, dear Father, that in Your love, You sent Your Son to save me from sin, death and the devil. Amen.

Breaking all previous YEC speed records, Chilli_Pepper's point was falsified before he even finished typing his post!

 

[Bushido216]

Who edited my post?

 

[Bushido216]

I'm really curious now ya know.