why are we responsible for original sin?

[rainycity]

Why are we guilty of original sin from the moment we're born? Do we exist before we are born, and we choose to be born into this world?
What is the reason for every individual being responsible for the sin of adam and eve?

 

[Quasicentennial]

Like everyone else who wants to ask this question, the answer has to come from God in person, once we have accepted Christ to get to heaven. Refuse acceptance of Jesus and you would be locked outside the city walls of God's kingdom. It's like having a ticket to enter a cinema to watch a movie. If I was God I would allow the curse to affect everyone, to learn from the experiences of sin in real life instead of virtual reality through computer digital goggles and surround sound headphones. That way, people can understand the pain of suffering that sin offers without asking God so many confusing questions about sin without feeling it.

 

[drich0150]

Why are we guilty of original sin from the moment we're born? Do we exist before we are born, and we choose to be born into this world?
What is the reason for every individual being responsible for the sin of adam and eve?

I think responsible is the wrong word. Perhaps the fact that we benefit from it is a better fit. We benefit from the Original sin.

Being born with the knowledge of Good and evil (Or to know right from wrong) places us in a unique state. It separate us apart from all of God's creation. It makes us accountable for our actions. to which, if we so choose we can find forgiveness for that sin.

It gives us the option to choose where we wish to spend eternity.

 

[rainycity]

Like everyone else who wants to ask this question, the answer has to come from God in person, once we have accepted Christ to get to heaven. Refuse acceptance of Jesus and you would be locked outside the city walls of God's kingdom. It's like having a ticket to enter a cinema to watch a movie. If I was God I would allow the curse to affect everyone, to learn from the experiences of sin in real life instead of virtual reality through computer digital goggles and surround sound headphones. That way, people can understand the pain of suffering that sin offers without asking God so many confusing questions about sin without feeling it.

how exactly would people know about sin if they didn't experience it? and are you saying that God makes everyone experience sin and suffering so we won't ask him confusing questions about it? can an omniscient God get confused?

 

[rainycity]

I think responsible is the wrong word. Perhaps the fact that we benefit from it is a better fit. We benefit from the Original sin.

we benefit from it? isn't it the entire point of christianity that sin destroys us and jesus saves us from that destruction?

Being born with the knowledge of Good and evil (Or to know right from wrong) places us in a unique state. It separate us apart from all of God's creation. It makes us accountable for our actions. to which, if we so choose we can find forgiveness for that sin.

but wasn't it adam and eve's choice to gain knowledge of good and evil, and thats precisely what condemned them? why do we need to be accountable for our actions, don't we only need to be held accountable for our sins? and God supposedly created adam and eve in a perfect state, which they violated by gaining the knowledge of good and evil....

It gives us the option to choose where we wish to spend eternity.

but didn't God create adam and eve without that option, which was a perfect state? but they were given a choice anyway, to eat the fruit, so how can you say their free will only comes about after they eat it?

 

[Van]

Hi Rainycity, are we guilty of original sin? Is there a Bible verse that suggests such a thing? Or is this another false charge against Christianity? I think the Bible says Adam was guilty of original sin, and the consequence of his sin is that all mankind was made sinners. If someone throws mud on you, are you guilty of making yourself muddy? Of course not.

Do we exist before we are born? Well we do not exist before we are conceived in iniquity. But we certainly exist in the womb.

Do we choose to be born (conceived)? Nope

What is the reason for every person to be "responsible" for the sin of Adam and Eve. First, lets leave Eve out of this, for it was Adam alone who committed original sin, Eve was deceived. Second, is there a Bible verse that suggests every individual is "responsible" for Adam's sin? Nope. So what prompted the question?

Lets go over the Biblical facts one more time. Adam and Eve were not created as sinners, they were not in a "separated from God" sinful state. They were with God in the garden. Satan deceived Eve and Eve tempted Adam, and Adam choose to go against God's word not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Thus Adam sinned, and as a consequence was tossed out of the garden, he was "separated" from God (as was Eve as a consequence of Adam's sin) and thus was made a "sinner" (someone in a separated from God sinful state.) Thus their children were conceived and born outside of the garden, also in a separated from God sinful state. Secondly, their human spirit is corrupted (as though muddied by Adam's sin) so we are predisposed to sin. This is taught when the Bible says that after Adam ate, then "their eyes were opened." So when Eve ate, her eyes were not opened, for she had not sinned by knowingly going against God's word, but when Adam sinned, then as a consequence, both of them had their eyes opened. So the corruption of mankind is not spread physically, like a genetic disorder, but spiritually.

 

[drich0150]

we benefit from it? isn't it the entire point of christianity that sin destroys us and jesus saves us from that destruction?

Perhaps from a corporate worship point of view.

In actuality Sin simply put, is anything not in the expressed will of God.

Evil, is malicious intent to commit sin.

Not all sin is evil, but all evil is sin.

