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If you can find it I tried to answer that very question. I still can’t figure out how to use all the things on this site. I hope you are better but I did write what I think is a possibility
Yea it does say that but we’re does it say that can only be done in the mortal body why can’t people do that after death of this body just like all the OT people had to do. Unless they got to heaven by a different pathOh, I thought because scripture says
"if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
and also that
"every tongue will acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
that, therefore, everyone will be saved. But perhaps there's something wrong with my logic and and your "common sense" interpretation is right.
Anyway, all this is off topic so I'm going to leave it at that.
Yea it does say that but we’re does it say that can only be done in the mortal body why can’t people do that after death of this body just like all the OT people had to do. Unless they got to heaven by a different path
It’s not a matter of ignoring verses it’s more of a matter of our understanding those verses and often time we get the wrong understanding because we either read only the English words and never look into the original
No we do not change the meaning of death, we take Jesus at his word when he says the last enemy to be conquered is death. If one person remains in the lake of fire death is not conquered it goes on for eternity? How is death conquered if it never ends?No, that's not true, UR actually changes the meanings of even the original words like -death.
UR doesn't believe the second death really means death.
Greek word 2288 thanatos, death, deadly, death. If death doesn't really mean death, what else can be changed?
There are other words to describe redemptive measures and that's not one of them. And to use verses when God tries somebody in their lifetime symbolic of refining them through fire is not the same thing as the Lake of Fire prepared for Satan and his. To even claim it's the same thing is totally off the mark. Again our Father tests and tries his elect through their lifetime, not after Judgement day.
For example -
Zechariah 13:8 "And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein."
Zechariah 13:9 "And I will bring a third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God."
Anyone can pull verses out of context to prove anything. The above verse was quoted to me from someone on this board promoting UR- but of course left out verse 13:8.
We have to keep things in context.
So if taking the word death back to the Greek? What is your definition?
Greek word 2288 thanatos, death, deadly, death. If death doesn't really mean death, what else can be changed?
If one person remains in the lake of fire death is not conquered it goes on for eternity? How is death conquered if it never ends?
but we know the first one is not destruction/end,
That's the entire point of Christ's teaching in Matthew 10:28 where he describes the death of both body and "soul". We are not to fear the first death (flesh) but we are certainly to fear one that can destroy both body and soul.
Yes those who take part in the first resurrection are blessed we get to be part of Jesus family we will rule and rein with him ,he even says we will sit with him on his throne. No one else gets that reward. Not even the OT followers of God they get a promise land a heavenly home. And yes it is the death of the soul that is why scripture tells us God can separate even soul from spirit those people live on in spirit but every thing that they made of themselves dies and that is a permanent judgement they never get it back. We are made in the image of God we have a spirit that never dies, our body dies (unless we are alive at the second coming) our soul can die but our spirit lives forever.No one remains in the Lake of Fire. That's what the second death means. It's the death of the soul which goes hand in hand with Christ's teaching in Matthew 10:28. The smoke rises forever but anyone thrown in will be turned to ashes from within. That's what a fire does.
Christ also states that those who take part in the first resurrection are blessed because the power of the second death will not fall on them. And yet you're saying the second death has no power regardless. A complete contradiction to Christ's words.
What is your position? Annihilation
I know for myself If UR were not true then that would be the only option ECT is notYes, it is. I was taught ECT at a young age but the scriptures tell me that death actually means death. Destroy when taken back to the Greek says to me that it's a complete destruction.
Yes those who take part in the first resurrection are blessed we get to be part of Jesus family we will rule and rein with him ,he even says we will sit with him on his throne. No one else gets that reward. Not even the OT followers of God they get a promise land a heavenly home. And yes it is the death of the soul that is why scripture tells us God can separate even soul from spirit those people live on in spirit but every thing that they made of themselves dies and that is a permanent judgement they never get it back. We are made in the image of God we have a spirit that never dies, our body dies (unless we are alive at the second coming) our soul can die but our spirit lives forever.
I know for myself If UR were not true then that would be the only option ECT is not
Yes, it is. I was taught ECT at a young age but the scriptures tell me that death actually means death. Destroy when taken back to the Greek says to me that it's a complete destruction.
I think the more varied voices in this discussion the better it is. May God bless you. I like to give ECT hell, myself.
I do believe we are triune people we have a body a soul and a spirit, we know the body dies(unless we are Christian at the second coming) we also know that those who do not follow God while in the mortal body there soul dies but never have I read that our spirit dies. All to often do people think that our time on earth is all there is but it’s just the beginning what we do here is only a test for eternity. Will we be part of Gods kingdom or will we be subjects of that kingdom.But believing as you do you don't think anyone "ultimately" perishes and that's not what the word states. In fact it's quite the opposite.
To me, it's our Father blotting out everyone that doesn't want to spend the eternity with him. Some don't.
Not everyone who says to Me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of Heaven only those who do the will of My Father may enter.
He who blasphemes the Spirit will never be forgiven.
My NAS bible has margin notes saying that 'the man' who would have been better off if he wasn't born was JESUS, not Judas. And, once again the YLT better reveals that 'truth', I believe.but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.
I agree totally. Now we must be about the business of seeing who washed our brains, to begin with. I, for one have released a lot of 'false doctrine' taught as 'the truth'. Some of it came from lies when I was born/raised a Catholic, some of it was lies when I became a Lutheran for 2 years after I had actually been born again and Holy Spirit baptized, other errors came from general theologies believed by most of the '666 denominations' (sic) the devil has birthed into existence with 2 millennia of church divisiveness.How the word of God sits with a person is the root of the problem. Truth isn’t subjective to interpretation it remains a constant despite interpretation. People can’t change the truth by ignoring verses no matter how appealing it might seem to them.
The only reason they don’t want to spend eternity with him is because sin has so clouded there judgement that they can’t see Gods love once that is burned away in the lake of fire they will see the love of God, just like we did , and no one can resist that love forever. God never gives up on his creation. What makes us so special that what we see in Gods love while in the body , no one else can see it also. We keep thinking that the here and now is all there is to God the whole thing is one big story he has made and this time on earth is just one chapter in a incredible story of a loving God who loves his creation and has a plan to restore it all. Isn’t our God wonderful.But believing as you do you don't think anyone "ultimately" perishes and that's not what the word states. In fact it's quite the opposite.
To me, it's our Father blotting out everyone that doesn't want to spend the eternity with him. Some don't.
Pride. Those with pride won’t change. Satan is incapable of change.Why is it so hard to believe that a all loving all powerful God could not possibly win over someone as hitler? Or even satan himself someday I don’t find that hard to do with a God of the impossible, kind of like what Jesus said with man it is impossible but with God all things are possible. (sorry I threw in that nasty word ALL)
Pride. Those with pride won’t change. Satan is incapable of change.
God never forces himself on anyone.
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