Why are we so unkind?

[yesjesusyes]

It's so sad what happened last year. At my school a friend of mine killed himself, because he realised he was homosexual. It is my fault too, because I knew about it and I ignored him, because I just didn't want to know or be involved whatsoever. I don't think he had anyone to talk to. At my school if someone finds out you are gay you get bullied and harrased every day, even if it's only suspected and probably not true. My friend was depressed for a long time, because after realising he liked boys and not girls, he was so upset. He tried to pretend he was normal, but I guess he couldn't face a world where he would be hated so much everywhere he would go, so he killed himself, because he didn't want to be gay. For him, homosexuality definitely wasn't a choice, he just wanted to be normal and fit in like everyone else, but he just couldn't so he decided to end what would be a painful life right there instead of being hated for being what he was.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

It's sad but common, and anyone who thinks homosexuals choose that is either terribly uninformed for ignorant.

 

[IamRedeemed]

I am sorry to hear about your friend. My sympathy to you and his family and other friends.................................................................



As far as this forum goes, the reason for the firmness is that the people here claim to be Christian, but yet spit on the Word of God and laugh as well as scoff at the idea of demonic strongholds, even though the Bible is clear about both. They mock the idea of repentance and deliverance. Everyone else (other than them, they even have a new doctrine that says that they are "special" unlike any other sinner and repenting is not required of them) is subject to obey God and His Word and if they are living a lifestyle contrary to His Word, are expected to repent and if they have a stronghold (beyond your own willpower no matter how hard you try even if you do agree it is wrong), there is deliverance available through the power of the Holy Spirit accessible through and by the name of Jesus Christ that they deny and teach others to do the same.

We realize that some people feel they were born that way and they can't help it. Some may have been born with a curse because one of their parents engaged in deviate sex, that is quite possible, there are a number of reasons or entrances possible, but as many also that claim they feel they were born that way, there is also an overwhelming majority that know at what point they began having deviate thoughts, and the overwhelming majority also have deep seated mental and/or emotional issues, that stem from either sexual abuse, emotional abuse and trauma or both.

There is no "gay gene" No, scientific evidence to back any claims which makes perfect sense that there never will be, as it was never part of the plan God had when He created us. Male first and a female counterpart to perfectly suit him in every way, not just physically, however the physical aspect is hands down a triumphant visible, undeniable proof of that.

It's so sad what happened last year. At my school a friend of mine killed himself, because he realised he was homosexual. It is my fault too, because I knew about it and I ignored him, because I just didn't want to know or be involved whatsoever. I don't think he had anyone to talk to. At my school if someone finds out you are gay you get bullied and harrased every day, even if it's only suspected and probably not true. My friend was depressed for a long time, because after realising he liked boys and not girls, he was so upset. He tried to pretend he was normal, but I guess he couldn't face a world where he would be hated so much everywhere he would go, so he killed himself, because he didn't want to be gay. For him, homosexuality definitely wasn't a choice, he just wanted to be normal and fit in like everyone else, but he just couldn't so he decided to end what would be a painful life right there instead of being hated for being what he was.

 

[Pogue]

I'm so sorry. If people were just more loving, instead of condemning other people all the time, we would live in a happier world.

 

[BradC]

I'm so sorry. If people were just more loving, instead of condemning other people all the time, we would live in a happier world.

I agree Pogue. Love the sinner not the sin!

 

[Brieuse]

It's so sad what happened last year. At my school a friend of mine killed himself, because he realised he was homosexual. It is my fault too, because I knew about it and I ignored him, because I just didn't want to know or be involved whatsoever. I don't think he had anyone to talk to. At my school if someone finds out you are gay you get bullied and harrased every day, even if it's only suspected and probably not true. My friend was depressed for a long time, because after realising he liked boys and not girls, he was so upset. He tried to pretend he was normal, but I guess he couldn't face a world where he would be hated so much everywhere he would go, so he killed himself, because he didn't want to be gay. For him, homosexuality definitely wasn't a choice, he just wanted to be normal and fit in like everyone else, but he just couldn't so he decided to end what would be a painful life right there instead of being hated for being what he was.

Well, sadly in that case, he wasn't really a friend of yours. Friends don't ignore friends.