All sin evil or not, equates to death.

Free will (or the knowledge of good and evil and the freedom to act how we see fit) is the ability to choose something not in the expressed will of God. (the ability To sin) So why free will?

We have been blessed with free will so that we can choose whether or not to be with God. Meaning we have been given a choice, but in order for our choice to count we must have some options to choose from, (Our will or that of God)and from those choices there must be consequences. (death) So, Enter Jesus and His sacrifice.. Because when we choose our will over that of God even once, it places in a position not to be worthy of God, let alone to be with Him.. Jesus's blood remedies all of that.. It erases all of the bad choices we make, and reinforces the one that allows us to be with God.

but didn't God create adam and eve without that option, which was a perfect state? but they were given a choice anyway, to eat the fruit, so how can you say their free will only comes about after they eat it?

The free will Adam and eve experienced while in the Garden was that of a child, after the fruit, their knowledge of good and evil increased, (That's why they covered themselves) and then they were placed in a position of complete response ability for all of their actions. And subsequently everyone after them also benefited from this knowledge.

 

[Christos Anesti]

deleted

 

[heymikey80]

Why are we guilty of original sin from the moment we're born?

A great question. There're whole books about this, e.g., "the Imputation of Adam's Sin". As concisely as I can say it: it's the inheritance. Like other things your parents may leave to you when they die, it's because you're part of a family. This is one of those things we've inherited: a relationship of enmity with God.

It's also somewhat inherited into our nature. Original sin is not so much the action of doing a sin, that's not what we've inherited; it's the innate corruption we've inherited from Adam disowning our whole dependence on God and striking off in our own direction, with our own limitations, without God.

Christ Jesus changes that -- He sets up a way to be adopted into a relationship with God as our Father.

Do we exist before we are born, and we choose to be born into this world?

Not as far as I can tell from Scripture. But then, doesn't that mean our existence is really at the discretion of another? So its disposition could well be due to another as well.

Much of this is derived from Rom 5:12-21. It's a tough set of verses, but it means to say something to us.

 

[seashale76]

Why are we guilty of original sin from the moment we're born? Do we exist before we are born, and we choose to be born into this world?
What is the reason for every individual being responsible for the sin of adam and eve?

I'm sure I'll mess up the explanation here, but I'll try anyway:

This Augustinian notion is completely absent from Orthodox Christianity. The only people responsible for Original Sin are those who committed the sin. We only experience the consequence of their sin (death), not their guilt. We prefer the term ancestral sin. This is removed at one's baptism. We thoroughly reject the notion of human nature as being one of total depravity.

When sin entered the world, it corrupted creation through death. Through Christ, creation was restored. We have a way to theosis. It has been speculated that even if sin had never entered the world, we would still have had the need of Christ, as Adam was not yet in a state of theosis.

 

[rainycity]

if we are not responsible for original sin why are we guilty? why do we suffer the consequences? and why do we still die even after our sins are atoned for?

 

[Bible2]

why are we responsible for original sin?

Original sin (Romans 5:18a,19a) could have a genetic basis, in that we were genetically in "the loins" of Adam when he sinned, so that we in effect also sinned when Adam sinned because we were genetically part of Adam when he sinned, just as Levi in effect paid tithes to Melchizedek because Levi was genetically in "the loins" of Abraham when Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek (Hebrews 7:9-10).

But original sin becomes superfluous with regard to our guiltiness before God in that we have all as individuals in our own bodies committed our own sins by our own free will (Romans 3:23, 3:9-12).

 

[Bible2]

why do we still die even after our sins are atoned for?

Even though our sins have been atoned for by the sacrifice of Jesus (1 John 2:2), we still await the redemption of our bodies (Romans 8:23-25) into sinless, immortal bodies at the resurrection and changing of Christians at the second coming of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53).

 

[rainycity]

Original sin (Romans 5:18a,19a) could have a genetic basis, in that we were genetically in "the loins" of Adam when he sinned, so that we in effect also sinned when Adam sinned because we were genetically part of Adam when he sinned, just as Levi in effect paid tithes to Melchizedek because Levi was genetically in "the loins" of Abraham when Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek (Hebrews 7:9-10).

But when we were part of adam, we were just genes and not beings. You can't really say we were actually a part of him, because we didn't exist then, our genes just come from him (assuming for the argument he was real which I don't believe). If 'we' truly were a part of adam we had no consciousness so could not make decisions. Aren't our souls created by god and our genes are just some information that determine the bodies our souls inhabit?

But original sin becomes superfluous with regard to our guiltiness before God in that we have all as individuals in our own bodies committed our own sins by our own free will (Romans 3:23, 3:9-12).

So we are not guilty of any sin when we are born and when we are babies?
In the 'Why do Christians worship their God?' thread bsd31 said:

Number one no one is innocent. No matter how young or old they are. We're all steeped in sin, born into rebellion against God. So forget this notion you have about innocence. It doesn't exist.

in a discussion about why yahweh killed babies and children in the old testament.

