Why are we so unkind?

[Pogue]

Dear Pogue,

.........And I am loving them by obeying the Word and our charge as stewards and I am loving strangers who may read these posts, and might stumble and fall into a trap that do not know the Word of Truth and may believe false doctrine, heresy or words of apostacy by those who post them in the name of Jesus.

"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." 2 Timothy 4:2-4




You agreed that Paul was doing right and did not break the Second Commandment in 1 Corinthians Chapter 5.

So, why are you continuing to condemn what I'm saying, and the Word of God that I am sharing and making a false judgment of my ministry and intent claiming that I have not love for them, but what Paul has said in his ministry, you say you 'have no doubt that he was loving them' while commanding that they be 'thrown out of the Church, turned over to satan and charged the members to not even eat with them as they are wicked'?.

I'm not condemning everything you're saying- I agree with some of it, in fact. I disagreed with you when you said that the Bible does not call us to love those who mock us. That was all.
It's not for me to say whether you love those you condemn- how could I possibly know whether you do? But I'm not saying that you don't love them. You can love somebody and acknowledge their sin, at the same time.

I don't believe you are being sincere when you say you wouldn't condemn Paul for what he preached.

Well, you've got a right to question my sincerity if you wish. However, I didn't say I wouldn't condemn Paul for what he preached- I said that he could have said what he did, and still love those he was preaching to.

Here is what Paul said again, so you don't have to turn back between that page and this one.

1 Corinthians Chapter 5

"It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."

I've read it three or four times now, but I can't see where it says that we should not love. You can, and probably should, distance yourself from evil if there's a chance that you're going to be taken in by it. But Jesus himself did not seperate Himself from the sinners. He spent time with them and ate with them. As the Bible commands me to love, that's what I will do.
Hatred stirs up dissension, but love covers over all wrongs.(Proverbs 10-12)

 

[UberLutheran]

Out of all of this....................

.........all you got out of it is part of my first sentence?
The Scripture you quoted is great, in its context. You have to understand that the parable Jesus used was directly speaking to the times. Jews were not allowed to talk to Samaritans. Jesus was trying to teach them that salvation has now come to all who will come, and that if we see anyone in need, we are not to withhold anything in our power to give to them, from them.

Jesus in NO WAY, meant for that Scripture to be used to condone and tolerate lovers and promoters of iniquity, scoffers, mockers and haters of truth.

The FIRST COMMANDMENT is to LOVE THE LORD GOD, with all of your mind, soul and strength, which SUPERCEDES everything else.

I have lots of compassion and the love of the Lord for those who are struggling and are repentant. I have the love of the Lord for the lost. But I do not have tolerance, nor does the Lord for liars, the scornful, proud blasphemous promoters of iniquity, lawless, false teachers, lust filled twisters of His Truth, because having the spirit of God, I have indignation as we ought, according to the Lord.

The Love of God, and the worldly kind of love are two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT things.

The world's love sends people to hell in handbaskets, teaching them the paths of destruction, withholding the truth from them, by replacing it with lies. God's love is TRUTH, which may be offensive to the flesh but has the POWER to snatch a soul from the fiery pit of hell.

It's exactly because of this kind of spurious, hypocritical "love" you just described that I left the SBC when I was 15 — and have never looked back.

And you know something — had I been heterosexual, I would still have left the SBC after seeing what their "love" did to some people I knew (including a Jewish mayoral candidate in my city, who was smeared (in a "loving" way, of course!) by the conservative evangelical community).

You know what the interesting thing is, IamRedeemed? According to my SBC/Assembly of God/Church of Christ extended family of origin, I'm no longer going to Hell because I'm gay.

According to them, I'm going to Hell because I'm a LUTHERAN — because we read our prayers out of a book and drink WINE during Communion!

 

[ReformedChapin]

It's exactly because of this kind of spurious, hypocritical "love" you just described that I left the SBC when I was 15 — and have never looked back.

And you know something — had I been heterosexual, I would still have left the SBC after seeing what their "love" did to some people I knew (including a Jewish mayoral candidate in my city, who was smeared (in a "loving" way, of course!) by the conservative evangelical community).

You know what the interesting thing is, IamRedeemed? According to my SBC/Assembly of God/Church of Christ extended family of origin, I'm no longer going to Hell because I'm gay.

According to them, I'm going to Hell because I'm a LUTHERAN — because we read our prayers out of a book and drink WINE during Communion!

You mind providing a source for this claim?

 

[calvins96]

I am sorry to hear about your friend. My sympathy to you and his family and other friends.................................................................



As far as this forum goes, the reason for the firmness is that the people here claim to be Christian, but yet spit on the Word of God and laugh as well as scoff at the idea of demonic strongholds, even though the Bible is clear about both.