 

[MrPirate]

I am sorry to hear about your friend. My sympathy to you and his family and other friends.................................................................

You say this yet you spread and glorify the very prejudice that led to his suicide.

As far as this forum goes, the reason for the firmness is that the people here claim to be Christian, but yet spit on the Word of God and laugh as well as scoff at the idea of demonic strongholds, even though the Bible is clear about both. They mock the idea of repentance and deliverance. Everyone else (other than them, they even have a new doctrine that says that they are "special" unlike any other sinner and repenting is not required of them) is subject to obey God and His Word and if they are living a lifestyle contrary to His Word, are expected to repent and if they have a stronghold (beyond your own willpower no matter how hard you try even if you do agree it is wrong), there is deliverance available through the power of the Holy Spirit accessible through and by the name of Jesus Christ that they deny and teach others to do the same.

Hatred of people because they are different is against God’s word…yet you have no trouble engaging in such behavior.

We realize that some people feel they were born that way and they can't help it. Some may have been born with a curse because one of their parents engaged in deviate sex, that is quite possible,

What a sick and hatful thing to say. you say God is loving yet somehow you claim he “curses” children for something their parents did.

there are a number of reasons or entrances possible, but as many also that claim they feel they were born that way, there is also an overwhelming majority that know at what point they began having deviate thoughts, and the overwhelming majority also have deep seated mental and/or emotional issues, that stem from either sexual abuse, emotional abuse and trauma or both.

and can you actually back any of these claims?

There is no "gay gene" No, scientific evidence to back any claims which makes perfect sense that there never will be, as it was never part of the plan God had when He created us. Male first and a female counterpart to perfectly suit him in every way, not just physically, however the physical aspect is hands down a triumphant visible, undeniable proof of that.

untrue. Thousands of studies indicate that sexual oriention is inborn.


There is no evidence however to show homosexuality is the result of choice or sexual trauma or how one was raised or a “curse” or any other social or familial trait.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

I am sorry to hear about your friend. My sympathy to you and his family and other friends.................................................................



As far as this forum goes, the reason for the firmness is that the people here claim to be Christian, but yet spit on the Word of God and laugh as well as scoff at the idea of demonic strongholds, even though the Bible is clear about both. They mock the idea of repentance and deliverance. Everyone else (other than them, they even have a new doctrine that says that they are "special" unlike any other sinner and repenting is not required of them) is subject to obey God and His Word and if they are living a lifestyle contrary to His Word, are expected to repent and if they have a stronghold (beyond your own willpower no matter how hard you try even if you do agree it is wrong), there is deliverance available through the power of the Holy Spirit accessible through and by the name of Jesus Christ that they deny and teach others to do the same.

We realize that some people feel they were born that way and they can't help it. Some may have been born with a curse because one of their parents engaged in deviate sex, that is quite possible, there are a number of reasons or entrances possible, but as many also that claim they feel they were born that way, there is also an overwhelming majority that know at what point they began having deviate thoughts, and the overwhelming majority also have deep seated mental and/or emotional issues, that stem from either sexual abuse, emotional abuse and trauma or both.

There is no "gay gene" No, scientific evidence to back any claims which makes perfect sense that there never will be, as it was never part of the plan God had when He created us. Male first and a female counterpart to perfectly suit him in every way, not just physically, however the physical aspect is hands down a triumphant visible, undeniable proof of that.

This is a pretty sick and twisted unsubstaniated hypothesis, if ever i saw one. Have you no shame ?

We realize that some people feel they were born that way and they can't help it. Some may have been born with a curse because one of their parents engaged in deviate sex

you now accuse gay persons parents of being deviants ?

 

[R3quiem]

I'm really sorry to hear what happened. I know you must feel guilty, hopefully time will help.

I will pray for him tonight.

 

[DMagoh]

It's so sad what happened last year. At my school a friend of mine killed himself, because he realised he was homosexual...

What kind of school do you go to? I see that you are 28 years old. Was he also?

 

[IamRedeemed]

The Bible doesn't tell us to love the haters of God, the scoffers, scorners and the mockers. We are to pray for them, but not withhold the truth from them. The Word says to "Stand and be counted".
We are to be salt and light to the world, not lovers of it. The people we are speaking to in this forum claim to be Christians (followers of Christ) therefore there is a holy and sanctified expectation of the Lord on those who bear His name. This discussion should not even be taking place amongst those who claim His name.