 

[Bible2]

You can't really say we were actually a part of him

We were actually genetically a part of Adam when he sinned, just as Levi was actually genetically a part of Abraham when Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek (Hebrews 7:9-10).

If 'we' truly were a part of adam we had no consciousness so could not make decisions.

A conscious decision by each individual is not required for original sin (Romans 5:18a,19a).

So we are not guilty of any sin when we are born and when we are babies?

Because of original sin, we are guilty as individuals as soon as we are conceived as individuals in the womb (Psalms 51:5, Psalms 58:3). But original sin is not our only guilt because after we are born, during our lives we have all consciously decided to commit our own sins (Romans 3:23, 3:9-12).

 

[seashale76]

if we are not responsible for original sin why are we guilty? why do we suffer the consequences? and why do we still die even after our sins are atoned for?

You aren't guilty. Death entered the world and all of creation was affected. Only through Christ can we have life. Only in Christ's Holy Church, the ark of our salvation, can we all be saved (corporate). This life IS death.

 

[ebia]

Why are we guilty of original sin from the moment we're born? Do we exist before we are born, and we choose to be born into this world?
What is the reason for every individual being responsible for the sin of adam and eve?

I would put it the other way around - the story of Adam and Eve is a narrative that tells the truth of all human behaviour.

 

[Joveia]

One explanation I like is that there are two sorts of free will you can have. In the first kind, which humans had before the Fall, God 'protected' our free will. God 'protected our free will' so that we always saw things and people from His perspective rather than our own. This effectively prevented sin. But you could choose to 'opt out' and reject God's protection. In the second kind, which people had after the Fall, the 'default state' was to see good and evil from our own perspective, and we can be good or evil in every choice. Because we have so many choices and we're not perfectly honest we all see good and evil in a way that allows us to sin, in the second kind of free will.

But why can't we start off with the first kind? I think everyone in the world would have chosen to explore the idea of knowing good and evil for themselves if they had started off in the Garden, because we just didn't know how bad sin is. So God skipped the process of having everyone experience a Fall in order to more effectively save people through Jesus Christ (Rom 11:32 might support this view).

 

[MLEN]

Hi guys,

About the tendencies (good or bad traits) that may be passed on from generation to generation....

When I was born my mother sent me to live with a great aunt overseas for a long while. Although I did not spend some of my most formative years with with my mom, there are some qualities (good and bad) that we share to the tee. I know I picked them up genetically because I just wasn't around her to have have learned them from her.

On the other hand, living with my great aunt I picked up some of her good and bad tendencies. I was certainly with her long enough to have learned them from her.


Therefore, traits may be genetic or nurtured. And are more than likely a combination of both.

We are definitely born with genetically inherited tendencies to sin. In addition, we even pick up some cultivated tendencies to sin from the example of the lives of those who rear us.

 

[rainycity]

We were actually genetically a part of Adam when he sinned, just as Levi was actually genetically a part of Abraham when Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek (Hebrews 7:9-10).

'we' did not exist when adam was alive. If he is the common ancestor of all human beings, we simply share some common genetic material which determines things about our bodies and certain predispositions of our personalities. We're all separate beings from adam obviously and if christians believe that we are souls created by God before our births, we certainly didn't exist in adam's lifetime and genes aren't the sum of our existance, just some codes which determine things about our bodies which our souls inhabit.

A conscious decision by each individual is not required for original sin (Romans 5:18a,19a).

ah so we are NOT responsible for original sin at all, yet we are held guilty for it.

Because of original sin, we are guilty as individuals as soon as we are conceived as individuals in the womb (Psalms 51:5, Psalms 58:3).

For something which we never did. God creates us and then sends us into a womb, and then we are held responsible for something somebody else did for being born from that womb?

But original sin is not our only guilt because after we are born, during our lives we have all consciously decided to commit our own sins (Romans 3:23, 3:9-12).

So are we guilty when we are babies who are unable to make choices at all?

Not as far as I can tell from Scripture. But then, doesn't that mean our existence is really at the discretion of another? So its disposition could well be due to another as well.

so our existance is at the discretion of God, our DISPOSITION is due to our parents, but that is a disposition, why should we be held guilty for that?
Children can suffer from disorders because of their parents' genes, or they can be born into a bad home which their parents made, or they can be born into poverty, which is tragic, but it is NOT the responsibility of the child. Would you hold a baby guilty for a crime its father did?

I can accept that we inherit a disposition and we are responsible for the choices we make which might be influenced by that disposition but we cannot be held responsible just for being born.

Even babies are sinful (Psalms 58:3, Psalms 51:5). And as the Creator of all babies, God has the right to decide what to do with them, even before they are born (Romans 9:11-24).