Again, I will ask that you please stop with the personal attacks and the comments regarding those that "claim" to be christian. You, my dear CLAIM to be christian as well, but your posts are riddled with such hate speach. Speaking of "spitting on the word of God"..you need to start taking some of your own advice. "Demonic Strongholds"...read some of your posts...it's amazing what evil can do to someone.
What YOU believe the bible to tell you is just that...YOUR take on things. It is NOT what EVERYONE takes as the truth. Many Christians that are tolerant and accepting, and compassionate will read your posts and be enraged with what you say. Me being just one of them. Not everyone is a fanatic like you, and you need to know that. You perhaps should look for some "deliverance" from that.

They mock the idea of repentance and deliverance.
The mocking of any "deliverance" here is the mocking of the person who makes such a claim, when clearly it is being done for their own PERSONAL hate of something. What gives you the "power" to deliver anyone? I'll work with God and my personal relationship with him to be delivered from that which I think I need deliverance from.

Everyone else (other than them, they even have a new doctrine that says that they are "special" unlike any other sinner and repenting is not required of them) is subject to obey God and His Word and if they are living a lifestyle contrary to His Word, are expected to repent and if they have a stronghold (beyond your own willpower no matter how hard you try even if you do agree it is wrong), there is deliverance available through the power of the Holy Spirit accessible through and by the name of Jesus Christ that they deny and teach others to do the same.
Your sarcasm is not warrented. Also, as you say, if anyone is in need of delieverance..they will know. You need not represent the Holy Spirit to get it.

We realize that some people feel they were born that way and they can't help it.

Of course you taking on the role of "god" you know what one "feels" rather than "knows". See if you allowed yourself to realize sexuality is out of one's control, then you'd be out of a job as a "deliverance" person. Then what would you do? Have to admit that what you do is in vain? God forbid. You realize nothing because you speak of what you do not know. Nothing is worse than that.

Some may have been born with a curse because one of their parents engaged in deviate sex, that is quite possible,

Ok, so now there are 'curses' involved. This is really rich. Basically ANYTHING to support your belief..ie. change, curse, choice,etc... You really should start challenging yourself and begin reading. It's never too late.

there are a number of reasons or entrances possible, but as many also that claim they feel they were born that way, there is also an overwhelming majority that know at what point they began having deviate thoughts, and the overwhelming majority also have deep seated mental and/or emotional issues, that stem from either sexual abuse, emotional abuse and trauma or both.
Reading this from you is no different than calling the psychic hotline to get their opinions. Again, your comments are beyond offensive. "overwhelming" basically is your term to covering what YOU think, and those of the same beliefs that you surround yourself with. You can say what you want, but i doubt very much you let anyone into your circle of friends that is even remotely different than you. What you state above is so inaccurate, and so incorrect, and flat out wrong, that you shouldn't even be allowed to post such false truths. What is very sad to me is it is probably what you use to those you have sucked in to your preaching. Very scare, and somewhat abusive. I have stated on here before...I am a youth minister for gay christians. the OVERWHELMING majority have had NO ABUSE in their lives other than coming from fundamentalist parents that have caused them harm with their actions. So yeah, I guess you may be sorta right there when you say coming from "abusive families". The 28 people in my group come from great families with no abuse whatsoever, however, there are a handful that are victims of spiritual abuse..something you seem to be greatly trained in.

There is no "gay gene" No, scientific evidence to back any claims which makes perfect sense that there never will be, as it was never part of the plan God had when He created us.
What you mean here is there will NEVER be ANY evidence that will change your mind, simply b/c it will show that your "delivery" message is false. For you to admit that just isn't a part of the fantasy inwhich you live in.

Male first and a female counterpart to perfectly suit him in every way, not just physically, however the physical aspect is hands down a triumphant visible, undeniable proof of that.

I see by your profile you have children. I can only imagine the pressure on them to be mini-gods for you, and in the event one would be gay...their mom is the last person they would feel they can come to, when in fact, you should be the FIRST one they come to. It is that child that is so overwhelmed with guilt, depression, confusion, anxiety, etc...that is a victim here..and they don't have a mom to turn to when they would need her the most. Therefore, thankfully through other ministries they would be able to get the help that their families can not give them. I see that WORKING everyday. I wonder what you would even do with one of your children should they tell you they were gay? the thought terrifies me. I'm sure you would say "I'd continue to love them", but yet there is no love in your heart based on your postings, so not sure I would beliee what you say. I'm a firm believer in actions speaking louder than words, and you are hell bent on changing people to your satisfaction.

 

[ReformedChapin]

I see by your profile you have children. I can only imagine the pressure on them to be mini-gods for you, and in the event one would be gay...their mom is the last person they would feel they can come to, when in fact, you should be the FIRST one they come to. It is that child that is so overwhelmed with guilt, depression, confusion, anxiety, etc...that is a victim here..and they don't have a mom to turn to when they would need her the most. Therefore, thankfully through other ministries they would be able to get the help that their families can not give them. I see that WORKING everyday. I wonder what you would even do with one of your children should they tell you they were gay? the thought terrifies me. I'm sure you would say "I'd continue to love them", but yet there is no love in your heart based on your postings, so not sure I would beliee what you say. I'm a firm believer in actions speaking louder than words, and you are hell bent on changing people to your satisfaction.

Useless rhetoric....