Friends of the world are enemies of God.
(James 4:4)

Oh, the joys of those who do not follow the advice of the wicked, or stand around with sinners, or join in with mockers. Psalm 1:1 NLT

How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? Proverbs 1:22 KJV

Punishment is made for mockers, and the backs of fools are made to be beaten.
Proverbs 19:29 NLT

The KJV says it this way:
Judgments are prepared for scorners, and stripes for the back of fools. Proverbs 19:29 KJV

Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth. Isaiah 28:22 KJV

I sat not in the assembly of the mockers, nor rejoiced; I sat alone because of thy hand: for thou hast filled me with indignation.
Jeremiah 15:17 KJV

But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. Jude 1:17-19 KJV

To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. Acts 26:18 KJV

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 KJV (er...that means CHANGED!) If you are still the same, still living a sinful lifestyle and mock the Word of God, and are not a lover of His will and ways, there is something wrong with your testimony!

Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 2 Timothy 4:2-4 KJV

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. Proverbs 1:7 KJV

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 2 Timothy 3:1-5 KJV


And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Luke 6:46 KJV

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:21-23 KJV


Definition of Iniquity:

1. Gross immorality or injustice; wickedness.
2. A grossly immoral act; a sin.

I agree Pogue. Love the sinner not the sin!

 

[brightmorningstar]

Dear yesJesusyes,
Well I am very sorry to hear of this tragedy. I would however point out that suicides occur for all kinds of reasons. As a Christian of course I believe what this young person, like every other suicide needs is Christ in their lives, to know that God so loved them that Jesus died for them, for them to know there is no difference between them and their sin and anyone and everyone else and their sins.
In the meantime its a pity Christians werent around to love and accept this person as God's creation.

 

[Pogue]

The Bible doesn't tell us to love the haters of God, the scoffers, scorners and the mockers.

(Matthew 5:43 KJV) Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
(Matthew 5:44 KJV) But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
(Matthew 22:37 KJV) Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
(Matthew 22:38 KJV) This is the first and great commandment.
(Matthew 22:39 KJV) And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
(Matthew 22:40 KJV) On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Even if you think that homosexuality is a sin, can you not at least try and love homosexuals? Because it seems as though that's what the Bible is telling us to do.

 

[IamRedeemed]

Out of all of this....................

The Bible doesn't tell us to love the haters of God, the scoffers, scorners and the mockers. We are to pray for them, but not withhold the truth from them. The Word says to "Stand and be counted".
We are to be salt and light to the world, not lovers of it. The people we are speaking to in this forum claim to be Christians (followers of Christ) therefore there is a holy and sanctified expectation of the Lord on those who bear His name. This discussion should not even be taking place amongst those who claim His name.

Friends of the world are enemies of God.
(James 4:4)

Oh, the joys of those who do not follow the advice of the wicked, or stand around with sinners, or join in with mockers. Psalm 1:1 NLT

How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? Proverbs 1:22 KJV

Punishment is made for mockers, and the backs of fools are made to be beaten.
Proverbs 19:29 NLT

The KJV says it this way:
Judgments are prepared for scorners, and stripes for the back of fools. Proverbs 19:29 KJV

Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth. Isaiah 28:22 KJV

I sat not in the assembly of the mockers, nor rejoiced; I sat alone because of thy hand: for thou hast filled me with indignation.
Jeremiah 15:17 KJV

But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. Jude 1:17-19 KJV

To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. Acts 26:18 KJV

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 KJV (er...that means CHANGED!) If you are still the same, still living a sinful lifestyle and mock the Word of God, and are not a lover of His will and ways, there is something wrong with your testimony!

Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 2 Timothy 4:2-4 KJV

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. Proverbs 1:7 KJV

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 2 Timothy 3:1-5 KJV


And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Luke 6:46 KJV

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:21-23 KJV

Definition of Iniquity:

1. Gross immorality or injustice; wickedness.
2. A grossly immoral act; a sin.

.........all you got out of it is part of my first sentence?
The Scripture you quoted is great, in its context. You have to understand that the parable Jesus used was directly speaking to the times. Jews were not allowed to talk to Samaritans. Jesus was trying to teach them that salvation has now come to all who will come, and that if we see anyone in need, we are not to withhold anything in our power to give to them, from them.

Jesus in NO WAY, meant for that Scripture to be used to condone and tolerate lovers and promoters of iniquity, scoffers, mockers and haters of truth.

The FIRST COMMANDMENT is to LOVE THE LORD GOD, with all of your mind, soul and strength, which SUPERCEDES everything else.

I have lots of compassion and the love of the Lord for those who are struggling and are repentant. I have the love of the Lord for the lost. But I do not have tolerance, nor does the Lord for liars, the scornful, proud blasphemous promoters of iniquity, lawless, false teachers, lust filled twisters of His Truth, because having the spirit of God, I have indignation as we ought, according to the Lord.

The Love of God, and the worldly kind of love are two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT things.

The world's love sends people to hell in handbaskets, teaching them the paths of destruction, withholding the truth from them, by replacing it with lies. God's love is TRUTH, which may be offensive to the flesh but has the POWER to snatch a soul from the fiery pit of hell.

(Matthew 5:43 KJV) Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
(Matthew 5:44 KJV) But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
(Matthew 22:37 KJV) Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
(Matthew 22:38 KJV) This is the first and great commandment.
(Matthew 22:39 KJV) And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
(Matthew 22:40 KJV) On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Even if you think that homosexuality is a sin, can you not at least try and love homosexuals? Because it seems as though that's what the Bible is telling us to do.

 

[Pogue]

Out of all of this....................

.........all you got out of it is part of my first sentence?

I did read the rest, but as soon as I read your first sentence, the verse I quoted came to mind.

The Scripture you quoted is great, in its context. You have to understand that the parable Jesus used was directly speaking to the times. Jews were not allowed to talk to Samaritans. Jesus was trying to teach them that salvation has now come to all who will come, and that if we see anyone in need, we are not to withhold anything in our power to give to them, from them.

Jesus in NO WAY, meant for that Scripture to be used to condone and tolerate lovers and promoters of iniquity, scoffers, mockers and haters of truth.

I'm sorry, but I cannot see how that's the case. Maybe you shouldn't tolerate or condone those who mock you, but you should love them. The Bible tells us to love our enemies.You can do that wtithout necessarily condoning their behaviour.

The FIRST COMMANDMENT is to LOVE THE LORD GOD, with all of your mind, soul and strength, which SUPERCEDES everything else.

I agree, but this doesn't mean we should disregard the second commandment. If we love the Lord, we will also love all his people. That's why the Bible says that the second commandment is 'like unto' the first. They're very much connected. You can't have the first without the second.

I have lots of compassion and the love of the Lord for those who are struggling and are repentant. I have the love of the Lord for the lost. But I do not have tolerance, nor does the Lord for liars, the scornful, proud blasphemous promoters of iniquity, lawless, false teachers, lust filled twisters of His Truth, because having the spirit of God, I have indignation as we ought, according to the Lord.

Fair enough, but can you have indignation and love at the same time? I think that it's possible that you can, and should, love everyone, unrepentant sinners or not. You can love someone without agreeing with what they do.

The Love of God, and the worldly kind of love are two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT things.

The world's love sends people to hell in handbaskets, teaching them the paths of destruction, withholding the truth from them. God's love is TRUTH, which may be offensive to the flesh but has the POWER to snatch a soul from the fiery pit of hell.

There are many different kinds of wordly love; perhaps not all of them are good. But for the most part, I think they are. If wordly love was something which condemning us, why would God command us to love our neighbour?

 

[SpiritDriven]

In the presence of God, the worst of enemies, jump for joy and Love each other.....

They just cannot help themselves.....the Love emanating from God overwhelms absolutley everything, like a very large Tidal wave that smashes into a beach and carries all before it as it washes inland.

Peace

 

[brightmorningstar]

I think the Bible does tell us to love those who hate God.

As to why we are supoosedly so unkind, who is 'we'?
Apart from individuals, the church itself isnt unkind to anyone, in the case of homosexuals it fully accepts homosexuals, it just cant of course accept same-sex sex and lifestyle which is a sin. If that is what is meant by unkind then thats wrong because no-one is forcing anyone to accept the gospel, it is a choice, the only thing that can't be changed is the gospel, thats the historic apostolic faith once delivered, and always will be.

 

[IamRedeemed]

[/size]

I did read the rest, but as soon as I read your first sentence, the verse I quoted came to mind.

Yes, of course it did, it was a knee jerk response and a Scripture that is used here often to attempt to dismantle the rest of God's Word so that sin may abound.


I'm sorry, but I cannot see how that's the case. Maybe you shouldn't tolerate or condone those who mock you, but you should love them. The Bible tells us to love our enemies.You can do that wtithout necessarily condoning their behaviour.

They aren't mocking ME, this isn't even about me. This is about those who claim to belong to Christ, in a Christian forum promoting what God has called abominable, making a mockery and making profane Christ crucified, mocking and scoffing at the Word of God, wearing His name, and at the same time blaspheme Him and trample the Son of God under their feet, making for themselves a new doctrine, and an image of God in their own minds that they can live with, rather than conforming to His will and His ways and teaching others to do the same.

If any of them were on the side of the road, I would help them. If any of them needed clothing, I would help them. If they wanted prayer, I would pray for them. If they needed a hug, I would hug them. If they needed a meal or were on the street and it were in my power to lend assistance, there isn't a thing in the world that would stop me from doing so.

Their behavior in all of the above mentioned things IS what I am not tolerating, and will not, and as a child of God and a minister of His Word, I am charged not to, and so are you.

We do not disregard the second commandment but we do not dispose of the first to promote a perverted version of the second.

Again, God's love is a different definition than the one attempting to be ascribed to the Second Commandment. Read the other Scriptures I posted.

I agree, but this doesn't mean we should disregard the second commandment. If we love the Lord, we will also love all his people. That's why the Bible says that the second commandment is 'like unto' the first. They're very much connected. You can't have the first without the second.

Fair enough, but can you have indignation and love at the same time? I think that it's possible that you can, and should, love everyone, unrepentant sinners or not. You can love someone without agreeing with what they do.

There are many different kinds of wordly love; perhaps not all of them are good. But for the most part, I think they are. If wordly love was something which condemning us, why would God command us to love our neighbour?

Read this from Paul about fornicators and others involved in sexual sin in the Church that was actually WORSE than that found among the heathen. Are they counted as brethren?

Tell me, do you think that Paul was breaking the second commandment when he, by inspiration of the Holy Spirit said to turn those people over to satan, and to put away from them that wicked person?

1 Corinthians Chapter 5

It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.


No, he actually was keeping both commandments, as I am. You are just confusing God's love and worldly love. They are not the same. And God NEVER told us to be quiet while the lawless run amok in His name, teaching to others the ways of destruction, in the name of Jesus, so that they will deceive many. That is not what was meant by the second commandment.

The world's love will LULL people into hell, while God's TRUTH (which the world might call tough love, which is for those who claim to be "within" but live as though they are "without") has the POWER to snatch a soul from their hell bound destruction.

Those who have been told the truth may still choose not to hear it and continue in the path of destruction, but it won't be for lack of knowledge of the Truth.

You and others keep seeming to forget we are not on a gay website. This is a "Christian Forum" where those who claim they are "Christians" are actively promoting a particular sin in the name of Jesus, and not even a "sin" per se' but a lifestyle of sin.

THAT is the difference, and THAT is what the problem is.

 

[Pogue]

Yes, of course it did, it was a knee jerk response and a Scripture that is used here often to attempt to dismantle the rest of God's Word so that sin may abound.

It wasn't a knee-jerk response. I read your post, and remembered a verse which seemed to refute one of your sentences. No malice here. You said something, I disagreed with it, I posted Bible verses to back up why I disagreed with it. I'm not trying to 'dismantle the rest of God's Word'. That seems illogical- how can you dismantle God's Word by quoting God's Word?

They aren't mocking ME, this isn't even about me.

I meant a general 'you', rather than you personally.

This is about those who claim to belong to Christ, in a Christian forum promoting what God has called abominable, making a mockery and making profane Christ crucified, mocking and scoffing at the Word of God, wearing His name, and at the same time blaspheme Him and trample the Son of God under their feet, making for themselves a new doctrine, and an image of God in their own minds that they can live with, rather than conforming to His will and His ways and teaching others to do the same.

People do wrong. But do you love them?

If any of them were on the side of the road, I would help them. If any of them needed clothing, I would help them. If they wanted prayer, I would pray for them. If they needed a hug, I would hug them. If they needed a meal or were on the street and it were in my power to lend assistance, there isn't a thing in the world that would stop me from doing so.

Well, that's good, and I applaud and respect that. What I was specifically objecting to was your assertion that we are not commanded to love those who mock us, and who we perceive as our enemies.

Their behavior in all of the above mentioned things IS what I am not tolerating, and will not, and as a child of God and a minister of His Word, I am charged not to, and so are you.

I won't tolerate what I believe is wrong, but I will try my best to love those who do wrong. You can love somebody but not tolerate what they do.

We do not disregard the second commandment but we do not dispose of the first to promote a perverted version of the second.

We shouldn't disregard either of them, because each of them cannot exist without the other.

Again, God's love is a different definition that the one attempting to be ascribed to the Second Commandment. Read the other Scriptures I posted.

Read this from Paul about fornicators and others involved in sexual sin in the Church that was actually WORSE than that found among the heathen.

Tell me, do you think that Paul was breaking the second commandment when he, by inspiration of the Holy Spirit said to turn those people over to satan, and to put away from them that wicked person?

1 Corinthians Chapter 5

It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.


No, he actually was keeping both commandments, as I am. You are just confusing God's love and worldly love. They are not the same. And God NEVER told us to be quiet while the lawless run amok in His name, teaching to others the ways of destruction, in the name of Jesus, so that they will deceive many. That is not what was meant by the second commandment.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't speak out against wrongdoing- not at all. Quite the opposite, in fact. But you can love somebody while criticising their behaviour. I have no doubt that Paul did love the people he was speaking out against, and was not breaking any commandments.

The world's love will LULL people into hell, while God's TRUTH (which the world might call tough love) has the POWER to snatch a soul from their hell bound destruction.

But God's love is the source of all human love. Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth. We are called to be like God, who loves us unconditionally. We should therefore do our best to love our neighbour. No, this does not mean that we have to approve of everything they do, nor does it mean that we have to keep silent if we disapprove of their actions. 'Worldy love' is not perfect, because people are not perfect, but it does not lure or lull people to hell. Are a loving, heterosexual married couple going to go to hell because they love eachother?

Those who have been told the truth may still choose not to hear it and continue in the path of destruction, but it won't be for lack of knowledge of the Truth.

You and others keep seeming to forget we are not on a gay website. This is a "Christian Forum" where those who claim they are "Christians" are actively promoting a particular sin in the name of Jesus, and not even a "sin" per se' but a lifestyle of sin.

THAT is the difference, and THAT is what the problem is.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'gay website'. This is a site which has gay members, some of whom are Christians, and which allows debates on homosexuality. Furthermore, whatever you think about homosexuality- whether you think it's a sin, whether you think 'homosexual acts' are sinful, or whether you think there's nothing wrong with being homosexual, we are called to love them. Fine, you can disagree with what they do, but we are called to love them.

 

[IamRedeemed]

Dear Pogue,

.........And I am loving them by obeying the Word and our charge as stewards and I am loving strangers who may read these posts, and might stumble and fall into a trap that do not know the Word of Truth and may believe false doctrine, heresy or words of apostacy by those who post them in the name of Jesus.

"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." 2 Timothy 4:2-4

I'm not saying that you shouldn't speak out against wrongdoing- not at all. Quite the opposite, in fact. But you can love somebody while criticising their behaviour. I have no doubt that Paul did love the people he was speaking out against, and was not breaking any commandments.

You agreed that Paul was doing right and did not break the Second Commandment in 1 Corinthians Chapter 5.

So, why are you continuing to condemn what I'm saying, and the Word of God that I am sharing and making a false judgment of my ministry and intent claiming that I have not love for them, but what Paul has said in his ministry, you say you 'have no doubt that he was loving them' while commanding that they be 'thrown out of the Church, turned over to satan and charged the members to not even eat with them as they are wicked'?

I don't believe you are being sincere when you say you wouldn't condemn Paul for what he preached.

Here is what Paul said again, so you don't have to turn back between that page and this one.

1 Corinthians Chapter 5

"It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."